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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: nismyname on Monday 15 March 21 15:01 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for help with my family tree. David Fitzgerald is the head of family, who was born approx. 1871 from Newmarket. He married Margaret Lane in 1895 from Tralee Kerry. He died in 1944 Glenamuckla Newmarket. Margaret was born in 1876 and died in 1959 Glenamuckla.
The 22 children are:
*** this list has been updated as much as I can in page 2 for clarifying some of the dates***
Catherine born 2nd March 1895. She died in Wales in 1974
Timothy born 1896- died in Missouri USA 1931
Michael born 1896- died in Missouri USA 1964
Thomas born 1898-
Richard (Dick) born 1898- died in Ireland (do not know where) 1968
John born 1900- died in 1983 in Michigan
Jeremiah born 1904- died in Missouri 1984
David born 1905- died in Missouri 1959
Margaret born 1906-
Mary (Molly) born 1908- died Mayo don't know what year
Nora born 1910-
Bridie born 1911 (this is my great grandmother)- I have just found her marriage certificate. She married John Murphy in 1931, John was from Kisheam. Bridie was from Glenamuckla. Johns dad was John Murphy and Bridies dad David Fitzgerald. According to the marriage cert David was a Sailor. Bridie had 4 children from her marriage to John Murphy. After Johns death (dont know when) she remarried and had more children.
Nellie born 1913- died in 2005 in Lyre Cork
Patrick born 1919-
Cornelius born 1920-
Lilly born 1922- died in 1938
Dennie born don't know
Nonie born don't know
Dannie born don't know
Jack who went to St. Louis, don't know when he was born
Hannah died in 1954 in Newmarket
Julie Ann- don't know anymore details
Some of the dates provided may be wrong by a year or 2 and likewise for the months.
Would really appreciate if anybody can help me. I know its a big family to try and track down but would be very thankful for any details. Thank you to anyone that can help.
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Margaret Lane could not have been born 1895 if that is the year she married David? David appears to have been born later than 1866 given his age on the 1901/1911 census
David was a Tailor - not a sailor
Also - Are you sure Margaret gave birth to 3 more children sometime after 1922 as the 1901/1911 census gives her birthyear 1876. Not impossible - just a bit less likely
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Clonfert_East/Taut_More/1118104/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Barnacurra/Glennamucklagh_West/420352/
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Sorry my mistake. I have a record of Margaret being born in 1876 Cnocane, Kerry. I’ve looked at those Cenus records, in 1911 it says that they had 13 children born and 13 children were still living at that point. I don’t know who the other 2 children are as Bridget was born (1st Sept 1911) after the data of completion of the census (April)
And according to the information I have Lily was born 1922. After Lily there was 5 children born which I’m pretty sure is correct.
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Have you found the birth registrations of Margaret and all the children born up to 1920 on your list on Irish Genealogy.ie website? https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ It has birth registrations 1864 (start of civil registration of births) -1920. If David was born after 1864 his birth may be on it, although not all babies were registered in the early years.
Were David and Margaret married in Ireland? If yes, you should be able to see their marriage registration on the same website and get names of their fathers from it. Once you have father's names you can look up birth registrations of David and Margaret and also look for death registrations of the fathers and hopefully get more information from them.
Have you found baptisms for David, Margaret and their children?
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I have a record of Margaret being born in 1876 Cnocane, Kerry.
Can you post a link to that record? At her marriage she was 'of full age' meaning that she was 21 or over, so born 1874 or before.
Her marriage-
David FITZGERALD married Margaret LANE on 9th January 1895 in Brosna RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10522/5832548.pdf
KG
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Margaret's father, Michael Lane and she's living in Knockanecrough (sic).This might be her parents in the 1901 census.....Knockafreaghaun.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Gneeves/Enockafreaghaun/1426646/
https://www.townlands.ie/kerry/trughanacmy/brosna/gneeves/knockafreaghaun/
KG
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I do not sorry it is just something I was told. Although I think that neither of those dates provided for the parents are correct because of the census. The marriage certificate is correct as on David and Margaret’s birth certificate of Timothy, David’s dad was present and was called Timothy.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/transcript-civil/bd204a10047358?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fdetails-civil%2Fbd204a10047358%3Fb%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%252Fchurchrecords%252Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%253Fnamefm%253DTimothy%2526namel%253DFitzgerald%2526location%253D%2526yyfrom%253D1896%2526yyto%253D1896%2526type%253DB%2526submit%253DSearch
I have not found either Denis or Margaret’s birth Certificates yet on the website
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I have found all these childrens birth certificates:
Timothy, Richard, John, Jeremiah, Margaret (daughter), Bridget, Ellen (Nellie), have found a Julia in 1914 1st Oct which I didn’t know about, Daniel, Cornelius, Patrick, Catherine, Michael, Thomas.
Apologies I’m not very good on this site my replies may be all over the place
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And the parents house of Margaret’s might actually be hers. Her siblings names are also her own children’s names which is a common thing to do, thank you
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/transcript-civil/bd204a10047358?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fdetails-civil%2Fbd204a10047358%3Fb%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%252Fchurchrecords%252Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%253Fnamefm%253DTimothy%2526namel%253DFitzgerald%2526location%253D%2526yyfrom%253D1896%2526yyto%253D1896%2526type%253DB%2526submit%253DSearch
Perhaps it might be useful to use the RootsChat shrinklink for that very long link.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/
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I’ve looked at those Cenus records, in 1911 it says that they had 13 children born and 13 children were still living at that point. I don’t know who the other 2 children are as Bridget was born (1st Sept 1911) after the data of completion of the census (April)
2 eldest children on your list, Catherine and Timothy were not in the household on either census. Michael was eldest child present in 1911. He and John were the only 2 children present with their parents in 1901 & 1911.
I don't see 2 children who were on 1911 census, Hannah aged 6 and Dennis aged 4, on your list.
Some ages on census don't correspond with birth year on your list.
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Sorry about the long link. This is a short link of the birth of Timothy which shows Denis’ dad was called Timothy as well:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qeu/
I will post an updated version of the births as some I previously stated are not correct.
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qev/ this is the link to the 1911 census,
David age 41
Margaret 35
Michael 14
John 11
David 8
Jeremiah 7
Hannah 6
Margaret 5
Denis 4
Mary 3
Hanoria 1
1901 census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qew/
David 30
Margaret 25
Michael 4
Thomas 3
Richard 2
John 1
(Will post births shortly)
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*updated births*
Catherine 2nd March 1895
Timothy 9th Feb 1896
Michael Jan 1897
Thomas 1898
Richard 1st Jan 1899
John 10 March 1900
Jeremiah 20 Jan 1904
David have not found but previously thought around 1905
Margaret 28 March 1906
Mary have not found but thought to be 1908
Norah have not found but thought to be 1910
Bridget 1st Sept 1911
Nellie ( Ellen) 19 Feb 1913
Julia which I think is ‘Julie Ann’ who I previously stated born 1st Oct 1914
Cornelius 12 Sept 1917
Patrick 27 Oct 1919
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Bridie born 1911 (this is my great grandmother)- I have just found her marriage certificate. She married John Murphy in 1931, John was from Kisheam. Bridie was from Glenamuckla. Johns dad was John Murphy and Bridies dad David Fitzgerald. According to the marriage cert David was a Sailor.
Here's the link to the marriage.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1931/09018/5263350.pdf
Bridie says she was 'full age' but she was only 19.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01506/1611810.pdf
Her father was a tailor. Bridie was living in Glenamuckla (sic).
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/duhallow/clonfert/barnacurra/glennamucklagh-east/
KG
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qev/ this is the link to the 1911 census,
David age 41
Margaret 35
Michael 14
John 11
David 8
Jeremiah 7
Hannah 6
Margaret 5
Denis 4
Mary 3
Hanoria 1
1901 census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qew/
David 30
Margaret 25
Michael 4
Thomas 3
Richard 2
John 1
Already posted in reply #1
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I did see that marriage certificate and thought it said Sailor so thank you for clarifying that.
I only posted the census as it’s probably easier for people to understand the children’s different ages and where they were.
Could anybody help me find John Murphy, Bridget’s husbands birth certificate as he may have been born out of wedlock, if that makes a difference. I believe he was born in 1880+ year unknown MillStreet Kiskean.
And also can anybody help me find further information on David’s 22 children as the only information I have is their births.
Thank you all I do appreciate the help
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Norah have not found but thought to be 1910
Nora FITZGERALD - 25th February 1910 #303
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01565/1631732.pdf
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Thank you, have you got any idea on the other children born as well as David Murphy.
Are you able to find where Catherine and Timothy were in both the 1901 and 1911 census as neither were present at the family home.
Thank you again
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Thanks everyone for your help today. I have found John Murphy who was born into a Kanturk workhouse 23/05/83 DOB. Would the workhouse have records? His mother was Johanna Murphy. I can’t find anything on her but I don’t think she married if anyone can look into this. What ages/ how long would people stay in workhouses?
Does anyone know how I can work out the rest of the family tree (the 22 children) and if I can access American records?
Thank you all
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*updated births*
John 10 March 1900
Jeremiah 20 Jan 1904
David have not found but previously thought around 1905
Margaret 28 March 1906
David was probably born c.1903, taking into account his age and that he was placed between John and Jeremiah on 1911 census, and that your list of birth years has a gap of 4 years between John, March 1900 and Jeremiah, Jan. 1904.
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David was probably born c.1903, taking into account his age and that he was placed between John and Jeremiah on 1911 census, and that your list of birth years has a gap of 4 years between John, March 1900 and Jeremiah, Jan. 1904.
Good spot, Maiden Stone :)
David FITZGERALD born 27th September 1902
Mother's Birth Surname: transcribed LAW
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01884/1732832.pdf
KG
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Thanks everyone for your help today. I have found John Murphy who was born into a Kanturk workhouse 23/05/83 DOB. Would the workhouse have records? His mother was Johanna Murphy. I can’t find anything on her but I don’t think she married if anyone can look into this. What ages/ how long would people stay in workhouses?
Does anyone know how I can work out the rest of the family tree (the 22 children) and if I can access American records?
Thank you all
A few suggestions as you are new to Irish family history research:
A useful introduction is a website Irish Genealogy Toolkit.
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com
Look at the Resources section of RootsChat Ireland Board.
When doing family history research, go slowly, backwards, 1 step at a time. Double and triple check each piece of information about each person in that step before trying to go back another generation or onto another branch. Good advice is to concentrate on 1 line, go back as far as you can on that line. When you get stuck on that line or want a change, start on another line. Don't try to do too much at once.
The advice in the previous paragraph is also appropriate to RootsChat.
In answer your new questions:
There is a website about workhouses by Peter Higginbottom. Pages for each workhouse has links to record sources. If records exist they may be in national or local archives.
Regarding information about lives of the other 21 children and emigration, look at the advice on Irish Genealogy Toolkit. It has several pages on emigration, with sources. Researching 22 children is a big undertaking.
If you want help with John Murphy and workhouses, start a new topic on the Cork board. Keep this thread to the topic of the Fitzgerald family.
Hope this helps.
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David was probably born c.1903, taking into account his age and that he was placed between John and Jeremiah on 1911 census, and that your list of birth years has a gap of 4 years between John, March 1900 and Jeremiah, Jan. 1904.
Good spot, Maiden Stone :)
David FITZGERALD born 27th September 1902
Mother's Birth Surname: transcribed LAW
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01884/1732832.pdf
I added 3 pieces of evidence together. I reasoned that order of children on a census was usually correct even if ages were wrong, although some families listed boys before girls.
Did you offer an amendment to the transcription?
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Thank you for finding David’s birth certificate Maiden Stone and Kiltaglassan.
Thank you to Maiden Stone for the suggestions as well re John Murphy, I will be looking into to the workhouse and the other bits you mentioned.
In the 1911 census, David and Margaret have been married for 17 years, it states there has been 13 children born and 13 children alive. They married in 1895, I only have a record of 11 children in this time frame. Can anyone help identify the 2 other children I’m missing, this may mean there was 24 children in total not 22.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qey/
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Just for completeness these are two that are not showing on the 1911 census that we know about
Catherine born 2nd March 1895. She died in Wales in 1974
Timothy born 1896- died in Missouri USA 1931
Plus 9 on the census
=11
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This might be Timothy at the time of the 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Newmarket/New_Street/421194/
In view of the Murphy connection this might be a possibility for Catherine.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Cove_Street/397800/
Poss Catherine...age not a good match
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4/Rowlands_Lane/392953/
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Did you offer an amendment to the transcription?
Yep, an amendment in the name of LANE sent in ;D
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Just for completeness these are two that are not showing on the 1911 census that we know about
Catherine
Timothy
Plus 9 on the census
=11
Yep the 2 oldest are not in the house in either census. Do you think the parents made a mistake with writing 13 children born, 13 alive in the 1911 census? It just seems unlikely that they’d get the amount of children they had wrong as I can’t find birth certificates for any other children unless anyone else can have a look?
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In view of the Murphy connection this might be a possibility for Catherine.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Cove_Street/397800/
Poss Catherine...age not a good match
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4/Rowlands_Lane/392953/
There are other reasons why the Rowlands Lane census is unlikely to be the Catherine we seek. Birthplace was Cork City. She was a scholar aged 14. I doubt that the eldest daughter of a tailor in a large family would still have been at school aged 14.
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Not sure if you have these birth registrations.
Date of birth 20th April 1907 Denis; father's occupation tailor; date of registration 16th July
18th Oct 1908 Mary; occupation farmer
20th Feb. 1916 Daniel; father's occupation farmer
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David's occupation was tailor at birth registration of Denis 1907. His occupation was farmer at birth registrations of Mary 1908, Bridget 1911, Daniel 1916 and Cornelius 1917. He was tailor again for Patrick 1919.
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I looked for birth registrations in Kanturk district for Fitzgerald surname and Lane mother's maiden surname. 18 results 1885-1920. Another search for Fitzgerald births with Law mother's maiden surname found 4 more. (Lane has been transcribed as Law on some registrations.)
There were 5 marriages with a Fitzgerald groom and Lane bride in that period.
Daniel Fitzgerald (farmer) & Mary Lane, marriage registered in Kanturk 1897, had some children with same names and similar ages to children of David & Margaret (John, Norah, Mary, Hannah, Katie, Ellen, Julia). They seem to be the family at House 6 Croanrea, Clonfert West on 1911 census.
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Are you able to provide links or details of those transcribed as law? Do you think they are related to David and Margaret as in they’re children or is it another family or same name?
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I looked for birth registrations in Kanturk district for Fitzgerald surname and Lane mother's maiden surname. 18 results 1885-1920.
Do we know why the parents stated there was 13 children in the 1911 census? My record is 11 children
Does my record of children born 1885-1920 match yours? Would this answer my above question as to who the 2 children I do not have are
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Are you able to provide links or details of those transcribed as law? Do you think they are related to David and Margaret as in they’re children or is it another family or same name?
They are on Irish Genealogy https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
I found them by selecting "More search options" below the basic search form. I put surname Fitzgerald, ticked birth, put other surname Law and a range of years. I did 2 searches for Fitzgerald births, 1 with mother's maiden surname Lane and 1 with mother's surname Law. Total 18 birth registrations with mother's surname Lane and 4 with Law, total 22 in Kanturk district. There were more in other districts, Tralee was one I remember.
I didn't have time to look at each registration individually. Handwriting on those I viewed wasn't good, names and places were unclear, hence transcription errors for mother's maiden surname Lane/Law. David/Daniel wasn't always clear either. Daniel was Daniel W on some registrations.
I have no idea whether any of the parents were related.
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I looked for birth registrations in Kanturk district for Fitzgerald surname and Lane mother's maiden surname. 18 results 1885-1920.
Do we know why the parents stated there was 13 children in the 1911 census? My record is 11 children
Does my record of children born 1885-1920 match yours? Would this answer my above question as to who the 2 children I do not have are
When you've had time to find all the Fitzgerald/Lane and Fitzgerald/Law birth registrations by using "More search options" as described in my reply #35, would you make a list of David & Margaret's children in birth order with full dates of birth as in the registers? Post it on here and we can look at it and work out if there are gaps long enough to fit in 2 more children.
One thing I noticed was that there were long gaps between some births and their registration.
Early births in 1880's probably belong to another Fitzgerald & Lane couple, perhaps James & Mary
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Catherine 2nd March 1895
Timothy 9th Feb 1896
Michael 7th Jan 1897
Thomas 27th Jan 1898 (can somebody check this as I cant read the birth cert well)
Richard 1st Jan 1899
John 10th March 1900
David 27th Sept 1902
Jeremiah 20th Jan 1904
Margaret 28th March 1906
Denis 20th April 1907
Mary 18th Oct 1908
Nora 25th Feb 1910
Bridget 1st Sept 1911
Ellen 19th Feb 1913
Julia 1st Oct 1914
Daniel 20th Feb 1916
Cornelius 12th Sept 1917
Patrick 27th Oct 1919
Lilly is born in 1922, she died in 1938 at age 16, have found her death cert
David, Mary, and Denis mothers surname was transcribed as Law not Lane, have offered an amendment
In the 1911 census there is a Hannah in the house who I have been unable to find her birth cert, she was 6 in 1911 so would be born 1905ish (this would mean I have the 13 children who were born by the time of the 1911 census).
In my first post I said there was after Lily: Dennie, Nonie, Dannie, Jack, Hannah and Julie- Ann.
Hannah is born around 1905, Julie- Ann I think is "Julia", Dennie I think is "Denis", and Dannie I think is "David".
There is definitely 20 children born (Lily and Hannah). Therefore, I think the 2 children remaining to make the 22 are "Nonie" and "Jack" unless anyone can find their birth certs or if David and Margaret (parents) had any other children in this time frame I have not been able to find.
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Michael 17th Jan 1897 (can somebody check this as I cant read the birth cert well)
Looks like 'seventh' January
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HI GUYS. I am mollys granddaughter. Molly moved to mayo and married Michael farrell. They had 6 children. I went to glennamucklagh 3 years ago and visited where all the 20 children were born and got some lovely pictures. Woukd love to get in contact and get some of the info you have and share mine.
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Welcome to RootsChat, loughney.
Does your list of 20 children match those on here?
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Welcome from me also :)
The OP (nismyname) was online here last month, so if their e-mail notifications are working, they should pick this up and be able to respond. Just make at least one more post, so that you can use the PM (Personal Message) system to be able to communicate privately with nismyname.
KG
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Hi. Yes this is definitely the correct family.. I have got details on a lot of these names. My granny was molly. She was in USA and moved to Ireland. I spoke to Mike fitzgerald yesterday. He's dad was nelius. Nonie came to visit us many a time in mayo . She married Ned browne.
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Hi. Woykd u be able to send on certs that you have for births etc or advise me as yo how I coukd get them if u let me know how I can send on pictures I have I will that.
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Hi, I am a Granddaughter of Daniel Fitzgerald from Glenamuckla. My Granddad was Dan and he was married to Kathleen (Healy). They lived in the home place in Glenamuckla. My Great Grandmother (Margaret Lane) lived in Brosna. Mike Fitzgerald (his Dad was Neilis) is my Dad's first Cousin. I am married and live in Killarney, Co. Kerry in Ireland. There was a Fitzgerald Family Reunion locally a few years ago but I was not able to be there as I had just had a baby. We met our Cousin Debbie Noelke (living in America) in Killarney a few years ago.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
My Granddad was Dan and he was married to Kathleen (Healy). They lived in the home place in Glenamuckla.
So this presumably was the marriage of your grandparents.
28th December 1940 at Kingwilliamstown RC church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1941/08818/5188306.pdf
Your grandmother Catherine Healy looks to be living in Knockinabaul?, Kingwilliamstown. Is that Patrick Fitzgerald (as a witness) a younger brother of your grandfather?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5727130#map=14/52.1865/-9.2328
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Your grandmother Catherine Healy looks to be living in Knockinabaul?, Kingwilliamstown.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5727130#map=14/52.1865/-9.2328
Knocknaboul townland (Ballincuslane civil parish) is on the Cork/Kerry border but in Co Kerry. East of it is Kingwilliamstown.
https://www.townlands.ie/kerry/trughanacmy/ballincuslane/millbrook/knocknaboul/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6321547#map=13/52.1855/-9.2343
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
My Granddad was Dan and he was married to Kathleen (Healy). They lived in the home place in Glenamuckla.
So this presumably was the marriage of your grandparents.
28th December 1940 at Kingwilliamstown RC church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1941/08818/5188306.pdf
Your grandmother Catherine Healy looks to be living in Knockinabaul?, Kingwilliamstown. Is that Patrick Fitzgerald (as a witness) a younger brother of your grandfather?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5727130#map=14/52.1865/-9.2328
Wow! That's my Nan and Grandad's marriage cert. :) My Nan's anniversary is in a couple of days: 5th April. She passed away in 2010. She was 90 years old. She was originally from Knocknaboul in Ballydesmond (originally known as Kingwilliamstown). I grew up in Knocknaboul and my Uncle Michael (and his wife Ellen) live on the original site where my Nan was from. My uncle Davy is living in Glenamuckla where my Nan & Grandad's marital home was. My Nan said some of Grandad's family visited her once.
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Hello Everyone - I'm a bit late to this thread so I'm not sure whether you're all still there!? I've been looking into this family and trying to link it up with my great grandad, Jeremiah Fitzgerald, b1868 in Glennamuckla to Garrett/Gerald F and Johanna Scannell. I have DNA matches here and there and other births and deaths in the surrounding area and would love to know if any of you are on Ancestry or other. Hope to hear back! (I'm a newbie so hope I'm doing it right!)