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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Calpe 1704 on Thursday 06 May 21 16:06 BST (UK)
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Looking for advise and help in trying to find information/facts about the son of Sir George Rooke (1650-1709).
Sir George Rooke (1650-1709), was Admiral of the Fleet.
What I am looking for is information of the son George Rooke (1702-1739).
The only thing i have found (very surprising for a son of an Admiral of the Fleet) is a small mention in 'Memoirs of Laetitia Pilkington, Vol.II, 1749'
Quote from page 129 -
'....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
An apoplectic fit, also known as apoplexy, refers to a sudden neurological impairment often resulting from a brain haemorrhage or stroke.
Might there be a way of sourcing an actual document or text that specifies the cause of death?
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Very doubtful given the year of death. How is he connected to your FH?
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Hi,
Derby Mercury, VVYS letter from London 1sr December 1739
On Wednesday last the corpse of George Rooke Esq., only son of Sir George Rooke, Knt. Deceased,
Interred st. Michaels Chapel, Canterbury Cathedral. Under fine monument erected for Sir George.
Then tells you about the inscription on the monument sorry too long to write.
http://www.canterbury-archaeology.org.uk/warrior/4590809738
Spendlove
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Very doubtful given the year of death. How is he connected to your FH?
Sad to hear it'll be very doubtful.
Sorry but FH is?
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Hi,
Derby Mercury, VVYS letter from London 1sr December 1739
On Wednesday last the corpse of George Rooke Esq., only son of Sir George Rooke, Knt. Deceased,
Interred st. Michaels Chapel, Canterbury Cathedral. Under fine monument erected for Sir George.
Then tells you about the inscription on the monument sorry too long to write.
http://www.canterbury-archaeology.org.uk/warrior/4590809738
Spendlove
Thanks for that information. Ive tried zooming in on that image to read the text, but the resolution is too low.
I really would like to see if anyone might be aware if there is an actual document/image that clearly states the cause of death.
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Hi,
This is better connection to memorial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/115781902/george-rooke
Not quite sure what info you are actually looking for, as you say you can find nothing re George Jnr.,is it just info re cause of death ?
He made his will on the 18th May 1838, his wife was Francis Ward dau of Viscount Dudley, they had
No children. He was fellow commoner Pembroke, Cambridge.
His and his Fathers are on Ancestry
Spendlove
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Hi,
This is better connection to memorial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/115781902/george-rooke
Not quite sure what info you are actually looking for, as you say you can find nothing re George Jnr.,is it just info re cause of death ?
He made his will on the 18th May 1838, his wife was Francis Ward dau of Viscount Dudley, they had
No children. He was fellow commoner Pembroke, Cambridge.
His and his Fathers are on Ancestry
Spendlove
Cheers for that all that information. Slight typo...should be 1738.
Although i quoted the apparent cause of death taken from the book i mentioned, i was hoping that maybe there might be something more official that states his cause of death.
I mean, he was the son of the Admiral of the Fleet!
I don't have access to Ancestry....
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Hi,
Date was not only error, I missed out the word ‘Wills’ from last line.
From Findmypast The Burial Register for George Jnr states
Canterbury St. Paul’s
28.11.1739
George Rooke Esq., the last of the male line of the family of the Rooke’s of St. Laurence in this parish was buried.
Son of a vice admiral or not you would be very fortunate, at such an early date, to find cause of death.
What is your interest in this family?
Spendlove
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Hi,
Date was not only error, I missed out the word ‘Wills’ from last line.
From Findmypast The Burial Register for George Jnr states
Canterbury St. Paul’s
28.11.1739
George Rooke Esq., the last of the male line of the family of the Rooke’s of St. Laurence in this parish was buried.
Son of a vice admiral or not you would be very fortunate, at such an early date, to find cause of death.
What is your interest in this family?
Spendlove
Thanks again Spendlove.
I only thought being the son of such an important person, his cause of death would have been noted somewhere.
Interest? Well, the father jointly attacked and captured Gibraltar in July 1704.
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FH = Family History
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Related thread here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=846220.0
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Related thread here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=846220.0
A thread by me but was only for the father Sir George Rooke, Admiral of the fleet.
What I would like to find is some sort of document that states the cause of George Rooke's death
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May i ask the experts if they can suggest any sources?
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Hi
Not an expert, however in London “Bills of Mortality” were produced by Parish Clerks, giving cause of death but not individual names.
You can see the figures for 1739, when 194 people died of Apoplexy/sudden death in London Parishes.
https://archive.org/details/collectionyearl00hebegoog/page/n219/mode/1up
This is a map of Bills of Mortality area
http://www.histpop.org/resources/pngs/0011/00150/00001_24bit_50.png
So you can see why you would be very fortunate to discover documentation as to cause of death. In some instances it may be noted in the parish register but not in the case of Rooke Jnr.
Spendlove
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Hi,
Not an expert, however in London “Bills of Mortality” were produced by Parish Clerks, giving cause of death but not individual names.
You can see the figures for 1739, when 194 people died of Apoplexy/sudden death in London Parishes.
https://archive.org/details/collectionyearl00hebegoog/page/n219/mode/1up
This is a map of Bills of Mortality area
http://www.histpop.org/resources/pngs/0011/00150/00001_24bit_50.png
So you can see why you would be very fortunate to discover documentation as to cause of death. In some instances it may be noted in the parish register but not in the case of Rooke Jnr.
Spendlove
Spendlove, thank you kindly for that information, i will have a look now.
I've had a look at https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk using 3 free searches and only found one entry stating that he had been buried. Nothing else.
Appears to be strange though that sudden deaths occurred and from Apoplexy.
Any known reasons?
Perhaps i'm stubborn, but being the son of such an important Admiral of the Fleet, there doesn't appear to be much information.
Cheers :)
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Hiya Calpe - I see you are online
have a look at this - no mention of a son George ?? but a son John Charles -
the tree gives Sir Georges parents and grandparents
https://gw.geneanet.org/dclanton?n=rooke&oc=&p=admiral+sir+george
https://gw.geneanet.org/wernervols?n=rooke&oc=&p=sir+william+sheriff+of+kent
ADDED
Obviously something wrong there - as Spendloves newspaper article states - George "ONLY SON " of George - so who id John Charles ? unless he died young ...
ADDED AGAIN
Do we presume this tree to be wrong ??
Family Tree Preview
Ancestry Chart Descendancy Chart Printable Family Tree
Colonel Sir William Rooke Jane Finch
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Admiral Sir George Rooke 1650-1709 Henrietta Moore 1684-1755
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John Charles Rook 1705-1781
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I think you are lucky to have even that much information at such an early date!
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Hiya Calpe - I see you are online
have a look at this - no mention of a son George ?? but a son John Charles -
the tree gives Sir Georges parents and grandparents
https://gw.geneanet.org/dclanton?n=rooke&oc=&p=admiral+sir+george
https://gw.geneanet.org/wernervols?n=rooke&oc=&p=sir+william+sheriff+of+kent
I have been checking the family tree too, before i posted here. The father Admiral of the Fleet, Sir George Rooke actually married 3 times, but had only 1 son, George. This George married, but had no children.
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Hiya Calpe - I see you are online
have a look at this - no mention of a son George ?? but a son John Charles -
the tree gives Sir Georges parents and grandparents
https://gw.geneanet.org/dclanton?n=rooke&oc=&p=admiral+sir+george
https://gw.geneanet.org/wernervols?n=rooke&oc=&p=sir+william+sheriff+of+kent
ADDED
Obviously something wrong there - as Spendloves newspaper article states - George "ONLY SON " of George - so who id John Charles ? unless he died young ...
ADDED AGAIN
Do we presume this tree to be wrong ??
Family Tree Preview
Ancestry Chart Descendancy Chart Printable Family Tree
Colonel Sir William Rooke = Jane Finch
I
Admiral Sir George Rooke 1650-1709 = Henrietta Moore 1684-1755
I
John Charles Rook 1705-1781
Thanks Garstonite for that information.
Sorry to say that the tree information is incorrect, so i won't go down that path.
What i was holding my hopes high was for some written document that states the death of George Rooke (July 1702-Nov.1739)
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I think you are lucky to have even that much information at such an early date!
That might be so, but i have done a lot of my own research.
I have been given some very interesting articles from the kind people that have replied.
As i have mentioned what i was hoping to find was some kind of written document that states the cause of George Rooke's death.
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If you have access to British Library Newspapers (usually free through your local library on-line depending on where you are) there are a number of obituaries for George ROOKE, son of the Admiral of the fleet. However, they don't provide actual details of his death, mostly just refering to the burial and inscription on the Monument. As others have said, regardless of how famous his father was, it is rare to have much detail of a son's death in that time, and the information you already have is quite considerable for the time. :)
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If you have access to British Library Newspapers (usually free through your local library on-line depending on where you are) there are a number of obituaries for George ROOKE, son of the Admiral of the fleet. However, they don't provide actual details of his death, mostly just refering to the burial and inscription on the Monument. As others have said, regardless of how famous his father was, it is rare to have much detail of a son's death in that time, and the information you already have is quite considerable for the time. :)
Thank you maddys52, for your reply, sadly, i do not have access to British Library Newspapers.
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Not quite sure what info you are actually looking for, as you say you can find nothing re George Jnr.,is it just info re cause of death ?
He made his will on the 18th May 1838, his wife was Francis Ward dau of Viscount Dudley, they had
No children.
He was young to have made a will. It suggests to me that he may have had a serious illness in May 1838 and feared he was on his deathbed. The illness might have left him with impaired health which led to his death the following year.
Wasn't apoplexy a cover-all term? Cause may have been unknown.
Did they go in much for autopsies back then? Probably not unless "foul play" was suspected.
In the case of a sudden, unexplained death, an inquest might have been held, often at an inn. The corpse would have been on display and witnesses called.
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Not quite sure what info you are actually looking for, as you say you can find nothing re George Jnr.,is it just info re cause of death ?
He made his will on the 18th May 1838, his wife was Francis Ward dau of Viscount Dudley, they had
No children.
He was young to have made a will. It suggests to me that he may have had a serious illness in May 1838 and feared he was on his deathbed. The illness might have left him with impaired health which led to his death the following year.
Wasn't apoplexy a cover-all term? Cause may have been unknown.
Did they go in much for autopsies back then? Probably not unless "foul play" was suspected.
In the case of a sudden, unexplained death, an inquest might have been held, often at an inn. The corpse would have been on display and witnesses called.
Sorry, but the year should be 1739.
Spendlove told us in an earlier post
From Findmypast The Burial Register for George Jnr states
Canterbury St. Paul’s, 28.11.1739
Maiden Stone, i have not seen anything that mentions he was ill, only in my earliest post that he woke one morning and just collapsed.
Maybe not foul play, but unexplained maybe.
In my first post of this thread i wrote: -
The only thing i have found (very surprising for a son of an Admiral of the Fleet) is a small mention in 'Memoirs of Laetitia Pilkington, Vol.II, 1749'
Quote from page 129 -
'....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
An apoplectic fit, also known as apoplexy, refers to a sudden neurological impairment often resulting from a brain haemorrhage or stroke.
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Sorry, but the year should be 1739.
Spendlove told us in an earlier post
From Findmypast The Burial Register for George Jnr states
Canterbury St. Paul’s, 28.11.1739
Maiden Stone, i have not seen anything that mentions he was ill, only in my earliest post that he woke one morning and just collapsed.
Maybe not foul play, but unexplained maybe.
Quote from page 129 -
'....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
An apoplectic fit, also known as apoplexy, refers to a sudden neurological impairment often resulting from a brain haemorrhage or stroke.
I often stray into the wrong century. Common mistake in family history. :)
Does the preamble to the will mention his state of health? All those for my ancestors begin with something like "being weak in body", even those who survived another couple of years.
What I was considering was why a comparatively young man, in the prime of life, felt it necessary to make a will. Something must have prompted his decision.
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Maiden Stone said - "I often stray into the wrong century. Common mistake in family history. :)
Does the preamble to the will mention his state of health? All those for my ancestors begin with something like "being weak in body", even those who survived another couple of years.
What I was considering was why a comparatively young man, in the prime of life, felt it necessary to make a will. Something must have prompted his decision."
Checking on this i've been looking at the National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_sd=1702&_ed=1739&_p=1700&_q=george+rooke+Will (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_sd=1702&_ed=1739&_p=1700&_q=george+rooke+Will)
Instead there are several items of George Rooke (1702-1739).
1. Catalogue description.
George con Rooke et al
Reference: PROB 28/26
Description: George con Rooke et al, Date: 1718
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3301547
2. Catalogue description
Short title: Rooke v Rooke. Document type: Bill only. Plaintiffs: George Rooke, esq
of...
Reference: C 11/1890/45, Description: Short title: Rooke v Rooke, Document type:
Bill only.
Plaintiffs: George Rooke, esq of Canterbury, Kent.
Defendants: Frances Rooke (wife of said George Rooke), John Ward and Robert Pigott.
Date of bill (or first document): 1734
Note: The naming of a party does not imply that he or she will appear in all the
documents in this cause (after the bill)
Date: 1734
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10486579
3. Catalogue description.
Will of George Rooke of Saint Lawrence Canterbury, Kent.
Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers.
Name of Register: Henchman Quire Numbers: 225-274. Will of George Rooke of Saint
Lawrence Canterbury, Kent.
Reference: PROB 11/699/199, Description: Will of George Rooke of Saint Lawrence
Canterbury, Kent.
Date: 26 November 1739
These are free to download: -
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D645238 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D645238)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D605023 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D605023)
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Can someone kindly enlighten me what are the documents No.1 and No.2 about? ;)
Having checked at the National Archives, i found these: -
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_sd=1702&_ed=1739&_p=1700&_q=george+rooke+Will
I am at a loss of what they are about.
Apart from that the Last Will & Testament of George Rooke, is dated 18th May 1738.
It's not easy to read but there is no mention of any illness etc.
He was only aged 36 years old when he wrote his Will!
Further down we can see that the Will was proved at London 26th Nov. 1739.
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Can someone kindly enlighten me what are the documents No.1 and No.2 about? ;)
Apart from that the Last Will & Testament of George Rooke, is dated 18th May 1738.
It's not easy to read but there is no mention of any illness etc.
No. 1 seems to be connected to probate or letters of administration.
No. 2. Was George having a dispute with his wife?
You can post extracts or links on the handwriting deciphering board. Some of the experts can explain legal terms. Include links to this topic and the one about George senior in your opening post. I suggest document number 1 as your first topic on the handwriting board. When that's had some replies you could start another thread for document 2, including a link to the other threads.
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Thanks to you for the interest shown.
I will look at this later today.
May i thank those that have kindly assisted.
Thread for the Will can be found here at Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849039.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849039.0)
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Looking forward to the replies from the experts
:) :)
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Facts about George Rooke. Born July 1702. Passed away Nov. 1739.
Parents were Sir George Rooke (1650 – Jan. 1709) and Mary Rooke (nee Luttrell) 1681-1702.
So George was only 8 1/2 years old when his father passed away.
George's mother died at child birth.
So who did George live with during his childhood, his father often away for long periods?
And who did George live with after his father passed away?
George married The Hon. Frances Ward, Oct. 1723, and she was apparently from a wealthy family.
Where could i look for information about the life of George Rooke?
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Facts about George Rooke. Born July 1702. Passed away Nov. 1739.
Parents were Sir George Rooke (1650 – Jan. 1709) and The Hon. Frances Ward (1700 - 1770).
So George was only 8 1/2 years old when his father passed away.
It's obviously therefore that he lived with his mother.
The mother, The Hon. Frances Ward, was apparently from a wealthy family.
I thought that Frances Ward was wife of the younger George, not his mother. (Reply #5 on this thread and a reply on your other thread about George's will.) Frances Ward 1700-1770 was only 2 years old when George the younger was born so she couldn't have been his mother.
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Maiden Stone, all corrected now in Post 30, thanks
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So George was only 8 1/2 years old when his father passed away.
George's mother died at child birth.
So who did George live with during his childhood, his father often away for long periods?
And who did George live with after his father passed away?
Young George would have lived with a relative or guardian or he may have been sent away to school. Did his father not leave a will? Some wills include instructions about care of dependent children and appoint a guardian. You said somewhere that George senior had more than 1 wife. Was there a step-mother?
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The fathers Will - Sir George Rooke (1650-1709)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D645238 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D645238)
I have not established anything about his childhood, as there doesn't appear to be a lot of information.
I don't know where he lived when he was a child nor where after his father passed away.
I'm not sure where to look. Advise would be greatly appreciated.
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Apologise to those that don't have access to the National Archives U.K.
I hereby attached Sir George Rooke's Will in which there appears to be mentioned his son George in numerous places.
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
I am looking for information as to who took care of his son.
It would be greatly appreciated is there is anyone who can decipher the writing of the Will.
The original Will is 7 pages long and too big to attach, so i've had to send it in sections, starting from page 1.
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PT II
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT III & PT IV
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT V
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT VI & VII
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT VIII
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT IX
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT X
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT XI & XII
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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PT XIII
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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Hi
I have only looked at the first page- where it states that George Jnr's guardians - until he is one and twenty-are to be William Brodnax of Godmersham, Kent and Samuel Milles of the Inner Temple, London - the latter went on to be MP for Canterbury.
Maybe one of these 2 gentlemen brought George Jnr up?
djm297 ( maiden name was Rooke -hence the interest in the name!)
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Thanks djm297.
Strange though that it says two gentlemen, William Brodnax of Godmersham, Kent and Samuel Milles of the Inner Temple, London, quite a distance between the two places.
A Guardian, though is a person who is legally responsible for the care of someone who is unable to manage their own affairs, especially a child whose parents have died.
So, George didn't then necessarily live with either of them?
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Another thread on this topic here ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849318.msg7168686
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Bookbox the thread you refer to is about the Will of Sir George Rooke (1650-1709) Admiral of the Fleet.
This thread is only about the son of Sir George Rooke - George Rooke (1702-1739), his upbringing etc.
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Samuel Milles, with an address in Inner Temple was possibly his lawyer. Do you know anything about the second wife, who I don't think was mentioned by name in the will? I can't find a likely marriage.
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Thank you Top-of-the-hill for your reply.
George Rooke's (1702-1739) father being Sir George Rooke (1650-1709).
Sir George married three times.
The first marriage was to a a Mary Howe, who i believe passed away in 1699.
The second marriage was to a Mary Luttrell (1681-1702), who died giving birth to George Rooke.
The third marriage was to Catherine Knatchbull (?-1755).
So we can see that George Rooke (1702-1739), by the time he was 6 1/2 years old had also lost his father.
So who brought him up?
Where and with whom did he live?
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in any of the threads about the George Rooke- Snr & Jnr, but Lady Catherine Rooke marries the Hon Dr Henry Moor on 26.12. 1710 at Hackington/St Stephen's Kent.
There is a newspaper report of 19.7.1729 announcing the death of Henry Moor-"eldest son of the Hon Dr Moor by Lady Rooke"....maybe George Jnr was brought up in this family?
djm297
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Hi,
Very concerned that having obtained two wills from National Archives which are their copyright, you
have attached the complete wills on this board for anyone to download.
Think you should check if you are allowed to do this, it may be infringement of copyright rules.
Spendlove
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There is a newspaper report of 19.7.1729 announcing the death of Henry Moor-"eldest son of the Hon Dr Moor by Lady Rooke"....maybe George Jnr was brought up in this family?
That would have been the obvious home for him, in my opinion. That's why I asked in a previous post if George had a stepmother.
Possible alternatives:
Living with one of the guardians.
The guardians arranging for someone to look after him.
Boarding school, perhaps staying with stepmother or one of the guardians, or another person for holidays. Was there a school for sons of naval officers? (Prince Phillip didn't have a home, he stayed with schoolfriends for holidays.)
May have been a combination of any of the above depending on George's age and circumstances.
His guardians would have made decisions about his care and maintenance, perhaps in consultation with his stepmother & her husband, taking into account wishes expressed by Sir George when he was alive.
If there was any further written mention of George's childhood it was likely to have been in letters or journals /diaries. There may have been nothing written down, everything may have been arranged by verbal agreement.
Did young George have an occupation?
My most socially exalted ancestors were yeoman farmers and business-owners. Wills of any who died leaving dependent children made the main heir (eldest son or daughter) if over 21, or the widow and/or the executors responsible for care of the children. Instructions were general and basic: sufficient food & drink, washing, education, a younger son to be apprenticed when old enough. Specific decisions about a child's future (e.g. a trade or skill chosen for a son) were left to the good sense of the widow/executor/elder son/daughter who were trusted to act in the child's best interests. They lived in a small, long-established community with close ties between certain families.
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Very concerned that having obtained two wills from National Archives which are their copyright, you
have attached the complete wills on this board for anyone to download.
Think you should check if you are allowed to do this, it may be infringement of copyright rules.
Select "Help" tab at top of page, then "Guidelines for posting" in menu on the "Help" page. Paragraph about copyright is near the end of the "Guidelines for posting" page with a link to more information.
If still in doubt ask a moderator.
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Please note i have now placed in each post of the Will
NB: "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
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Hi,
Very concerned that having obtained two wills from National Archives which are their copyright, you
have attached the complete wills on this board for anyone to download.
Think you should check if you are allowed to do this, it may be infringement of copyright rules.
Spendlove
Sorted
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in any of the threads about the George Rooke- Snr & Jnr, but Lady Catherine Rooke marries the Hon Dr Henry Moor on 26.12. 1710 at Hackington/St Stephen's Kent.
There is a newspaper report of 19.7.1729 announcing the death of Henry Moor-"eldest son of the Hon Dr Moor by Lady Rooke"....maybe George Jnr was brought up in this family?
djm297
Thanks djm297.
There is just no written text about the son George Rooke (1702-1739, that i can find.
His mother died at birth in 1702 and his father, Admiral George Rooke was away often.
However, the father remarried again to a Catherine Knatchbull in 1706, so i suppose that the young George lived with her, he then being only 4 years old, but there is nothing to confirm this.
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Possible alternatives:
....
Boarding school, perhaps staying with stepmother or one of the guardians, or another person for holidays.
I see from a recent post on one of your other threads that George was admitted to Pembroke College at Cambridge University when he was 16 and that you may be able to obtain information about his previous education from college records.
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My suggestions as to where George junior lived.
The family home of St Lawrence House, Canterbury, with a household of nursemaids, tutors and a female relative. The step-mother remarried, as we know, in a year or so.
He had several aunts, the most likely one is Ursula, married to Sir Thomas Hardres and probably living at Upper Hardres, a few miles away.
I doubt if you will ever know definitely, but I have had fun checking it, as this is local history for me, and touches on people and places I have recently researched.
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Possible alternatives:
....
Boarding school, perhaps staying with stepmother or one of the guardians, or another person for holidays.
I see from a recent post on one of your other threads that George was admitted to Pembroke College at Cambridge University when he was 16 and that you may be able to obtain information about his previous education from college records.
Thanks, Ive already contacted Pembroke College, let's see..
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Cambridge Alumni is on line
https://archive.org/details/p1alumnicantabri03univuoft/page/485/mode/1up?q=Rooke
Spendlove
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Cambridge Alumni is on line
https://archive.org/details/p1alumnicantabri03univuoft/page/485/mode/1up?q=Rooke
Details are already posted in the other thread (reply #3) ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849318.msg7168686
Calpe 1704 - this is a prime example of why it's best to keep all the information on one person in a single thread, to avoid duplication of effort amongst people trying to help.
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My suggestions as to where George junior lived.
The family home of St Lawrence House, Canterbury, with a household of nursemaids, tutors and a female relative. The step-mother remarried, as we know, in a year or so.
He had several aunts, the most likely one is Ursula, married to Sir Thomas Hardres and probably living at Upper Hardres, a few miles away.
I doubt if you will ever know definitely, but I have had fun checking it, as this is local history for me, and touches on people and places I have recently researched.
Thank you all for your replies and needed help.
Current details: -
George Rooke, born July 1702, died Nov. 1739.
His mother Mary (Luttrell) having died at childbirth; his father, an Admiral, was frequently at sea.
The father, Sir George Rooke, remarried in 1706 to Catherine (Knatchbull - ?-1755).
And in 1709 the father passes away.
So we have one young George Rooke, aged 6 1/2 and his stepmother Catherine Rooke (nee Knatchbull).
Ursula, Mary, Ann & Jane were aunts. Thomas & Finch were uncles.
If the young George Rooke had a stepmother, then why would he live with an aunt?
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There were 3 or 4 years of his infancy with no stepmother, then she remarried. Perhaps she didn't want to be a step-mother. My guess would be that he lived at home, my first suggestion!
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Cambridge Alumni is on line
https://archive.org/details/p1alumnicantabri03univuoft/page/485/mode/1up?q=Rooke
Details are already posted in the other thread (reply #3) ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849318.msg7168686
Calpe 1704 - this is a prime example of why it's best to keep all the information on one person in a single thread, to avoid duplication of effort amongst people trying to help.
There is now only one thread open, this one. I had started the other thread being a different item, the Will, but as you've seen things were getting crossed.
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There were 3 or 4 years of his infancy with no stepmother, then she remarried. Perhaps she didn't want to be a step-mother. My guess would be that he lived at home, my first suggestion!
Taken on board, thanks
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If the young George Rooke had a stepmother, then why would he live with an aunt?
In the Admiral's will, he specifies that his second wife is to be an executor (along with Brodnax and Milles) only ...for and during the time of her being and continuing My widow and no longer....
Furthermore, he devises the Guardianship of George Junior (until he turns 21 years) to his executors. (In essence - I have simplified the full wording.)
Furthermore, he gives to his then wife:
...Power to dwell in
my Mansion House of Saint Lawrence till my Sonn
attaine or might have attained the age of one and
Twenty years if she so long shall be unmarried...
ADDED:
You really need to read this will for yourself. It will become easier as you go.
If you have serious difficulty with a word, put a question mark and continue. After eight or so lines, post a clip with your transcript on the Handwriting board and we will help with the problem words.
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Calpe 1704 - this is a prime example of why it's best to keep all the information on one person in a single thread, to avoid duplication of effort amongst people trying to help.
I suggested that Calpe ask for help on the handwriting board about the will + other documents.
Including links to associated threads enables people to quickly see what is already known.
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Ursula, Mary, Ann & Jane were aunts. Thomas & Finch were uncles.
For interest, and to rule out young George living with Uncle Finch:
"1696. An inquisition is taken before the Coroner of Can-
terbury on view of the bodies of Anth. Buckeredge and
Finch Rooke, gents, who were both killed in a duel fought
by them with swords, in the North-Holmes, in Northgate,
Canterbury."
from - "The history and topographical survey of the county of Kent. Containing the antient and present state of it, civil and ecclesiastical; Collected From Public Records, And Other Authorities: Illustrated with maps, views, antiquities, &c. The second edition, improved, corrected, and continued to the present time. By Edward Hasted, Esq. F. R. S. and S. A. Late Of Canterbury. Volume I"
Author: Hasted, Edward, 1732-1812
Publication: Date 1797
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That was some duel!
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If the young George Rooke had a stepmother, then why would he live with an aunt?
In the Admiral's will, he specifies that his second wife is to be an executor (along with Brodnax and Milles) only ...for and during the time of her being and continuing My widow and no longer....
Furthermore, he devises the Guardianship of George Junior (until he turns 21 years) to his executors. (In essence - I have simplified the full wording.)
Furthermore, he gives to his then wife:
...Power to dwell in my Mansion House of Saint Lawrence till my Sonn attaine or might have attained the age of one and Twenty years if she so long shall be unmarried...
ADDED:
You really need to read this will for yourself. It will become easier as you go.
If you have serious difficulty with a word, put a question mark and continue. After eight or so lines, post a clip with your transcript on the Handwriting board and we will help with the problem words.
Thanks for the information.
The Admiral's first wife, Mary, died in 1699.
George's mother died giving birth in July 1702, so she would not have been the executor.
So as 'horselydown86' has cleared up, was under the hands of 'Guardianship of George (until he turns 21 years) to his executors, Brodnax & Miles.
The Admiral married his 3rd wife, Catherine (nee Knatchbull), in Jan. 1706, so it's assumed George must have met her (and lived with her?).
Above 'horselydown86' explains that: - 'he gives to his then wife Power (3rd wife Catherine) to dwell in my Mansion House of Saint Lawrence, till my Sonn attaine the age of one and Twenty years if she shall be unmarried'.
I'm unaware if she remarried.
Thank you for the kind offer about the Will.
Added: - George Rooke married a Hon. Frances Ward in Oct. 1723, he had just turned 21 in July.
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Above 'horselydown86' explains that: - 'he gives to his then wife Power (3rd wife Catherine) to dwell in my Mansion House of Saint Lawrence, till my Sonn attaine the age of one and Twenty years if she shall be unmarried'.
I'm unaware if she remarried.
Information about Catherine's next marriage was posted by djm297 reply #51 and Top-of-the-hill reply #59 and possibly by others.
Many members of the Rooke family are on a website about genealogical links of a family called Ashe. There are errors with some dates e.g. a Rooke who was M.P. for a century and after he died!
https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/surnames.htm
I was impressed by baby George's godparents, Queen Anne and Prince George! I assume Prince George was the the queen's husband, Prince George of Denmark.
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Above 'horselydown86' explains that: - 'he gives to his then wife Power (3rd wife Catherine) to dwell in my Mansion House of Saint Lawrence, till my Sonn attaine the age of one and Twenty years if she shall be unmarried'.
I'm unaware if she remarried.
Information about Catherine's next marriage was posted by djm297 reply #51 and Top-of-the-hill reply #59 and possibly by others.
Many members of the Rooke family are on a website about genealogical links of a family called Ashe. There are errors with some dates e.g. a Rooke who was M.P. for a century and after he died!
https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/surnames.htm
I was impressed by baby George's godparents, Queen Anne and Prince George! I assume Prince George was the the queen's husband, Prince George of Denmark.
No discredit meant to djm297 nor to Top-of-the-hill.
Marriage proved with thanks. So we can see that Admiral George's 3rd wife remarried just under 2 years after his death, on the 26th Dec. 1710. This being the case she would have needed to leave the Rooke home, as per the Will?
Back to George and his life..
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Lady Catherine may have already left St Lawrence House, as her marriage shows her of St Stephens parish on the opposite side of Canterbury and she married there.
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Ursula, Mary, Ann & Jane were aunts. Thomas & Finch were uncles.
For interest, and to rule out young George living with Uncle Finch:
"1696. An inquisition is taken before the Coroner of Can-
terbury on view of the bodies of Anth. Buckeredge and
Finch Rooke, gents, who were both killed in a duel fought
by them with swords, in the North-Holmes, in Northgate,
Canterbury."
Finch Rooke and Anthony Buckeridge were both garrison officers. Information about Finch's death + other Rooke family members in St. Paul's church section of "Historic Canterbury" website. Scroll further down page for extra detail about Finch's duel and death.
Uncle Thomas was also dead. Captain Thomas Rooke died 1701.
Dame Jane Rooke, widow of Sir William (young George's grandmother?) died 1711.
machadoink.com/st%20Pauls%20Church.htm
An executor of Captain Thomas Rooke's will was sister Mary Blashford.
https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/surnames.htm
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Ursula, Mary, Ann & Jane were aunts. Thomas & Finch were uncles.
For interest, and to rule out young George living with Uncle Finch:
"1696. An inquisition is taken before the Coroner of Canterbury on view of the bodies of Anth. Buckeredge and Finch Rooke, gents, who were both killed in a duel fought by them with swords, in the North-Holmes, in Northgate, Canterbury."
Finch Rooke and Anthony Buckeridge were both garrison officers. Information about Finch's death + other Rooke family members in St. Paul's church section of "Historic Canterbury" website. Scroll further down page for extra detail about Finch's duel and death.
Uncle Thomas was also dead. Captain Thomas Rooke died 1701.
Dame Jane Rooke, widow of Sir William (young George's grandmother?) died 1711.
machadoink.com/st%20Pauls%20Church.htm
An executor of Captain Thomas Rooke's will was sister Mary Blashford.
https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/surnames.htm
Fascinating information of the two uncles and one aunt.
This link doesn't work - machadoink.com/st%20Pauls%20Church.htm
Back to young George and his life....
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Just google machadoink - I often find myself on that website, it is a mine of information.
Does the Ashe family site have Mary Rooke's marriage to Mr Blashford? I can't find it. Wondered if she was widowed.
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Just google machadoink - I often find myself on that website, it is a mine of information.
I first found it by searching for Finch Rooke, then by googling Historic Canterbury.
I can't help thinking that Finch Rooke is a hybrid bird. :) I know Finch was a maiden surname but did his parents not consider the teasing their son would have to put up with?
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Just google machadoink - I often find myself on that website, it is a mine of information.
I first found it by searching for Finch Rooke, then by googling Historic Canterbury.
I can't help thinking that Finch Rooke is a hybrid bird. :) I know Finch was a maiden surname but did his parents not consider the teasing their son would have to put up with?
George Rooke's uncle, named Finch. Finch is actually quite a common Boys first name.
Back to young George Rooke and his short life of 37 years, passing away in Nov. 1739
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There is just no written text about the son George Rooke (1702-1739, that i can find.
His mother died at birth in 1702 and his father, Admiral George Rooke was away often.
However, the father remarried again to a Catherine Knatchbull in 1706, so i suppose that the young George lived with her, he then being only 4 years old, but there is nothing to confirm this.
Upper-class people tended to have more than 1 residence at a time. There might have been a house in "Town" and a house in the "Country". Depending on the man's position in society, his wife may have spent long periods in "Town", running the town-house, entertaining her husband's guests and socialising. Children may have spent the greater part (or all) of their time at the country home, which was generally a healthier place for children, perhaps looked after by staff (nursemaid, governess, tutor).*
It's possible that Catherine didn't have much to do with her stepson. It may have depended on the admiral's purpose for marrying Catherine - was it for money or social or political connections, or to breed more children or to act as a social hostess or to be a stepmother, or even for love.
Jane, the admiral's mother, was alive until 1711. She may have been overseeing her grandson's care while his father was away.
Added. *As suggested by Top-of-the-hill reply 59.
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Biography of Sir George Rooke on History of Parliament Online.
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1690-1715/member/rooke-sir-george-1650-1709
As well as being Admiral of the Fleet he was M.P for Portsmouth until 1708.
Fought a duel with John Norris 1699.
1702 "overcome with grief" at the death of his second wife shortly after the birth of his son.
Prince George, his son's godfather, was nominal head of the Admiralty.
Feb. 1703 Visited St. Lawrence "to put my own little private affairs in order" in between his public duties.
1703 Earl of Abingdon introduced a motion in the House of Lords for a compliment to be paid to Rooke "in acknowledgement of his services". The motion wasn't seconded. (A great-niece of that earl was godmother to 3 children of a 5xGGF of mine, my only link to nobility. :))
Sir George suffered several bouts of ill-health, including gout. Had an operation on his legs; surgeon removed a chalky substance. ??? Took leave of absence from Dec. 1705 on account of his health. Seems to have spent more time in Kent afterwards.
Jan. 1706 married Catherine, sister of Edward Knatchbull, a lady reported to be "a great fortune in Kent". Edward Knatchbull was another M.P.
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St Lawrence House was virtually in the country; even in late 19th Century maps the area is St Lawrence Farm.
I suspect the marriage to Catherine Knatchbull was, as Maiden Stone suggests, for social advancement; she was the daughter of an influential member of the Kent gentry.
Post just overtaken by M.S.!
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I suspect the marriage to Catherine Knatchbull was, as Maiden Stone suggests, for social advancement; she was the daughter of an influential member of the Kent gentry.
Although he may also have been hoping for another son, a spare to the heir. (The second wife, little George's mother, was only around 20 when she died.)
As Catherine was a local girl and as Sir George was having health problems and seems to have been concentrating his political energies in Kent, they probably spent more time at or near home.
Ideas about child-rearing were different 300 years ago.
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Thanks everyone for the help and information, it is greatly appreciated.
Summing up...
I had forgotten about the family line of George's grandmother, Jane Rooke (nee Finch). Passing away in 1711, George would have been 9 years old. It's assumed as grandmother she had some 'input' into George's younger years.
We now know that George's guardians, until he was 21, were William Brodnax of Godmersham, Kent and Samuel Milles (lawyer?) of the Inner Temple, London.
I contacted Pembroke College at Cambridge University and apart from the information already given in this thread, they don't have any information on George's earlier school life.
George's occupation is not known.
As i previously mentioned George married the Hon. Frances Ward in Oct. 1723, he had just turned 21 in July.
As we know George passed away in Nov. 1739, but the exact cause of death is unknown apart from the passage found in - Memoirs of Laetitia Pilkington, Vol.II, 1749
Quote from page 129: - '....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
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Looking for advise and help in trying to find information/facts about the son of Sir George Rooke (1650-1709).
Sir George Rooke (1650-1709), was Admiral of the Fleet.
Added
In the Biographical Memoir on Sir George Rooke, Naval Chronicle for 1815, we can read
'..and on the 24th of January, 1708-9, in the 58th year of his age, he died of the gout, a complaint with which he had been many years afflicited'.
What I am looking for is information of the son George Rooke (1702-1739).
The only thing i have found (very surprising for a son of an Admiral of the Fleet) is a small mention in 'Memoirs of Laetitia Pilkington, Vol.II, 1749'
Quote from page 129 -
'....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
An apoplectic fit, also known as apoplexy, refers to a sudden neurological impairment often resulting from a brain haemorrhage or stroke.
Might there be a way of sourcing an actual document or text that specifies the cause of death?
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Deleted.
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He had several aunts, the most likely one is Ursula, married to Sir Thomas Hardres and probably living at Upper Hardres, a few miles away.
I doubt if you will ever know definitely, but I have had fun checking it, as this is local history for me, and touches on people and places I have recently researched.
May i ask how do you know Ursula Rooke married Sir Thomas Hardres?
Might you have a date?
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May i ask how do you know Ursula Rooke married Sir Thomas Hardres?
Might you have a date?
From a monument in Upper Hardres St Peter and St Paul Church
"Here lies interred the body of Sir Thomas Hardres, Bart., who departed this life on the 23 day of February, in the year of our Lord 1688, in the 28th year of his age. He married Ursula, the second daughter of Sir William Rooke, Knight. (by whom he had issue 2 children, namely Frances who died in her infancy, and William now living.) She died on 8th January in the year 1707, in the 52d year of her age, and also lies buryed under this stone."
"The monuments and painted glass of upwards of one hundred churches, chiefly in the eastern part of Kent, most of which were examined by the editor in person, and the rest communicated by the resident clergy. With an appendix, containing three churches in other counties. To which are added, a small collection of detached epitaphs, with a few notes on the whole. By Philip Parsons, A. M. Minister of wye, in Kent"
Publication Date: 1794
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Also
"HARDRES, of Hardres, Kent ...
This ancient family came from Ardres in Picardy (b), though it is uncertain whether they entered England before, or at the time of the Norman invasion ...
Sir Thomas Hardres, Bart., who married Ursula, daughter of Sir William Rooke, Knt, and was buried at Hardres, leaving issue ..."
"The english baronetage: containing a genealogical and historical account of all the English baronets, now existing: their descents, marriages, and issues; Memorable Actions, both in War, and Peace; Religious and Charitable Donations; Deaths, Places of Burial, and Monumental Inscriptions; collected From Authentick Manuscripts, Records, Old Wills, our best Historians, and other Authorities. Illustrated with their coats of arms, Curiously Engraven, on copper-plates: with An Explanatory Index of the Terms in Heraldry, referring to the Arms. Also Correct Lists; I. Of the Present Baronets, in the Order of Precedence. II. Of those who are now Peers of Great-Britain, or Ireland. III. Of those Foreigners, who have had this Dignity conferr'd on them. IV. Of those, whose Titles are now Extinct. Likewise exact tables of precedence; Particularly with Respect to the Wives, Sons, and Daughters, of Baronets, and Knights. To whic are added, an account of such Nova-Scotia baronets as are of English Families, now Resident in England: and a list of such persons Names who were deemed Fit and Qualified, at the Restoration, to be made Knights of the Royal Oak, with the Value of their Estates, as then given in. Vol. I"
Author: Thomas Wotton
Publication Date: 1741
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Frances HARDRES was baptised 25 Mar 1683 at St Paul, Canterbury, dau of Thomas and Ursula.
She was buried 24 Aug 1688.
William HARDRES was bap 5 Aug 1686 at St Paul, Canterbury, son of Thomas and Ursula.
A few more details on findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192253297/william-hardres
and this wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hardres
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May i ask how do you know Ursula Rooke married Sir Thomas Hardres?
Might you have a date?
From a monument in Upper Hardres St Peter and St Paul Church
"Here lies interred the body of Sir Thomas Hardres, Bart., who departed this life on the 23 day of February, in the year of our Lord 1688, in the 28th year of his age. He married Ursula, the second daughter of Sir William Rooke, Knight. (by whom he had issue 2 children, namely Frances who died in her infancy, and William now living.) She died on 8th January in the year 1707, in the 52d year of her age, and also lies buryed under this stone."
"The monuments and painted glass of upwards of one hundred churches, chiefly in the eastern part of Kent, most of which were examined by the editor in person, and the rest communicated by the resident clergy. With an appendix, containing three churches in other counties. To which are added, a small collection of detached epitaphs, with a few notes on the whole. By Philip Parsons, A. M. Minister of wye, in Kent"
Publication Date: 1794
Absolutely fantastic information, thank you.
So we can now see Ursula passed away in 1707.
Young George would have been 5 years old, so that counts her out in her care for him after 1707.
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Frances HARDRES was baptised 25 Mar 1683 at St Paul, Canterbury, dau of Thomas and Ursula.
She was buried 24 Aug 1688.
William HARDRES was bap 5 Aug 1686 at St Paul, Canterbury, son of Thomas and Ursula.
A few more details on findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192253297/william-hardres
and this wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hardres
Thank you for this interesting information.
I wonder under whose care George was until he went to Pembroke College aged 16?
Once he obtained his BA, I wonder what he did?
By then he was 18 years old.
We know he married aged 21.
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Ideas about child-rearing were different 300 years ago.
Background reading:
"The Georgian guide to perfect parenting"
https://www.historyextra.com/period/georgian/the-georgian-guide-to-perfect-parenting/
(Information about different stages of childhood.)
Most of young George's childhood was spent in Stuart England. Possible terms to research:
Childhood in Stuart England
Childhood in Georgian England
Childhood in Early Modern England
Children and youth in history
Marriage children and home life in 1700s
Family life in early 18th century
Family and social life in 18th century
"The Invention of Childhood" was a 6 part Radio 4 series by Michael Morpurgo.
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I wonder under whose care George was until he went to Pembroke College aged 16?
Once he obtained his BA, I wonder what he did?
By then he was 18 years old.
We know he married aged 21.
We also know he had a good 21st birthday party - from a previous thread:
"London, July 6.
On Sunday last, George Rooke, Esq; eldest son to
the late Sir George Rooke, Knt. and Admiral, came
of Age. On which Occasion a very great Enter-
tainment was made at the Feathers Tavern in Cheap-
side."
July 6, 1723, The Daily Post
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Might have mentioned this before, but knowing now who George snr's siblings were, I wonder whose death this was reported in 1725 - not Thomas or Finch?
"On Saturday last, Major-General Rooke, Brother to the
late Admiral Sir George Rooke, was bury'd at Isleworth in
Middlesex."
Jan. 19, 1725, The Post Boy
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Deleted.
Deleted?
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Might have mentioned this before, but knowing now who George snr's siblings were, I wonder whose death this was reported in 1725 - not Thomas or Finch?
"On Saturday last, Major-General Rooke, Brother to the
late Admiral Sir George Rooke, was bury'd at Isleworth in
Middlesex."
Jan. 19, 1725, The Post Boy
Hayman or Heyman Rooke, son of Lawrence Rooke according to https://www.ashefamily.info
See my reply #72 about this website. I suspect misprints with some dates of births & deaths.
I looked at Rooke on the Surnames list on the Ashe site. Couldn't spot a death in 1725. Checked military men alive in 17th & 18th centuries + other men alive then.
Major-General Hayman Rooke sometime of Canterbury, afterwards of Isleworth, County Middlesex. Baptised at Horton 10th Feb. 1653. Captain 1677; Colonel 1703; Brigadier 1706/7; Major-General 1709/10. Died Jan. 1724/5. Buried Isleworth. Will 1722, proved 1724 by Disney Rooke, relict (widow).
Lawrence Rooke, (b. 1622) father of Hayman, had several sons, according to Ashe family website. Another was George, also born 1653, also a soldier. Lieutenant in Duke & Duchess of York Infantry 1684; (another George Rooke was lieutenant in same regiment at same time); Captain 1709. George was Lawrence's heir (Ashe family website).
Lawrence's parents were George Rooke (b. 1580) & Mary Burrell.
If the above is correct, the newspaper was wrong about the relationship of the Admiral and the Major-General.
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Major-General Hayman Rooke was 1st cousin to Admiral Sir George Rooke according to catalogue description of a document collection "Rooke family of St. Briavels" dated 1671-1919 in Gloucestershire Archives.
https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/
Located via National Archives Discovery catalogue https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk or by a search for Major-General Hayman Rooke 1653-1724.
The collection is of deeds and estate records of Bigsweir estate, St. Briavels, Newlands and Monmouthshire + miscellaneous records + correspondence of the Rooke family.
Creator: Rooke family of Mersham, Kent and of Bigsweir, Gloucestershire.
The Rooke family, originally from Mersham, Kent, acquired the Bigsweir estate by the 2nd marriage of Major James Rooke, son of Major-General Hayman Rooke, to Jane Catchmay, the heiress, in 1735.
Collection includes letters and order books + original letters received by Admiral Sir George Rooke "and Order Book of the Coldstream Guards probably belonging to Major-General Hayman Rooke, first cousin of the Admiral." "The Admiral's descendants do not figure in this collection and may have died out, though there are letters from a Lewis Rooke of Devon ..... giving his reasons for believing himself descended from the Admiral ....."
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Frances HARDRES was baptised 25 Mar 1683 at St Paul, Canterbury, dau of Thomas and Ursula.
She was buried 24 Aug 1688.
William HARDRES was bap 5 Aug 1686 at St Paul, Canterbury, son of Thomas and Ursula.
A few more details on findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192253297/william-hardres
and this wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hardres
Thank you for this interesting information.
I wonder under whose care George was until he went to Pembroke College aged 16?
Once he obtained his BA, I wonder what he did?
By then he was 18 years old.
We know he married aged 21.
Valuable information, thank you.
Error in Wiki, Ursula name spelt Ursua.
Error in FindaGrave, the surname is spelt Rook.
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I wonder under whose care George was until he went to Pembroke College aged 16?
Once he obtained his BA, I wonder what he did?
By then he was 18 years old.
We know he married aged 21.
We also know he had a good 21st birthday party - from a previous thread:
"London, July 6.
On Sunday last, George Rooke, Esq; eldest son to
the late Sir George Rooke, Knt. and Admiral, came
of Age. On which Occasion a very great Enter-
tainment was made at the Feathers Tavern in Cheap-
side."
July 6, 1723, The Daily Post
Another thanks to all those helping me with this.
I missed that post but it's really interesting to read of his 'Coming to Age' party.
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Might have mentioned this before, but knowing now who George snr's siblings were, I wonder whose death this was reported in 1725 - not Thomas or Finch?
"On Saturday last, Major-General Rooke, Brother to the
late Admiral Sir George Rooke, was bury'd at Isleworth in
Middlesex."
Jan. 19, 1725, The Post Boy
As we know Admiral George only had one son George, who married The Hon. Frances Ward.
They had no children.
In Mr Ashe web site we can see https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/6382.htm (https://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/6382.htm)
Colonel Sir William Rooke (1624-1690) had these children:-
Admiral Sir George Rooke, Mary Rooke, Ursula Rooke, Ann Rooke, Captain Thomas Rooke, Jane Rooke and Finch Rooke.
I have never seen any mention before of a Major-General Rooke, being the brother of Admiral George Rooke (1650-1709).
Back to George Junior's life......
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Major-General Hayman Rooke was 1st cousin to Admiral Sir George Rooke according to catalogue description of a document collection "Rooke family of St. Briavels" dated 1671-1919 in Gloucestershire Archives.
https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/
Located via National Archives Discovery catalogue https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk or by a search for Major-General Hayman Rooke 1653-1724.
The collection is of deeds and estate records of Bigsweir estate, St. Briavels, Newlands and Monmouthshire + miscellaneous records + correspondence of the Rooke family.
Creator: Rooke family of Mersham, Kent and of Bigsweir, Gloucestershire.
The Rooke family, originally from Mersham, Kent, acquired the Bigsweir estate by the 2nd marriage of Major James Rooke, son of Major-General Hayman Rooke, to Jane Catchmay, the heiress, in 1735.
Collection includes letters and order books + original letters received by Admiral Sir George Rooke "and Order Book of the Coldstream Guards probably belonging to Major-General Hayman Rooke, first cousin of the Admiral." "The Admiral's descendants do not figure in this collection and may have died out, though there are letters from a Lewis Rooke of Devon ..... giving his reasons for believing himself descended from the Admiral ....."
Thanks again for this very valuable information.
Also for clearing up the likely error of that old newspaper.
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Part of the Rooke Family Tree.
The idea is to establish who was actually alive when young George was around.
Where his younger schooling was.
What family (if any) took care of him or had input into his upbringing.
So George and the period concerned in 1702 to 1739.
His mother died giving birth in July 1702.
His father had died in Jan. 1709.
His uncles Finch & Thomas were already dead.
So we have still have in play auntie Ursula, but she had only one surviving son, who died in 1736. Ursula died in 1707.
Then we have George's other aunts, Mary, Ann & Jane Rooke, but Jane had died in 1711.
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Thanks again for this very valuable information.
Also for clearing up the likely error of that old newspaper.
See also my reply #97.
Newspaper error may have been due to Hayman having a brother George.
Hayman's father was Lawrence born 1622, married Barbara Hayman. Lawrence was apparently a brother of William Rooke who was father of Admiral George. Their father was George Rooke (born 1580).
Looking at Lawrence's profile on Ashe family website, his education was at Eton and Cambridge. He became a Fellow of Cambridge.
My guess is that George b. 1701 also attended Eton or a similar school. Possibly attended another preparatory boarding school from a young age.
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Thanks again for this very valuable information.
Also for clearing up the likely error of that old newspaper.
See also my reply #97.
Newspaper error may have been due to Hayman having a brother George.
Hayman's father was Lawrence born 1622, married Barbara Hayman. Lawrence was apparently a brother of William Rooke who was father of Admiral George. Their father was George Rooke (born 1580).
Looking at Lawrence's profile on Ashe family website, his education was at Eton and Cambridge. He became a Fellow of Cambridge.
My guess is that George b. 1701 also attended Eton or a similar school. Possibly attended another preparatory boarding school from a young age.
Reply 97, was quite an interesting read and thank you.
As for George's early education.... i wonder....
There remains his early years before Pembroke College and then his life after he married The Hon. Frances Ward in Oct. 1723.
Never having used this web site how accurate is it?
https://www.familysearch.org/ (https://www.familysearch.org/)
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My guess is that George b. 1701 also attended Eton or a similar school. Possibly attended another preparatory boarding school from a young age.
Plenty of schools in England by 1700.
Schools in Kent included:
Norton Knatchbull School at Ashford
Sevenoaks School
Cranbrook
Harvey's Grammar School, Folkstone
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Royal Hospital School was for sons of sailors. Doesn't seem young George was destined for a navy career so maybe not there. Perhaps if he'd been a younger son or from a less well-off family he might have been sent there.
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So we have still have in play auntie Ursula, but she had only one surviving son, who died in 1736. Ursula died in 1707.
Ursula Rooke will 1714. Was that her?
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So we have still have in play auntie Ursula, but she had only one surviving son, who died in 1736. Ursula died in 1707.
Ursula Rooke will 1714. Was that her?
No, I think from memory that was Finch's wife who was also Ursula, not on my computer now but the will mentions her father and sister (I think).
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And thanks for clearing up who the Major General was that died in 1725, it shows the problem with newspaper items, sometimes the editors didn't do a thorough job, so they are really only an indication of where to look for records. :)
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My guess is that George b. 1701 also attended Eton or a similar school. Possibly attended another preparatory boarding school from a young age.
Plenty of schools in England by 1700.
Schools in Kent included:
Norton Knatchbull School at Ashford
Sevenoaks School
Cranbrook
Harvey's Grammar School, Folkstone
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Royal Hospital School was for sons of sailors. Doesn't seem young George was destined for a navy career so maybe not there. Perhaps if he'd been a younger son or from a less well-off family he might have been sent there.
Thank you for that information.
I have contacted today the Schools you have mentioned, fingers crossed.
Norton Knatchbull School at Ashford, might be the one, as Admiral George Rooke had married Catherine Knatchbull, in Jan. 1706
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Latest effort of the Rooke family attached.
Chasing the schools for George's younger years of studying.
I wonder what he did once he obtained his B.A.?
And once he married where was he and what occupation did he have?
As for George's important care up to the age of 16?
The majority of his uncles and aunts had already passed away.
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Mary Rooke bapt. 1653, probably died in 1737. Mrs Mary Blashford, widow, buried St Paul, Canterbury, May 1737. I have not found a marriage, but she is named in the will as "my sister Blashford". If it is her she was over 80, but some people always managed that.
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One of Lady Catherine Rooke's sons with her second husband , Henry Moor(e), was Admiral Sir John Moor(e), 1718-1779. Wikipedia states that he was educated at Whitchurch Grammar School , Shropshire. It might be worth trying to find where his 2 elder brothers were educated?
His eldest brother, Henry Moor died in 1729- at Cambridge- see a previous reply-, the next eldest was Revd Thomas Moore DD of Slow Hall Norfolk. There was also a sister -Mary who married Rev Dr Forester.
I found details of Lady Rooke's and Henry Moor's children from his obituary on 9 March 1770 in The Derby Mercury
djm 297
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Hi
Cambridge Alumni, states that Henry Moore attended
Bury St Edmunds school (Mr Kinnesman).
Spendlove
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Were there no children from Sir George's 1st marriage? Elder sisters of young George?
Have we discounted siblings of young George's mother?
The last attachment wouldn't open for me.
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Mary Rooke bapt. 1653, probably died in 1737. Mrs Mary Blashford, widow, buried St Paul, Canterbury, May 1737. I have not found a marriage, but she is named in the will as "my sister Blashford". If it is her she was over 80, but some people always managed that.
Thank you for the information.
Mary Rooke, would be Admiral Rooke's sister. You show baptised in 1653.
Though you say 'probably' died in 1737 from an article you mention.
Mrs Mary Blashford would be the same person, married.
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Lady Mary Rooke nee Luttrell ( George Jnr's mother) had 3 siblings:
Tregonwell- died 1703- No issue
Jane -died 1688- age 4
Frances married Edward Harvey 1705, then married Edward Ashe 1710- no issue from this marriage and I can not find any reference to her having children with her first husband.
Admiral Sir George Rooke's first wife was Mary Howe - I can not find any reference to them having children
djm297
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One of Lady Catherine Rooke's sons with her second husband , Henry Moor(e), was Admiral Sir John Moor(e), 1718-1779. Wikipedia states that he was educated at Whitchurch Grammar School , Shropshire. It might be worth trying to find where his 2 elder brothers were educated?
His eldest brother, Henry Moor died in 1729- at Cambridge- see a previous reply-, the next eldest was Revd Thomas Moore DD of Slow Hall Norfolk. There was also a sister -Mary who married Rev Dr Forester.
I found details of Lady Rooke's and Henry Moor's children from his obituary on 9 March 1770 in The Derby Mercury
djm 297
Thank you for the interesting information.
Catherine Knatchbull, widow in Jan. 1709, remarries 26 Dec. 1710 to Henry Moor(e).
Where is young George Rooke, aged 8 years old?
Where is he up to 16 years old, when he studies at Pembroke College?
After his studies where does he go and what occupation does he have?
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One of Lady Catherine Rooke's sons with her second husband , Henry Moor(e), was Admiral Sir John Moor(e), 1718-1779. Wikipedia states that he was educated at Whitchurch Grammar School , Shropshire. It might be worth trying to find where his 2 elder brothers were educated?
His eldest brother, Henry Moor died in 1729- at Cambridge- see a previous reply-, the next eldest was Revd Thomas Moore DD of Slow Hall Norfolk. There was also a sister -Mary who married Rev Dr Forester.
I found details of Lady Rooke's and Henry Moor's children from his obituary on 9 March 1770 in The Derby Mercury
djm 297
Very interesting information and thank you.
Back to George Rooke
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Were there no children from Sir George's 1st marriage? Elder sisters of young George?
Have we discounted siblings of young George's mother?
The last attachment wouldn't open for me.
Admiral George Rooke only had child from his three marriages.
Son, George from his 2nd wife Mary (Luttrell).
She passed away shortly after giving birth to George.
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Lady Mary Rooke nee Luttrell ( George Jnr's mother) had 3 siblings:
Tregonwell- died 1703- No issue
Jane -died 1688- age 4
Frances married Edward Harvey 1705, then married Edward Ashe 1710- no issue from this marriage and I can not find any reference to her having children with her first husband.
Admiral Sir George Rooke's first wife was Mary Howe - I can not find any reference to them having children
djm297
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Admiral George Rooke married three times.
1st wife Mary Howe, she passed away 1699, no children.
2nd wife Mary Luttrell, she gave birth to a boy, named George in July 1702.
She passed away shortly after giving birth.
3rd wife Catherine Katchbull, became a widow in 1709, had no children.
She remarried in Dec.1710.
Back to young George's life.......
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As per my 1st post about young George Rooke: -
There is a small mention in 'Memoirs of Laetitia Pilkington, Vol.II, 1749'
Quote from page 129: -
'....for the very first news i heard next morning, as, that Mr Rooke, a little while after he rose, fell down in an Apoplectic Fit, and instantly expired.'
From where did she get that information?
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I wonder what he did once he obtained his B.A.?
And once he married where was he and what occupation did he have?
As for George's important care up to the age of 16?
The majority of his uncles and aunts had already passed away.
These are only my opinions based on a typical life of a gentleman of the time.
George would have had a nurse and perhaps a governess during his early childhood.
From around age 8 he would have had a tutor or attended school. It may have been a day school if there was one within travelling distance. If it was too far to travel each day, he may have stayed at the school or in nearby lodgings for each school week and travelled home for weekends. (Wherever home was after deaths of his father and grandmother and remarriage of his stepmother.) He may have gone to a boarding school. Any of those things may have happened even if a boy's parents were alive. It was believed that boys should move away from female influence sometime between ages 7-11, otherwise they risked growing up "soft". They had to learn to become "manly".
George was probably sent to public school from around age 13. We know his great-uncle Lawrence was a pupil at Eton. Do you know which school, if any, George's father and grandfather attended? The only reference to Sir George's education I saw was that his father ensured he was educated as a gentleman and that he did well at his studies and was intended for a law career.
Benefits of a public school weren't just education but also meeting and mixing with other boys of similar social class and their families, making useful friendships.
A well-off young man might go on a Grand Tour of Europe. It was a sort of 18th century gap year for posh boys. He would have been accompanied by an older man, perhaps a tutor or another responsible man. As George started at Cambridge aged 16, his Grand Tour, if he went on one would likely have been after graduation.
How wealthy was George? What was the size of his inheritance from Dad and Grandma? Could he live off it? Did the estate in Canterbury provide an income? Were there other properties? Investments? What did his wife bring to the marriage?
If George didn't have to work he might have spent his time managing his estate, being a country gentleman, socialising in the county and in Town, entertaining visitors who came to stay and likewise visiting their homes, sporting pursuits, possibly cultivating political influence.
Was anything happening to his property at Canterbury between his majority and death, e.g. improvements to house or grounds, buying, selling or enclosing land?
What was happening in polite society in Canterbury and Kent at the time?
What was his wife's family doing? Business, politics, sport?
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Kings School, Canterbury? A future Dean of Canterbury, born 1697, was educated there. (John Lynch)
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I wonder what he did once he obtained his B.A.?
And once he married where was he and what occupation did he have?
As for George's important care up to the age of 16?
The majority of his uncles and aunts had already passed away.
These are only my opinions based on a typical life of a gentleman of the time.
.................
.......What was his wife's family doing? Business, politics, sport?
Thank you for your valuable reply.
Things are looking extremely thin on finding information about George Rooke's life (1702-1739), apart from now knowing he obtained a BA, at Pembroke College, Cambridge, aged 18.
I'm tempted to delve down the other paths, but considering the current known position, i probably won't bother
Added
No luck from SevenOaks School, i now written to Kent Archives to check the Governors’ Minute Books.
No luck from The Norton Knatchbull School, records held don't back back that far.
And nothing from The Harvey Grammar School, records held only for 7 years.
It's not looking good....
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Kings School, Canterbury? A future Dean of Canterbury, born 1697, was educated there. (John Lynch)
Thanks for that.
Ive just written to them......
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Just to sum up my thanks to all those that have taken the time to provide information and thoughts about George Rooke (1702-1739).
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A final thank to all those that assisted.
Any other information please send me a Personal Message.