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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Schoch on Saturday 15 May 21 21:18 BST (UK)
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This lady was born to Margaret Ellen Grainger 1865 - 1916 (no father listed on Birth Cert).
The mother went on to marry Peter Laidler in 1902.
Lillian later married William Pierce 1891 - Unk, in 1913 in Gateshead. On her wedding cert. her "father" is given as Edward Grainger.
No record has been found for an earlier marriage for her mother Margaret, least of all to Edward.
So the mystery is who is Lillian's father.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Richard
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Will be very difficult to find out if he isn't named on the birth certificate but Lingwood is an unusual middle name - sometimes the father's name was secreted in there somewhere unless it was a family name with the mother.
Likely she made up a man called Edward Grainger and he doesn't exist - what occupation was there for him?
What was Margaret's father called as sometimes grandfathers names were given if they were the "father figure" in the household.
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There's an Edward James Lingwood born 1865 Norfolk living in Newcastle 1901 who was a forgeman.
In 1891 he is with mother and siblings in Gateshead.
Not pinning it on him but would be interesting if his occupation matched Edward Grainger.
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Lingwood does not appear in any other family member, before Lillian or after her. Like you I think her middle name might be a clue as to who her father was.
I will check the marriage cert to see if an occupation is given for Edward (fingers crossed), but as you implied a name match does not mean a relationship match as well.
Thanks for the input.
Richard
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Tyne and Wear Archives holds the Newcastle Union Bastardy registers & orders 1844-1961.
Although the archives is not open at this time they are accepting enquiries and paid research.
No guarantees that your ancestor might be recorded but it might be one line of enquiry worth considering now or at some point in the future.
Good luck with your research. :)
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GRAINGER, MARGARET ELLEN ROUTLEDGE
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 29
GRAINGER, JOSEPH ROUTLEDGE
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in WIGTON Volume 10B Page 354
In 1891 Margaret is with her parents Joseph & Charlotte, they were both from Wigton, Cumberland where their older children were born. I cannot see a marriage for them.
1901 Margaret is with her mother & Lily.
GRAINGER, LILIAN LINGWOOD -
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 107
Margaret Ellen Grainger married Pater Laidler Q1/1902 Gateshead
If she used her maiden name for the marriage to Peter I looks unlikely that she was married before.
Colin
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Thank you RTL. Will look at it if nothing else turns up.
Thanks Colin. I have all the details of Lily's Mother and her siblings. Margarets parents Joseph/Charlotte were living in Wigton but moved to Newcastle between 1851 and 1861, where the rest of the children were born. No issues there.
In 1891 they were all in Newcastle. I assume the 1891 census was taken after the birth of Lilly in April that year, otherwise her birth would have been on the record then. I have even checked other families in the area for the name Lingwood (nothing).
The strongest lead yet is from Milliepede with Edward James Lingwood. But only by default as there does not appear to be anyone else close at this time.
Thanks
Richard
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I can't get the FamilySearch link to work but it seems that Lilian went to Canada in October 1901. Could she have been sent there via the workhouse? The archives have records relating to this as well. Creed register may have more info.
Could you supply more info such as addresses where Lilian was born/grew up? This might possibly help someone help further.
A Church baptism may name a Father. A school admittance record may also possibly name a Father.
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Hi RTL,
She was born in Newcastle 1891. In 1901 she was still there in the Westgate area. In 1911 she is in Gateshead on Wylam St. Her occupation is listed as working in a Leather Factory.
Lilly married in 1913,again in Gateshead.
Don't think she went to Canada in 1901, but if she did she was back by 1911. I will check that further though just in case.
Thanks
Richard
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I wonder if anyone else can get the FamilySearch link to work showing Lilian L. Grainger, age 10, as a passenger to Canada in 1901? Ship name 'Parisian' bound for Quebec, Quebec City..
I think she may possibly have been sent via the workhouse route and have later returned for whatever reason.
By the way, do you know what religion was? If Catholic, Church entries are very good source entries for info. Is there a specific street area in the 'Westgate area' on birth cert?
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I can find the record and view it but it doesn't say much - her name, age, that she was a child.
Everyone on the list has - immigration. Some have destination Montreal and some Toronto - Lilian has Toronto.
If she went and came back then there must be a returning passenger list for her.
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Thank you, Milliepede. Is it possible for you (or anyone) to attach the link for Richard? I have tried but for some reason I just get the general link for FamilySearch rather than the specific one for the record.
Just conjecture, but I do wonder if things might have been a struggle and if Lilian may have had to go into the workhouse or children's home for a time. I think it sometimes happened that children might be sent abroad under emigration schemes.
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I agree Milliepede,
I am trying to locate her return 'cause if it is her then she had to return to be married and for decedents of the tree to continue. Or it is not her of course!!
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See if this works
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X38Q-QQ?i=6&cc=1823240&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A2QSB-L16
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Thanks Milliepede - Yes, this works. It will be curious if this is not her. She is the only Lilian L Grainger on Freebmd births over quite a stretch of years over that time period. She is age 10 as well which fits in with birth year.
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Good glad it worked. I often forget to look on family search I have so many other sites open ;D
Eager to learn the occupation of "father" on the marriage certificate.
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Oh just found a family tree with a Lilian Louisa Grainger born 1890 Durham and it has half siblings born in Canada which, if correct, could mean the passenger list one isn't right :-\
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Thanks Milliepede. I suppose she could be the correct one. I can't see a birth registration for her. ??? Either I am missing something or perhaps she wasn't registered over here.
I agree it would be interesting to hear about occupation of named Father on marriage cert.
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According to her marriage cert., her father's occupation is a Leather Dresser. A coincidence that she ends up working in a leather factory??? Perhaps her mother Margaret kept in touch with Liilly's father, who got her a job where he worked?
I still am having a hard time accepting that the Lillian who went to Toronto is one of the same that ended back in the UK (can find no record of the return trip as yet).
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See post 16 by Milliepede, it turns out the person who went to Canada was probably a Lilian Louisa Grainger.
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Thanks I see it now. So back to square one. Looks like I may have to try the Bastardly Registry to see if she is registered there. Hoping the fathers name is given but in all reality it may not be,
Richard
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Oh a leather dresser doesn't fit the theory does it :-\
Not sure about the other Lilian but there is a Lily Grainger born 1889 Durham
or Lily Granger born 1890 Durham
however both seem to be in England for census and no siblings born overseas so don't know who it was on the passenger list.
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Richard, I am sorry you are back to square 1.
Perhaps ask via archives how much research you can have covered in an hour?
Can you supply specific address on the birth cert you have? Father might be named on baptism at a nearby Church? Or on a school record?
Bastardy records might be good to check and the workhouse creed registers, if you might think there is a possibility they might have entered even for a short spell. I suppose they may have just stayed with family if the latter was willing and able to be supportive.
I would still be interested in Edward Lingwood despite occupation not fitting. Perhaps she just made occupation up because of some familiarity. Perhaps she knew identity of her Father but not his occupation? Lingwood is a distinctive middle name, I think there could well be a link there with Father.
Have you thought of trying to trace him via the DNA route?
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Yes I agree the Lingwood name has to be significant in some way.
Who were the marriage witnesses in case there is any link there?
I also wondered if she had any more children with the father who also had a Lingwood middle name but haven't found any.
Edward Lingwood has a son Edward in 1895 Newcastle so he was in the area then.