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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mjwatts1960 on Monday 14 June 21 19:16 BST (UK)
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Searching for Elizabeth Gardiner daughter of Christopher and Elizabeth Gardiner of Minchinhampton. She married Daniel Chance 6 Nov 1783 in Minchinhampton. I need to know when and where she was born and when and where she died. Can anyone help please? Have tried myself without success.
I need to know who her Gardiner ancestors were in the 1700s and 1600s. She is supposedly related to William Gardiner 1606 1632 who married Anne Hastings daughter of Simon Hastings of Daylesford on 2 Oct 1624. Thank you
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As you know who Elizabeth's parents are I'm not sure whether you already have this:
Minchinhampton - 4 August 1749 baptism of Elizabeth d/o Christopher and Elizabeth Gardner
Gloucestershire marriage licence allegation: 15 September 1748
Christopher Gardiner age 23 bachelor of Minchinhampton
Elizabeth Pool age 21 spinster of Minchinhampton
to marry at St Mary de Crypt [in Gloucester]
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Have you seen the PCC will of Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhamptonl? He writes it in 1804 stating that he is in his eighty first year. I have only looked at it briefly, but he mentions his grandson Daniel Gardiner Chance - and also his 'kinsman' Warren Hastings. The connection with Daylesford?
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Link to thread on one name board to save research repetition
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849931.msg7173505
Good luck ...were your GARDINER s fairly consistent with that spelling ?
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Warren Hastings (1732-1818) was the son of a Penyston (other spellings also occur) Hastings.
Pennyston Hastings married Priscilla Gardiner at Guiting Power, Gloucestershire 18 January 1703/4, and baptised a son of the same name there on 27 February 1704/5.
The elder Penyston Hastings is identified in the register as "Clerk", so I am not sure whether it is this man marrying Hester Warren in 1730 at Twyning, who is also identified as "Clerk", or his son.
The CofE database seems to show only one clergyman of that name.
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As you know who Elizabeth's parents are I'm not sure whether you already have this:
Minchinhampton - 4 August 1749 baptism of Elizabeth d/o Christopher and Elizabeth Gardner
Gloucestershire marriage licence allegation: 15 September 1748
Christopher Gardiner age 23 bachelor of Minchinhampton
Elizabeth Pool age 21 spinster of Minchinhampton
to marry at St Mary de Crypt [in Gloucester]
Thank you very much for this. I did not have any of this information. This is an important step forward. The next step is to try to identify Christopher Gardiner's birth about 1723 and parents
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Warren Hastings (1732-1818) was the son of a Penyston (other spellings also occur) Hastings.
Pennyston Hastings married Priscilla Gardiner at Guiting Power, Gloucestershire 18 January 1703/4, and baptised a son of the same name there on 27 February 1704/5.
The elder Penyston Hastings is identified in the register as "Clerk", so I am not sure whether it is this man marrying Hester Warren in 1730 at Twyning, who is also identified as "Clerk", or his son.
The CofE database seems to show only one clergyman of that name.
I have a tree with a Priscilla Gardiner born 5 Oct 1680 whose parents were William and Priscilla who were born in Twining or Guiting Grange. Would this be a match?
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Link to thread on one name board to save research repetition
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849931.msg7173505
Good luck ...were your GARDINER s fairly consistent with that spelling ?
Yes for the most part the spelling is Gardiner.
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Have you seen the PCC will of Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhamptonl? He writes it in 1804 stating that he is in his eighty first year. I have only looked at it briefly, but he mentions his grandson Daniel Gardiner Chance - and also his 'kinsman' Warren Hastings. The connection with Daylesford?
No I have not seen the will of Christopher Gardiner. Forgive my ignorance but what is PCC? If you look at the one of the other replies to my original request you will see Warren Hastings' father Pennyston married Priscilla Gardiner. This is the connection to Daylesford.
I need to know how Pennyston Hastings and Priscilla Gardiner are related to Christopher Gardiner and Elizabeth Pool.
I also need help to find Christopher Gardiners birth baptism in about 1722 or 1723 and who his parents were. Thank you for all your help.
Matthew
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Sorry, PCC stands for Prerogative Court of Canterbury. Before 1858 many wills from England and Wales were proved there.
If you have an Ancestry.co.uk subscription, you will be able to find Christopher Gardiner's will on their website. If you don't, you can also download it from the National Archives site - search here for the will of Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhampton:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
At the moment you can do this free of charge, although you have to register with the site (also free).
If you aren't used to reading the script that these wills are written in, there are tutorials on the website to help you, and if there is anything in particular that you aren't sure of you are allowed to post small snippets on Rootschat for help with deciphering.
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Of the children of William Gardiner and Priscilla (nee Freeman) that you mention in your other post, Christopher died unmarried in 1713. The will of Christopher Gardiner of Guiting Power (proved in the court of Gloucestershire diocese) makes his father his executor, mentions brothers Harry and Thomas, 'my sister Hastings', and 'my sister Freeman'.
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I'll have a further look tomorrow to see if I can find anything else useful.
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Sorry, PCC stands for Prerogative Court of Canterbury. Before 1858 many wills from England and Wales were proved there.
If you have an Ancestry.co.uk subscription, you will be able to find Christopher Gardiner's will on their website. If you don't, you can also download it from the National Archives site - search here for the will of Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhampton:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
At the moment you can do this free of charge, although you have to register with the site (also free).
If you aren't used to reading the script that these wills are written in, there are tutorials on the website to help you, and if there is anything in particular that you aren't sure of you are allowed to post small snippets on Rootschat for help with deciphering.
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Of the children of William Gardiner and Priscilla (nee Freeman) that you mention in your other post, Christopher died unmarried in 1713. The will of Christopher Gardiner of Guiting Power (proved in the court of Gloucestershire diocese) makes his father his executor, mentions brothers Harry and Thomas, 'my sister Hastings', and 'my sister Freeman'.
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I'll have a further look tomorrow to see if I can find anything else useful.
Thank you Galium for all your help.
I dont have Ancestry.co.uk but I will search for the Will of Christopher on the nationalarchives website.
The reference to 'my sister Hastings' must mean Priscilla Hastings nee Gardiner who married Pennyston Hastings and had Warren Hastings.
But who is 'my sister Freeman' refering to do you suppose?
Is it possible to know what Christopher Gardiner's profession was?
This is a reminder about what I know
William Gardiner born 1655 Twining Died April 1717 Daylesford
married
Priscilla Freeman born 1660 Twining or Guiting Grange
and had
William born 23 Dec 1678
Priscilla born 5 Oct 1680 married Pennyston Hastings and had Warren Hastings
Thomas born 1683
Christopher born 18 Sept 1685 died 1713
George born 1687
Harrye born 1690
My theory is one of William Thomas George or Harry is the grandfather of Christopher who married Elizabeth Pool
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I have tried and failed to register with the National Archives. When clicking on the link the NA sent me I get this error code NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID which I cant find in the list of errors they provide.
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If you join (it's free, just have to register)
Forest of Dean Family History Trust
https://forest-of-dean.net
Under Resources:
have been transcribed thousands of
Gloucestershire Marriage Licence Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823
(many records have two copies of each i.e. Licence and Bonds (although the surname can be spelt differently) on the Bond and Marriage
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There are 17 GARDNER/GARDINER records for Minchinhampton from 1682 until 1833
In the search engine for Place: just type in Minch
as Minchinhampton has been spelt as
Minchinhampton
Minching Hampton
Minchin Hampton
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This can help form family groups e.g.
When William GARDNER (Broadweaver of Minchinhampton) married Betty LATHAM in 1772
the Bond - gives the names of a Witnesses: The Mark of Luke Gardner of Minchinhampton
the copy Licence" gives his age as 17 and says Betty Latham aged 16 -
Transcriber's notes: James FOWLER of Minchinhampton made oath the Betty Latham's mother gave her consent.
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On the Forest of Dean records : there are 434 FREEMAN's listed
again just for info - When Edward FREEMAN - married in 1751 - residence is listed as Lower Gyting - so place of residence can be spelt in many ways.
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Men in Armour for Gloucestershire 1608
is on Coaley.net. (under the heading of local history)
https://coaley.net
and lists thousands of Gloucestershire men and places of residence.
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Forest of Dean Marriage Allegations
9 January 1822
Daniel Gardiner CHANCE - age over 21
Bachelor
Gentleman
residence: Stonehouse
Hannah Maria EVANS - age over 21
Spinster
residence: Painswick
Marriage by : Licence
He signs
sworn before John WILLIAMS - to marry at Painswick
Daniel Gardiner CHANCE and Thomas PARK of Painswick, Woolstapler, are held and firmly bound in the sum of ? 300
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Re Christopher's profession. In his will he just states 'gentleman'. However, the UK Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811 shows this entry for 1742:
Christopher Gardiner son of Thomas apprenticed to Daniel Burcombe, attorney of Chipping Sodbury, Gloucestershire.
There are some later entries from 1769 to 1791 for apprentices bound to Christopher Gardiner, attorney of Minchinhampton.
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? Family Search
Christopher GARDINER
christening date: 12 Jan 1725
Monmouth, Gloucestershire, England
Newchurch by Chepstow, Monmouth, England
Father's name: Tho. GARDINER
There is also : Christopher GARDINER - tree on Wikipedia - where he states
'I am trying to connect my Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhampton, Gloucestershire in the early 1700's with the Gardiners of Daylesford in the late 1600's. I have letters between Christopher Gardiner and Warren Hastings who were cousins by the marriage of their ancestors William Gardiner and Anne Hastings in the early 1600's.'
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If you Google
Christopher Gardiner and Warren Hastings
Letters are available to read - from Warren Hastings - one from Park Lane 14 Jan 7, 1792
Dear Sir,
I have taken a great liberty, for which I solicit your pardon in the first place, and Mrs Chance's in the second....... etc. etc.. talking about Mrs Chance to present to her daughter.....
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Re Christopher's profession. In his will he just states 'gentleman'. However, the UK Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811 shows this entry for 1742:
Christopher Gardiner son of Thomas apprenticed to Daniel Burcombe, attorney of Chipping Sodbury, Gloucestershire.
There are some later entries from 1769 to 1791 for apprentices bound to Christopher Gardiner, attorney of Minchinhampton.
Fascinating!!! Galium thank you so very much! Another step forward or another generation backward in time! So Christopher's father was called Thomas!
Is it possible, because sometimes similar professions run in the family, that Thomas was an attorney as well????
The next big step is to find out Thomas Gardiner's birth or baptism and his father's name.
The Thomas Gardiner I have in my tree was born in 1683. Could this Thomas be the father of Christopher???
He would have been 39 or 40 when Christopher was born in 1722 or 1723.
Can you tell me now that we have found Elizabeth Gardiner do I need to start a new topic to search for Thomas Gardiner?
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? Family Search
Christopher GARDINER
christening date: 12 Jan 1725
Monmouth, Gloucestershire, England
Newchurch by Chepstow, Monmouth, England
Father's name: Tho. GARDINER
There is also : Christopher GARDINER - tree on Wikipedia - where he states
'I am trying to connect my Christopher Gardiner of Minchinhampton, Gloucestershire in the early 1700's with the Gardiners of Daylesford in the late 1600's. I have letters between Christopher Gardiner and Warren Hastings who were cousins by the marriage of their ancestors William Gardiner and Anne Hastings in the early 1600's.'
Thank you Capetown!
The quotation beginning 'I am trying to connect...' was written by none other than me Matthew Watts.
The only problem with the date of baptism you provided is that it conflicts with the information in Christopher Gardiner's Will written in 1804 which stated he was in his 81st year which would put his date of birth at 1723 or 1722.
If this is the correct Christopher Gardiner and he was born in 1725 he would have been seventy nine in 1804 when he wrote his will. Please read copy of his will to verify age in 1804 when he wrote his Will. Thank you.
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If you Google
Christopher Gardiner and Warren Hastings
Letters are available to read - from Warren Hastings - one from Park Lane 14 Jan 7, 1792
Dear Sir,
I have taken a great liberty, for which I solicit your pardon in the first place, and Mrs Chance's in the second....... etc. etc.. talking about Mrs Chance to present to her daughter.....
Thank you Capetown
The avid genealogists in my fathers family have had printed copies of three letters between Christopher Gardiner (my great x5 grandfather) and Warren Hastings one dated 1792 and others in 1802 from Daylesford and 1808 from London for more than three generations but no one told me how important Warren Hastings was until I discovered it for myself.
I also have in my possession a miniature brass plate of Christopher's ancestor William Gardiner 1606 1632 who married Warren Hastings ancestor Anne Hastings daughter of Simon Hastings of Daylesford.
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Thank you Galium and Capetown for all your help researching Elizabeth Gardiner's family and helping discover her grandfather Thomas.
So Thomas Gardiner was the father of five surviving children according to Christopher Gardiners Will written in 1804 in his 81st year.
According to Galium Warren Hastings (1732-1818) was the son of a Penyston (other spellings also occur) Hastings. Pennyston Hastings married Priscilla Gardiner at Guiting Power, Gloucestershire 18 January 1703/4, and baptised a son of the same name there on 27 February 1704/5.
So Pennyston Hastings baptised 27 Feb 1704/5 married ? was the father of Warren Hastings. Right?
According to the information in my handwritten family tree
William Gardiner 1606 1632 married Ann Hastings daughter of Simon Hastings of Daylesford
William (son of William) 1632 1673 of Daylesford and Guiting Grange married Barbara Horde of Guiting Grange and Daylesford
William (son of William) 1655 1717 of Twining and Daylesford married Priscilla Freeman
and had
William b 23 Dec 1678
Priscilla b 5 Oct 1680
Thomas b 1683
Christopher b 18 Sept 1685
George b 1687
Harrye b 1690
Is Galium's Priscilla Gardiner who married Pennyston Hastings 18 January 1703/4 and the Priscilla Gardiner born 1680 daughter of William Gardiner and Priscilla in my family tree the same person or not?
How are Christopher Gardiner and Warren Hastings related exactly?
Who can help me figure this all out??
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I'm going off on a tangent from your main query, but on the assumption that it might eventually help tie things together...
The will of Christopher Gardiner son of William who died in 1713 mentions his sisters 'Hastings' and 'Freeman'.
Your list of baptisms of children of William and Priscilla Gardiner at Guiting Power only includes one daughter, Priscilla, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that she is the woman who married Penyston Hastings.
But there has to be another sister, who married a man named Freeman.
I would suggest Barbara Gardiner, d/o Mr Gardiner (that is what the PR says) baptised 20 April 1682.
I think this is her marriage at St Benet Paul's Wharf, London:
20 October 1709 Kemmet Freeman of the Middle Temple, London and Barbara Gardiner of St Martin in the Fields, Mddx.
Kemmet and Barbara lived in London for a while, baptising a son, Kemmet at St Martin in the Fields on 27 December 1711, but later returned to Gloucestershire, baptising children at Twyning:
John b1714 d1714
Barbara b1716
John b1718
Priscilla b1720
Anna b1722
Kemmet Freeman was buried at Twyning in 1749. The list of Oxford Univerity alumni has an entry for him which states that his father's name was Charles. So if this is accurate:
https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/130716/I24722/kemmet-freeman/individual
it seems possible that Charles Freeman was a brother of Priscilla Gardiner née Freeman.
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Thank you Galium for this extra information which is very interesting and expands my knowledge of the Gardiner family.
I would like to know more about the education and professions of the Gardiner family. They seem as if they were all moving in high circles.
Let me know if you find out anymore about Elizabeth, her father Christopher and grandfather Thomas and the possible connection to William and Priscilla Gardiners children stated before.
Thank you so much.
The link below shows Priscilla Gardiner (X2) marrying Pennyston Hastings (9) but shows the mother of Pennyston was Elizabeth Creswicke
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dav4is/genealogy/ODTs/HASTINGS.shtml#WINGFIELD7_1
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As you know who Elizabeth's parents are I'm not sure whether you already have this:
Minchinhampton - 4 August 1749 baptism of Elizabeth d/o Christopher and Elizabeth Gardner
Gloucestershire marriage licence allegation: 15 September 1748
Christopher Gardiner age 23 bachelor of Minchinhampton
Elizabeth Pool age 21 spinster of Minchinhampton
to marry at St Mary de Crypt [in Gloucester]
I want to request more information from Galium
Please send me the source link for the information you found for me above earlier this year. Thank you so much.
Matthew Watts
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Have found a link to a document at the National Archives naming many of the Gardiner family members in a court case
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10448276
Short title: Partheriche v Gardiner.
Document type: Bill and answer.
Plaintiffs: Edward Partheriche the elder, esq late of Alveston, Warwickshire now of Ely, Cambridgeshire.
Defendants: William Higford, Thomas Gardiner and Catherine Gardiner his wife, William Gardiner the son, Thomas Gardiner the son, Christopher Gardiner, Priscilla Gardiner, Harry Gardiner, Barbara Gardiner and Hannah Gardiner.
Date of bill (or first document): 1730
Can someone view this and explain what was going on in this case? Thank you.
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I want to request more information from Galium
Please send me the source link for the information you found for me above earlier this year. Thank you so much.
Matthew Watts
Details of Gloucestershire marriage licences can be found on the Forest of Dean Family History Trust site in the resources section:
https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/
You need to register, but it's all free.
I think the Gloucestershire Archives website also has transcriptions, but I haven't checked for that one.
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Dear Galium
I already checked this website and found no mention of their marriage but according to one of your earlier messages according to their marriage license allegation dated sept 15 1748 they were to be married in St. Mary de Crypt in Gloucester which would have occurred later in the autumn 1748 or spring 1749.
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Not exactly sure what you are asking. The marriage licence allegation transcript most definitely is on the Forest of Dean database. It can also be found in the Gloucestershire archives online catalogue:
https://gloucestershire.epexio.com/records/GDR/17/3/51/106
I have found that marriages by licence usually took place within a week of the licence being issued, sometimes even on the same day. Although the allegation names the church where the marriage is expected to take place (occasionally alternatives are given), sometimes the couple actually marry elsewhere.
I have just checked the register for St Mary de Crypt - which unfortuately shows no marriages at all for September 1748.
So, perhaps they married in a different place. Perhaps they married at St Mary de Crypt and for some reason the clerk neglected to record it in the register.
Or perhaps Christopher Gardiner and Elizabeth Pool didn't marry at all, and Christopher married a different Elizabeth at some point between getting the licence and baptising his first child at Minchinhampton on 4 September 1749 (I don't know why Ancestry has indexed this baptism as 4 September 1748: the register clearly reads 1749).
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Dear Galium
My apologies for not making it clear what I was asking for. When I originally looked in the Forest of Dean website I got distracted looking for the baptism of Christopher in the early 1720s as you had found this record
Christopher GARDINER
christening date: 12 Jan 1725
Monmouth, Gloucestershire, England
Newchurch by Chepstow, Monmouth, England
Father's name: Tho. GARDINER
Newchurch by Chepstow would be considered the Forest of Dean so that is why I was looking for that record in that place. I never considered that the city of Gloucester was part of the Forest of Dean so assumed the marriage allegation was in a different place.
I think it likely they changed their marriage plans and married in a different place and more unlikely and very coincidental that they didnt marry and between 15 Sept 1748 and 4 Sept 1749 they separated and he just happened to meet and marry another Elizabeth.
In 1742 you found the record of Christopher Gardiner son of Thomas being apprenticed to Daniel Burcombe attorney of Chipping Sodbury. Maybe by 1748 1749 he was finishing his apprenticeship and had found employment somewhere else.
I need to find out more about Thomas Gardiner his father. Is there evidence of other children born in Newchurch by Chepstow to Thomas. Is there a record of his wife's name? Was he an attorney as well? What clues should I be looking for to identify the correct Thomas Gardiner which was a quite a common name ?
Is it becoming more intriguing and I inherited from my father and from his father's aunt an heirloom of a minature brass of William Gardiner 1606 to 1632 as well as a photo of his portrait but I cant see how to insert the image here.
Thank you so much for all your help and advice.
Matt
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Dear Galium
As a follow up. How can I be sure that the Christopher son of Thomas who was baptised in Jan 1725 is the same Christopher son Thomas who was apprenticed in Chipping Sodbury to Daniel Burcombe in 1742? He would have been only 17 which seems very young to become an apprentice attorney. Can you send me the link shows me the record of this apprenticeship or did you already do this and is Christopher's age given in this record?
Thank you so much.
Matt
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Dear Galium
Have found the record of Christopher Gardiner son Thomas in UK, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811 and saved it to my tree as I have a limited membership to Ancestry.com.
Thank you for leading me to the information.
Matt