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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: trekcuber on Tuesday 29 June 21 00:53 BST (UK)
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Hi there, My ancestor Barbary Oliver married Robert Whillans on 25 Nov 1808 in Southdean (they were both of the parish). Their first 4 children were: John, Margaret, Thomas, Mary.
Robert was the s/o John and Mary Whillans. Women in naming patterns have always been inconsitent in my family, so is Margaret Barbary's mother? There is a baptism here that could be her:
Barbara Oliver on 08 Jan 1783 in Southdean, Roxburgh, Scotland to Thomas Oliver.
Barbary/a and Robert moved to Canada, so they dont have death records that say parents. Her gravestone said she died on 23 Sep 1855 aged 74, which gives a bdate of ~1781.
Probelm is -- Robert's sister Jean married Thomas Oliver and had children Mary and William. It looks like this is a case of siblings marrying into the same family -- and there isn't a baptism for Thomas to a Thomas in Southdean (where Thos and Jean were md) -- does anyone (dis)agree with Barbar(a/y) and Thos being siblings? Does anyone think Thos is both of their parents? (There isn't a death record in Roxburgh County for Thos).
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At this stage, you don't have enough information to prove or disprove your theory.
My only suggestion would be to widen your research as much as possible and hope that, in time, you will find something to link Barbara to her family of origin.
Good luck!
Regards,
Josephine
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I agree with Josephine.
There were 2 Barbary Olivers in Southdean who married there;
25 Nov 1808 you couple
06 Jul 1804 Barbary OLIVER to James SINTON
I note also Thomas Oliver was of *leburgh Parish when he married 1804.
I presume this is Jedburgh.
Info above on FreeREG.
Also on F/S.Org is
BARBARY Oliver christened 18 January 1781 Jedburgh, Roxburghshire
Parents; Adam Oliver/Betty Familton
There is a THOMAS christened 10 August 1783 to them also
So a bit of a difficult one
Trish :)
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I note the 1780 marriage on family search, sadly it is not on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk as far as I can see.The birth of their first child is on SP but not the others?
As mentioned there is another birth/baptism on SP, 4 miles from Southdean. There were 6 other children in the family.
BARBARA OLIVER ADAM OLIVER/BETTY FAMILTON 18/01/1781 Jedburgh
Colin
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Huh, I had seen this Barbara, but on FS it links it to a different marriage (which I will have to track down). And thank you all for helping!
ADDED: The Barbara Oliver baptised to Adam Oliver in 1781 was married to John Murdie and had 3 children- death certif dated 6 Feb 1867 and says:
cert. shows Barbara Murdie as 87, married to John Murdie , farmer; Dtr of Adam Oliver, farmer, and Elizabeth maiden surname Familton, both dec'd; Died 4:30am of old age; Inf. daughter Betty Murdie, present; Reg. 6th. So, maybe her and Thomas aren't brothers?
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There is a Whillans one name study on the GOONS website, run by Frank Whillans in Australia, sorry my reply is very late, but if you have already been in touch with him please do, he can provide info on your Robert Whillans and will be happy to hear from you,
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I have, Frank has so much good information! Unfortunately it is a one name study, which does not extend to the Oliver’s. Thank you for mentioning it though!
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I note the 1780 marriage on family search, sadly it is not on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk as far as I can see.
The only marriage I can find on FS in 1780 of an Adam to a B* is Adam Brown to Barbara Gill in Peebles on 5 November. It's also on SP.
Can you replicate your search and find again the one you found before?
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I put 1780 in error should be 1808 as original post.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQB-KP2
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The marriage is on SP I obviously got my dates mixed up, I have reached that age when the memory begins to fade!
WHILLANS
ROBERT
BARBARY OLIVER
25/11/1808
SOUTHDEAN AND ABBOTRULE
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I have, Frank has so much good information! Unfortunately it is a one name study, which does not extend to the Oliver’s. Thank you for mentioning it though!
See https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Oliver_Surname_on_the_Scottish_Borde.html?id=bQQxMQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
Colonel Winston H. Oliver was an acknowledged authority on the Oliver surname in the Borders. He lived at Blainslie, which is near Galashiels though in the parish of Melrose.
Harry
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I note the 1780 marriage on family search, sadly it is not on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk as far as I can see.The birth of their first child is on SP but not the others?
As mentioned there is another birth/baptism on SP, 4 miles from Southdean. There were 6 other children in the family.
BARBARA OLIVER ADAM OLIVER/BETTY FAMILTON 18/01/1781 Jedburgh
Colin
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I've just posted the 1808 marriage entry from Scotlandspeople. Middle of the page. Other Olivers are mentioned on the page.
Harry
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I put 1780 in error should be 1808 as original post.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQB-KP2
Ah.
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Two brothers of James Hogg (1770-1835) 'the Ettrick Shepherd' married Olivers.
David Hogg married Helen Oliver in 1810 and Robert Hogg married Elizabeth Oliver in 1807. Both couples, and their children, emigrated to the United States in 1833, although Robert never arrived - he died on board the 'Romulus' en route.
The parents of Helen were Samuel Oliver and Isabel Millar. I do not know who Elizabeth's parents were. I have no evidence to suggest that they have any connection to your Barbara Oliver.
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See https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Oliver_Surname_on_the_Scottish_Borde.html?id=bQQxMQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
Colonel Winston H. Oliver was an acknowledged authority on the Oliver surname in the Borders. He lived at Blainslie, which is near Galashiels though in the parish of Melrose.
Harry
I've just gone through my copy of that book and I didn't see any mention of a Barbara or Barbary Oliver.
Regards,
Josephine
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I'm not descended from any Whillans or Oliver myself, and my closest connection to both surnames is that my great-grandmother Martha Stewart from Hawick had a sister, Jane Murray Stewart, who in 1872 married a George Whillans at Upper Samieston, Jedburgh.
George Whillans was the son of George Whillans and Mary Oliver who were married in 1833 at Camptown, Jedburgh. Mary Oliver died in 1888 and her death certificate gives her parents as Robert Oliver, joiner, and Elizabeth Robert. I haven't found a marriage for this couple. Maybe Mary Oliver was illegitimate, although the death certificate says that Robert was her mother's M.S. (maiden surname).
Harry
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The 1861 census for Mary says that she was born near Edinburgh. Maybe she wasn't connected to the Roxburghshire Olivers?
Found here: https://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1080&h=2885638&ssrc=pt&tid=164173685&pid=372265908189&usePUB=true&_gl=1*o8vhdl*_ga*MTE1ODI3Mzk4MS4xNjQwMzA0NzQy*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY3NTk1Mjg3OC40MTMuMS4xNjc1OTUzMzA3LjQxLjAuMA..*_ga_B2YGR3SSMB*Zjk2MGY3MjktYWFhMC00ZTEyLWE1Y2EtYzIyOGE3ZDUwZjcxLjU1My4xLjE2NzU5NTMzMTAuMS4wLjA.
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Or she was descended from one of the many Borders families who moved up to Edinburgh in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Back in the 1980s I corresponded with a retired Northern Ireland civil servant, Dr. John A. Oliver, who had set himself the seemingly impossible task of trying to find out whereabouts in Scotland his Olivers had come from. He did a fair amount of research on the Borders Olivers, and wrote a couple of articles for the Ulster family-history journal FAMILIA. He and I both had an article in the 1988 journal about our respective ancestors. I was luckier than him because my Co. Down Pettigrew ancestors were mentioned in a genealogical manuscript in the Linen Hall library in Belfast, which a researcher (called Pettigrew!) was happy to check for me.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/northern-civil-servant-of-outstanding-ability-john-oliver-1.1012125
Harry
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The 1861 census for Mary says that she was born near Edinburgh. Maybe she wasn't connected to the Roxburghshire Olivers?
Actually it says she was born in the county of Midlothian, which could mean in the city of Edinburgh or in one of the rural parishes, for example Stow, which is (just!) closer to Jedburgh than it is to Edinburgh.
The 1841 says she was born in Roxburghshire. The 1851 says she was born in Edinburgh, Midlothian. The 1871 says she was born in Jedburgh, Roxburghshire and the 1881 says she was born in Edinburgh, Midlothian.
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The 1841 says she was born in Roxburghshire. The 1851 says she was born in Edinburgh, Midlothian. The 1871 says she was born in Jedburgh, Roxburghshire and the 1881 says she was born in Edinburgh, Midlothian.
50/50...it would be worth knowing who was giving the info. on each which may sway things a tad?
Annie