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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: emmadog on Tuesday 21 September 21 20:50 BST (UK)
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I have been trying to find Mary Ellen Mallachin/ Johnson since I found her with my grandfather, their mother, step father and stepbrother on the 1911 Census.
I had not known anything about my grandfather until 1911 census was published. I had been told (by his only living child that he was born 9 June 1900 but found out that the year was actually 1899 and he was born in Gateshead workhouse as per birth certificate. His sister was born 10 September 1901 as on her baptism record but I have never found a birth registration for her. On baptism record she is Maria Helena Mallachin daughter of Margaretha Mallachin. Presumably RC.
Her mother married a Charles Johnson in 1904 but he died a few months after. Both children were then known as Johnson. Their mother then married a Thomas Coyne in South Shields begore moving to Blyth.
Mary Ellen only appeared on 1911 census and then on my grandparents marriage certificate and nowhere else after. I have kept going back to her and now have found her via marriage record but I wonder if it was normal for children not to have birth registered or is it just an oversight somewhere in the system.
Thanks in advance.
Emma.
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Failure to register a birth became a fineable offence in 1874/5
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I thought there were some rules but wasn’t quite sure from when they applied. I am now at the “brick wall” stage with her yet again.
There is also no record of the family in the 1901 census. As the mother was from Scotland I have looked in Scotlands people records to no avail. Grrrrrr!
Emma.
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There is this marriage
Marriages Sep 1924 (>99%)
Johnson Mary E (Henry) Beddow Tynemouth 10b 389
Followed by
BEDDOW - Blyth. 4 Clark St (the residence of her parents) 16th inst age 29 years
Mary Ellen (née Mary COYNE) d.b.w. of Henry BEDDOW
Interment Cowpen Cemetery. Deeply mourned
Deaths Dec 1931 (>99%)
Beddow Mary E 29 Newcastle T. 10b 170
Added Newspaper 17 December 1931 - Blyth News - Blyth, Northumberland
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Hi mckha489, well that piece of information made me think. The bit with her maiden name nee Coyne but I should have realised that Coyne was her stepfather's surname.
She was born Mallachin, it changed to Johnson after her mother married in 1904 (maybe this man was their father.) then she married Henry Beddow. This is the most recent breakthrough in my tree but just puzzled as why I cannot find any registration for her birth.
Even stranger is that I think she had a daughter(June) born 25 June 1931 same year she died but there is no birth registration for her either but there is one for her in Sept 1934 mother being Henrys second wife. Sooooo puzzling.
Emma
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Thinking about pronunciation in a thick accent I wonder about this birth with no MMN
MONAGHAN, MARY ELLEN -
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 1102
Added… forget that. Looks as though she died 1904
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Have you got them in 1939? (Henry and June and wife?).
See later
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Well, to complicate matters … subsequent to Mary Ellen’s death notice there was a thank you notice and Henry Beddow was of Freehold Street.
In 10 December 1934 - Blyth News - Blyth, is a report describing the accidental drowning of Henry Beddow of Freehold street. He is 32. He does have a widow.
There is a photograph.
More discussion here. 10 December 1934 - Blyth News. Talks about his unemployment etc, sympathy to widow and a”brief married life”. No mention of a new child
Death notice says 36 Freehold Street.
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Bit of a ramble here
Found second wife and new husband and blacked out person who is presumably June. It would be interesting to see her date of birth there.
Can’t help thinking the 1934 date is probably the correct one. It fits in a timeline of the 1933 marriage of Henry Beddow to Alexandra MAYNE.
Mayne Alexandra E G M Beddow Tynemouth 10b 204. March qrtr 1933
But, she did also have a son
Births Mar 1930 (>99%)
Mayne John R Parr Tynemouth 10b 478
I can’t see a pre 1939 death for him, so if it’s June under the black line, where is John.
(I think father also John R died 1931)
Little son “Jack” still alive in memorial notice for father 28 January 1932 - Blyth News
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On baptism record she is Maria Helena Mallachin daughter of Margaretha Mallachin.
Hi Emma - Is there an address/abode on her 1901 baptism record?
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Image should be on a Family Search film number 2046500
Locked :-(
(It's St Joseph's Catholic Church, Gateshead)
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https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article/34814/Search-historical-births-deaths-and-marriages-records
Just in case you might not have the date of mentioned marriage, the South Shields website gives this info:
Thomas Coyne married Margaret Johnston/Mallichan on 3 March 1906
R75 (Non Anglican marriage code so possibly RC or registry office.) Entry 82.
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Hi RTL, that was the second marriage of my ggm. I hadn’t known about it probably being a RC marriage (presumably that’s what register R75 means) but am not surprised as her daughter Mary Ellen (who my post started off with) has baptism record on FS which has names in Latin. Also Margaret and Thomas’s son went to catholic school in Blyth.
My dad also told a tale of my grandad standing at the fence of catholic school crying to go to that school. Not sure which school he went to but most kids stand outside crying because they don’t want to go to school.
Thanks for your input and another snippet I’ve learned.
Emma.
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Mckha489. Sorry I fell asleep last night with all this going round in my head. Anyhow I have been having another look at everything.
Firstly I was wondering how you came across the info regarding Henry Beddow’s death and if there was any way I could get a copy of the photo you mentioned.
I came across a f. Tree with June Beddow on it and it definitely states her dob as 25 June 1931 but says mother being Parr. The tree belongs to the family of her third husband. (Must say all people mentioned are deceased.)
With regards to her son from Mayne marriage I have found him on 1939 records living with a Maggie Gutherless who on investigation was Alexandras older sister. There is a death record for him Feb 1990 John Robson Mayne. He has been Robertson, Roberson and lastly Robson.
Sorry for the tome but its all going round in my head.
Enna.
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Sleeping on a problem is always helpful :)
At June’s death her birth is certainly given as the 1931 one. But as we know these things are only as accurate as the person supplying the information.
Her birth registration is clearly Parr and 1934. I would have thought by that period, that would be the more reliable fact.
Henry’s death was in the newspapers which I access through FindMyPast, but you can also access via the British Newspaper Archive, if you have never used that before you can register and download 3 things as a free trial.
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
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Thank you very much for your help.
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Thinking about pronunciation in a thick accent I wonder about this birth with no MMN
MONAGHAN, MARY ELLEN -
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 1102
Added… forget that. Looks as though she died 1904
Playing devil's advocate, I think the Monaghan birth in Q3 1901 may still be a contender.
there was also a Mary Ellen Monaghan, registered in Gateshead in Q4 1901, MMN McCormick.
Marriages Q4 1900 John Monaghan and Catherine McCormick
and the child who died in 1904 was buried at Gateshead East on 9th Feb 1904, age said to be 2 and was the daughter of John Monaghan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-H9G8-8?
emmadog, it may be worth a shot to email Gateshead Registrars , explain that you have been unable to source a birth reg with the surname Mallachin and that the Mary Ellen Monaghan registered in Q3 Gateshead is an outside chance possible.
Ask if they have time to check the register and be able to confirm/deny whether the mother was Margaret (no father listed) and the child was born 1st Sept.
Way back pre- pandemic Gateshead Registrars were willing to answer email queries like that, they may not have the staff/time atm but its worth an ask? - shy bairns get nowt :-)
Boo
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Thanks tickettyboo. That is how I eventually found my granddads I did not know what name he was registered under (or had never even heard of the name Mallachin). as you say they were helpful so was able to get the correct certificate, without wasting any money! I was wondering if Mary Ellen was also born in Gateshead workhouse as was my grandad. quite a shock! but as I was born at Preston my daughter always says I was born in the workhouse. Daughters!!!
thanks for info will let you know.
Emma.
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Hi Ticketty Boo, I did as you suggested and e mailed Gateshead Register Office but did not get a reply so for the moment I’m at stalemate. At least now I know she was a real person but it would be nice to know where she was born.
Thanks to everyone for their help. It means so much when your heads in such a muddle to get different views from ithers.
Thanks
Barbara.
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Hi Barbara
I really do sympathise, I too had a long standing problem with a birth reg that did not seem to exist, but the child was baptised (with the correct surname or at least a variation that sounded the same)
Again it was a family who had come to the North East from Ireland. They had a whole squad of children and I had got them all bar one. (there's always one!)
After a very long time I found him. the surname was McGarrigall (or any variation you can think of plus a few you wouldn't)
He'd been registered as McGallagher!
Close, but it took me a while to win the coconut:-)
Given the current number of covid infections there are perhaps the Registrars are short staffed at the moment, its shame as my experience of Gateshead Registrars is that they are willing to help, but perhaps are unable to at the moment as they have other, more immediate, duties to carry out.
I'm assuming that this is the baptism record you have at St Joseph's, Rc , Gateshead
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJFB-8D7
Gives a birth date of 10 Sept 1901
As there is no father named (and the priest would have asked - repeatedly and vociferously!) then we can safely assume she was illegitimate. Given that the LDS would have indexed info for both parents, if that was in the record that's another indication that she was illegitimate rather than an error in the transcription.
I looked again at births registered in 1901, Gateshead on Free BMD , specifying a first name of Mary and a surname as M*, limited it to Gateshead and Sep 1901 to Dec 1901 (Q4 would be pushing it to have the birth registered within the limit of six weeks, but it sometimes happened)
I downloaded those results and looked at each in turn (no matter how close or far away from a version of Mallachin the surname was, and no matter what, if anything, was shown as a middle name)
The only entry that comes up as not having a MMN recorded is the
Q3 1901 Mary Ellen MONAGHAN
which is the one you asked the Registrars about.
As the registrars aren't able to help you at the moment, I am afriad that your only option is to take a punt at getting the pdf from the GRO. Not cheap at £7 a pop, but I can't think of any other way.
If you go that route and the mother is Margaret, and hopefully it has an address that looks likely to be a match, then I'd say that on balance its the right record.
Boo
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Thanks again Ticketty Boo for all your help. I was wondering if there is a way you can find census records for the workhouse. I.e. her brother (my grandad) was born 1899 in gateshead workhouse and I suspect she may also have been born there. I have had a look but am not sure if there is a way to find 1901 census fir the family. As Margarets family came from Edinburgh i had wondered if they were there but nothing there.
Oh well I suppose its just a waiting game.
Thanks so much
Barbara.
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The 1901 census was taken on 31 March 1901, so you are unlikely to find Mary Ellen on that as she wasn't born till September.
According to http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Gateshead/ very few records survive for Gateshead Workhouse
I've checked Tyne and Wear Archives user guides for Poor law records https://twarchives.org.uk/collection/user-guides-and-information
and they don't seem to have anything listed that would refer to this time frame for admissions/discharges /births.
If Mary Ellen had been born in the workhouse I'd assume that her birth would be registered, the workhouse staff would have been aware of the need to do so and would ensure it was done?
So, you said you have the family on the 1911 census, but didn't say where or with what surname. If you can tell me that then I'll try the 1901 census again, with Margaret's approx birth year.
IF she was in Gateshead in March then given her birth year I'd have a better chance of trying to find a Margaret , born Scotland.
Boo
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I've looked at Gateshead Union Workhouse, which was at High Teams , on the 1901 census
The reference is
Piece 4760
Folio 199
Though I searched for a Margaret, no surname or year of birth specified and came up with 3 results, DOWNEY, DAWSON and FOSTER, all said to be born in Co. Durham, nothing resembling MALLACHIN
Boo
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Wow, you have been busy. 1911 census the family are in Blyth. There is Margaret b. 26 May 1869 in Edinburgh, her husband Thomas Coyne (they married in 1906 south Shields), their son Thomas b 1909 Blyth, Charles Johnson B 1899 Gateshead, Mary Ellen Johnson B 1901 b Gateshead. Margaret married a Charles Johnson in June 1/4 1904 and he died Sept 1/4 1904. That is where the name Johnson came from but who knows if he was their father or not. I have found records for all of Margaret’s family in Scotland but there seems to be a cloud over 1899-1911.
Barbara
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So this looks to be the family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWM2-SFQ
and the ages of Margaret, Charles and Mary Ellen are all a bit 'out', and Mary Ellen's birthplace 'does' say Gateshead but as her step father completed the form, 'perhaps' his information was not that reliable?
I'm not finding Margaret and her son Charles in 1901 either, sorry.
Margaret's first husband, Charles Johnson , death reg Q3 1904, Gateshead , age 30
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 9th September 1904 page 2 col 1
Deaths
JOHNSON - Gateshead, 15 Hillgate, on 7th inst., aged 34 years.
Charles, the dearly beloved husband of Margaret Johnson.
Interment on Sunday. All friends kindly invited.
(age at death in notice is different to death reg & burial record, maybe a misprint?)
Burial register, Gateshead East Cemetery, buried 11 Sept 1904
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-H9KP-H?
and Grave register for that grave showing his brother Joseph, Mam Mary and Dad William were also interred in that grave
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3VC-89MS-W?
His Dad ran a boarding house at 15 Hillgate, according to both 1901 and 1891 census returns
1901 Census Piece 4756, Folio 34, page 60
1891 Census Piece 4180, Folio 104, page 48
I was hoping that Margaret may have been one of his lodgers in 1901 but sadly not.
Boo
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In reply 3 mckha489 gave you a marriage of Mary Ellen Johnson to Henry Beddow in 1924
and a Death Notice 17 Dec 1931 from Blyth news.
I'm a big fan of In Memoriam notices to help confirm a death is for the person I was looking for. This family kept them up for a long time and each time there were more clues to confirm it was the Mary Ellen you were looking for - its like they were leaving a trail of breadcrumbs a little at a time :-)
I looked a year after her death and there were two In Memoriam Notices
Blyth News 15 Dec 1932 page 1 col 6
BEDDOW - In memory of my dear wife, Mary Ellen who died Dec 16th 1931
I heard her singing long, long ago,
I still remember her song;
I hear her singing when lights are low,
Tho' she's been silent so long.
Ever remembered by her loving husband
Henry Beddow
BEDDOW - In loving memory if our dear daughter, Mary Ellen, who died December 16th 1931.
Never forgotten by her loving mother, father, brothers, sister in law and nieces Pat and Margaret; also dear friends.
Secret thoughts, a silent tear
Keeps her memory ever dear,
There was another In Memoriam the following year
Blyth News 18 Dec 1933, page 1 col 4
BEDDOW - In loving memory of our dear daughter Mary Ellen, died December 16th 1931. Sadly missed by her dear mother, father, brothers, sister in law Lily, nieces Patsy and Margaret
That one was repeated almost word for word, the following year on 17 Dec 1934, page 2 col 1
In 1935 it appeared again, this time just from mother, father and brothers
Blyth News 17 Dec 1936 page 2 col 1 (BINGO! this gives names for the brothers)
Beddow In loving memory of Mary Ellen Beddow died Dec 16th 1931 Ever remembered by her loving father and mother, brothers Charles and Tommy, sister in law Lily, nieces Patsy and Margaret
Blyth News 16 Dec 1937 page 2 col 1 (Lottery jackpot win!)
BEDDOW In loving memory of Mary Ellen (nee Johnson), died Dec 16th 1932 (ok so the paper misprinted the year of death) Ever remembered by her mother, father, brothers and sister in law Lily.
Blyth News 15 Dec 1938 page 2 col 1
The notice from 1936 is repeated word for word, which confirms that all the people mentioned were still alive
(I was hoping it would go that bit further and give me the address where she was born!)
and no more after 1938.
Blyth News 11 Sept 1939 p2 col 1
Deaths
COYNE - Blyth 24 Willow Avenue 10th inst., aged 69 years, Thomas dearly beloved husband of Margaret Coyne. Interment Cowpen Cemetery Wednesday leaving residence 2.45 pm R.I.P.
Blyth News 09 Sep 1940 p 2 col 1
COYNE - In loving memory of my dear father Thomas, died September 10 1939. Deep in our hearts a memory is kept of one we loved and will never forget, Ever remembered by his loving son and daughter-in-law Tommy and Belle.
So Thomas died just before the 1939 Register was compiled
Blyth News 09 May 1940 p2 c 1
Deaths
COYNE - Blyth 24 Willow Avenue May 7th, Margaret dearly loved wife of the late Thomas Coyne. Interment Cowpen Cemetery Friday leaving residence at 2.30 pm Friends please accept this intimation. R.I.P
Blyth News 08 May 1941 page 2 col 1
COYNE In loving memory of my dear mother, Margaret, died May 7 1940. Ever remembered by her loving son Tommy, daughter-in-law Belle.
and Margaret should appear on the 1939 register at the address in the notice as they were there before the register was compiled and she was still there when she died.
Boo
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Wow, wow, wow you have been so busy and I’m so very grateful to you.
You are right about the newspaper items as they definitely confirm she was my great aunt. The two young girls mentioned in a couple were Pat (Patsy) and Margaret who was my mother. Lily was my nanna Elizabeth who was always known as Lily.
I have now done what you suggested and ordered pdf from register office for the ?? Birth cert.
I have still not heard from the person on Anc site about June Beddoe who I still suspect as being Mary Ellens daughter but no proof. June was born in the June before Mary Ellen died in December but again there was no birth reg until 1934 (mother Parr who was Henry’s second wife). However on family tree (Anc) and her death she is stated to have been born in 1931.
What a puzzling family I have. Luckily my dad’s side have been mostly straight forward.
Thanks, Barbara.
Ps will let you know when I receive PDF.
Pps forgot to say Margaret was still at that address on 1939 living on her own.
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Re: June Beddow born 25 June 1931 who you think may have been the child of Mary Ellen
I found the tree with this info on, though it says she was born 25 June 1931 if, like me, you are of a nosey nature and want to track HOW the tree owner came to that conclusion, click to see the England & Wales Births Index image that is linked to that birth date.
THAT registration for Beddow with MMN Parr is in Q3 1934. So 'is' the child of Harry Beddow and his second wife and is highly likely to be the redacted entry on the 1939 register that you have. She is either still alive or, as she was born less than 100 years ago, no one has provided a death cert to have the entry opened.
The other source the tree has was a death reg in 2004, and that did give a birth date of 25 June 1931.
Its highly likely that the tree owner has got the wrong parents for the lady who died in 2004, they certainly have the wrong birth reg (and I suspect the wrong death reg though haven't poked around to find out).
Check the 1939 register using the exact birthdate of 25 June 1931 and first name +surname at death on that tree for the lady who died in 2004 is on there, in Northumberland, but she's definitely not the child of Harry Beddow either with Mary Ellen or his second wife.
Bottom line is, no matter where the info comes from, some odd woman on RC (me!) a tree, family 'lore' etc etc, check it out carefully yourself in the available records to see if it is accurate.
Everyone, no matter how helpful or experienced, is capable of taking a wrong turn somewhere along the line.
Boo
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Hi Boo. I have recieved the pdf from register office yesterday (a surprise as it was Saturday). Anyhow the date of birth is exactly the same as baptism record and she was born in Gateshead Workhouse same as my grandad. So your hunch about the Monaghan birth proved tobe correct.
Today I thought lets have a quick look on 1901 census with the name Monaghan and have come up with one record for a Margaret but nothing for Charles. If this is the correct record for Margaret she appears to be a resident of H.M. In prison!!! Nothing surprises me now. One thing about the record is that I cannot read her occupation. Starts with an R but cannot guess at the rest. Not a prostitute as I can read that easily on an above name.
Oh well, just thought I would keep you ip to date. And the £7 was worth every penny.
One million thanks to you Barbara.
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Pleased the birth cert turned out as you wanted.
Charles was living with his Dad at 15 Hillgate, Gateshead in 1901, see reply 24 for the census refs this is the transcript from Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSCY-NQD
Where was the Margaret you found in 1901? If you can give me the reference of where you found the census/ prison/court record there may be something in the newspapers to help to confirm/deny its the right record? To look I'd need some clues as to where she was held / where she had been sentenced.
Boo
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Hi Boo. Sorry I’m not sure what you mean by ref (bit thick!!) but all I put in Anc search was Margaret Monaghan b. 1869.the prison is HM prison Newcastle on tyne, All Saints. The census says she is married and born Newcastle but I thought it might answer why she is missing on census I was looking for earlier. Sorry my mistake with the Charles. I did mean her son Charles b. 1899 who was then named Mallichan or variant. She married Charles Johnson in 1904.
Barbara.
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She is a rag gatherer.
Reference is
Piece: 4787
Folio: 128
Page Number: 9
Household Schedule Number: 1
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Thanks mckha489 for the info. I did wonder about the ref but not sure. I now know and am learning so much from you friendly rootschatters. As regards to her occupation (if it is actually her) my husband said ragamuffin so he was close!! I’m usually pretty good but just evaded me. Think my eyes are fed up and are just about ready to give up😂😂😂
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I am still veering towards a 'misheard' surname that the registrar made their best shot at it and plumped for Monaghan - rather than Margaret using a different surname when she registered the birth. If she had her baptised with the surname Mallachin, then she would have given that surname when she registered the birth.
Who registered the birth? Was it Margaret or perhaps someone from the workhouse?
If it was someone from the workhouse, perhaps it was them who had misheard the name?
If Margaret registered the birth and hadn't had the opportunity to learn to read and write (still quite common back then, especially for girls) then she may have had no idea that the surname wasn't right?
What does each column in the register say? (we aren't allowed to post full images but you could post the detail).
Boo
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Hi Boo. I am just looking at both birth certificates, one for Charles Mallachin and the one for Mary Ellen Monaghan. Details as follows
9th June 1899 Union Workhouse. Charles- boy- dash for father- Margaret Mallachin a tobacconists assistant Gateshead- informant Jas Scott Union Workhouse- 28 th June 1899- registrar Thomas Lumsden.
10th September 1901 Union Workhouse- Mary Ellen- blank for fathers details- Margaret Monaghan a factory hand if Gateshead- Jas Scott Madter Union Workhouse Gateshead- 26th September 1901- registrar Thomas Lumsden.
I did not think you could post image.
I have looked at her marriage certificates to Charles Johnson in 1904 and to Thomas Coyne in1906 and both have the cross on them (think that’s to say could not read or write??).
She was brought up living in the closes off RoyalMile in Edinburgh so I think reading and writing was a rarity in those days. I have been to the visitors attraction for the closes and they lived a very harsh life. Really hit the heart strings to think my family lived like they did.
Barbara
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Looking at the two birth register entries, Margaret seems to have been working both before Charles was born and in between the two births (at a tobacconists and then in a factory). So from that its reasonable to conclude she was only resident in the workhouse for short periods before and after the births.
I've firkled though the page images I have for my twiglets who were baptised at St Joseph's 1890-1910 on the offchance she may be on the same page as one of mine but no luck. All these entries have an address in the register - though at least one has it as 'Workhouse' . They all also have at least one godparent's name - though no guarantee that the godparent was related or even a close friend.
Sadly the LDS family History Centre near us remains closed so I can't go and look at the image for you but I've added this to my list of things to look at for when it does re-open. (May not be till next year)
Boo
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Thanks for your reply. You have been an absolute godsend (my mam coming out here) to me with this. Between you and other “chatters” I would still have been floundering in the fog. A massive thank you to all for your help.
Stay safe,
Barbara.x
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A contact has been able to look at Mary Ellen's baptism record.
There is an address. of Union Workhouse, Gateshead.
and her godmother was Helena Donnelly.
Boo
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Many thanks for the e mail. So she was still in the workhouse in October 1901. Had a quick look for Helena Donnelly but my head is in a muddle at the moment. Just wondering if she was an inmate??? Who knows?
At least, thanks to all of your help, I now know that my grandads sister did exist.
Barbara.
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I’ve just caught up with this thread and wanted to say ticketyboo you have made me laugh at your firkling and bingo and jackpot. Just what I needed , very interesting and very well done in finding what you have !
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:-) its a bonus that I could not only help a little but make someone smile too!
Boo