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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: rainbow_beanieu on Saturday 25 September 21 02:24 BST (UK)
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Hello,
could someone please suggest who I could contact who may be able to help me with my family history dead end of finding the parents of James Latta, married to Katharine Lang (b. 1762) on 21st April 1781 at Dumbarton. I have a copy of their intention to marry, which only has the bride and groom’s names. I don’t know if a separate document is created for the actual wedding, with the groom’s parents’ names on it.
This, if such a document is generated, or James’ death certificate are the only way I can think of that would verify his parents’ names.
I thought his parents were James Latta and Mary Nasmith, were married on 16 AUG 1753 at Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland, where Mary was born. This james was born 14 Mar 1726 Dunlop, Ayr, Scotland. However, I was contacted by a Paul Latta who assures me my James was not the James born to them in 1754.
James and Katharine had the following children: Robert 1781, William 1783, Robert 1785, James 1784, Agnes 1794, Agnes 1796, Catherine 1798. According to Scottish naming patterns, James’s father should have been Robert, but I cannot see a Robert who fits.
The possibilities are:
1. James born in 1759 at Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland to James Latta and Agnes Mc Farlane married in Dunbarton in 1738. This makes him the right age to be marrying Katharine who was born in 1762 and Old Kilpatrick is close to Dumbarton, where James & Katharine’s wedding and children’s births took place.
2. The James and Agnes above had a son called Robert born in 1739. It is possible that he could have had a child around the age of 20, but I have no records of him, other than his birth. This would be a good fir at it would account for James & Katherine’s first-born con being called Robert, the right age and again close to Dunbarton.
3.
7 Oct 1744 James Lata Dundonald Ayrshire Robert Lata Jean Christie
Not likely as from Ayrshire and this would make James 18 years older than Katharine.
4.
10 Jun 1743 James Latta Dumbarton Dunbarton John Latta Jean Davie
Not likely – from Dumbarton, but this would make James 19 years older than Katharine.
5. Marriage 6 Jul 1754 William Latta Dumbarton Dunbarton Agnes Latta Also entered in Old Kilpatrick as William Latay (Doesn’t fit with James & Katharine’s 1st child being named Robert.) If married 1754 must have been at least 20, therefore born around 1734, so in 1781 at James & Katharine's wedding would have been 47 and around 27 when James was born
6. Marriage Jan 1741 John Latta Dumbarton Dunbarton Jean Davie Also entered in Cardross, Dunbarton on 29 Jan 1741 (Doesn’t fit with James & Katharine’s 1st child being named Robert.) If married 1741 must have been at least 20, therefore born from 1721, so in 1781 at James & Katharine's wedding would have been 60 and around 40 when James was born
7. Marriage 12 Jul 1739 John Latta Dumbarton Dunbarton Margrat Latta (Doesn’t fit with James & Katharine’s 1st child being named Robert.) If married 1739 must have been at least 20, therefore born from 1719, so in 1781 at James & Katharine's wedding would have been 62 and around 42 when James was born
Kind regards, Dianne
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I do not see this JAMES LATTA - 8/09/1751 on your list?
Father JAMES LATTA/ Dalry, Ayrshire.
Colin
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Thanks Colin,
l didn't include him because he wasn't from Dumbarton where James and Katharine were married. I am not sure how far afield they moved in that time.
Regards, Dianne
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It looks like the James 1751 I posted may have married earlier.
JAMES LATTA Married JEAN KIRKWOOD 16/03/1779 Dalry
Colin
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You may have most of this but it might help others.
If this is Katharine, from the names of their children I guess they did not follow the normal naming pattern?
KATHARINE LANG Birth/baptism JAMES LANG/JANE MCALASTER 21/03/1762 Dumbarton
JAMES LATTA to KATHARINE LANG 21/04/1781 Dumbarton (Is this the record you have)?
Children Dumbarton (Mother CATHERINE on some)
LATTA ROBERT 28/12/1781
LATTA ROBERT 28/06/1785
LATTA WILLIAM 25/02/1783
LATTA WILLIAM 27/11/1791
LATTA AGNES 13/04/1794 died 24/02/1795
LATTA AGNES 22/05/1796
LATTA CATHRINE 09/09/1798
JAMES LATA age 1 died 20/03/1789
father JAMES LATA
There are also deaths for Robert Latta 27/01/1794 - age 54 (1740) and
William Latta 21/06/1793 - age 64 - (1729) also Agnes Latta 21/12/1784 (LEITH / ROB LATTA) age 58 -(1726)
Colin
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Old or West Kilpatrick - 6 children 1741 - 1759
JAMES LATAY/AGNES MCFARLANE
JAMES LATAY 7/09/1759
JAMES LATA/AGNES MC FARLANE
JAMES LATA 11/03/1743 presume died
Colin
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LATAY JAMES AGNES MC FARLANE 17/08/1738 Old or West Kilpatrick
LATTA JAMES AGNES MACFARLAN 04/08/1738 Dumbarton
I presume Banns were read in Dumbarton married Old Kilpatrick.
Colin
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A quick mention in case it is of use….
On Scotlands People in the section for Wills and Testaments there is a document [Dumbarton] dated 1827 for a James Latta, Millwright in parish of Old Kilpatrick.
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Possible death record for the above.
JAMES LATTER, no age 2/01/1827
Old or West Kilpatrick.
Colin
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Yes that is them. You are right, Katharine's mother Jean didn't get a look in any where. Katharine's eldest sister was Agnes and her eldest brother was Robert, so maybe their childrens' names Agnes and Robert came from them.
I have most of what you have written, but not all. I didn't have the second William born in 1791. There is also a James born 1787, which was listed in the records as James Lato but with James & Katharine listed as his parents.
I think the dates you have listed are the christening dates. These are the birthdates:
LATTA ROBERT Birth 22 DEC 1781, Christening 28/12/1781
LATTA WILLIAM Birth 15 FEB 1783, Christening 25/02/1783, Died 1837
LATTA ROBERT Birth 23 JUN 1785, Christening 28/06/1785, Died 1868,
LATTA JAMES Birth 5 SEP 1787, Christening 9 SEP 1787, Died 1789
LATTA WILLIAM 27/11/1791
LATTA AGNES Birth 7 APR 1794, Christening 13/04/1794, Died 24/02/1795
LATTA AGNES Birth 16 MAY 1796, Christening 22/05/1796
LATTA CATHRINE Birth 3 SEP 1798, Christening 09/09/1798, Died 1878
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Hi again Colin, re your messages:
A quick mention in case it is of use….
On Scotlands People in the section for Wills and Testaments there is a document [Dumbarton] dated 1827 for a James Latta, Millwright in parish of Old Kilpatrick.
Possible death record for the above.
JAMES LATTER, no age 2/01/1827
Old or West Kilpatrick.
Do you mean these are the same Death documents, or two different James'?
Did all the death certificates have the name of the parents on them?
Even if I got the death certificate I will not now if it is the correct one, unless it also lists the spouse. So confusing!!!
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LATTA WILLIAM 27/11/1791 is not yours.
This is the actual OPR entry a different mother.
LATTA WILLIAM JAMES LATTA/JANET MCQUON FR663 (FR663)
M 27/11/1791 496/30 76 Dumbarton
The James in Wills & Testaments (Mill Wright) suggestion is not not yours its a different family. His wife was Isobel Paton, mother-in-law was Jean Donald married to Mungo Paton, Shoemaker. He was from Beith in Ayrshire.
The death recorded as Latter is a James Latta but likely an infant as no age is recorded as there is on the rest on the entries.
Here are some things that might help you.
Scottish naming pattern is handy but if your James is the 2nd son or later son born then his father might not be James would it.
The OPR records baptisms not births and they come from the Scotland’s People https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Some baptisms will also have the birth recorded it depends on the Parish.
So you want to get married - you and your intended wife go to the Kirk Office they they will draft a Proclamation of Banns with your names collect the required coins, it is read 3 times in the Church and if no one objects you are married. Rarely, do they mention the father of the bride/groom.
Or, if you are pregnant and starting to show you will be brought before what I call the Fornication Department of the Parish where you spill the beans as to the Father's name and he is also brought forward and you are married.
Deaths pre 1855 when Statutory Reg's commenced few are recorded. You have better luck finding these in the burial books of the churchyard/cemetery. And no, they are not online. Again the majority had no stone nor could they afford a stone. There typically several buried in one lair (plot).
Your challenges...not everyone was baptized - it costs coin. Many records are lost especially the further back you go. The other thing you need to realize the OPR records are from the Church of Scotland only and no Churches. If James parents were followers of another Church few of those records are available.
Don
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LATTA WILLIAM 27/11/1791 is not yours.
Don
Quite right Don my error.
Colin
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Thanks Don,
that was all very helpful.
Re 'Scottish naming pattern is handy but if your James is the 2nd son or later son born then his father might not be James would it.'
I thought it was pretty general (but, I know, not always) that the first son was named after the father's father. As James and Katharine's first son was Robert, I thought the most likely male parentage for James would be called Robert Latta.
Dianne
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It could be.that.there were earlier.babies Jean, Robert or other that were not recorded ...died before christening or exceptions were made if a loved one had recently died who was not the father's father .
My family followed quite traditionally but one daughter is named after first wifes mother and not mother of her birthmother
the second wife
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could someone please suggest who I could contact who may be able to help me with my family history dead end of finding the parents of James Latta, married to Katharine Lang (b. 1762) on 21st April 1781 at Dumbarton. I have a copy of their intention to marry, which only has the bride and groom’s names. I don’t know if a separate document is created for the actual wedding, with the groom’s parents’ names on it.
No such document was created before the start of civil registration in 1855.
You didn't include in your list of possibles for consideration
8. An entirely different James Latta whose baptism record, if it ever existed, has not survived.
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Thanks for all your replies. I can stop going down the rabbit hole of family research and get on with my life. I guess knowing my:
Father - James McFarlane Latta - b.1924
Grandfather - James McFarlane Latta - b.1893
Great Grandfather - James McFarlane Latta - b.1856
Great, Great Grandfather - David Latta - b.1820
and Great, Great, Great Grandfather - Robert Latta - b.1785
is enough.
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I realise this may not be of interest but from your last post I noticed that David’s children followed the usual naming pattern. So I looked at the possibility of the father of James being Robert and as you know there is no record on SP but there was a Robert in Dumbarton at the time, so it may well be that the record has not survived. No marriage for Robert & Agnes and two baptisms quite close to each other but worth a look.
LATTA JOHN ROBERT LATTA/AGNES LEECH 02/07/1753 Dumbarton
LATTA MARY ROBERT LATTA/AGNES LEECH 19/10/1753 Dumbarton
There are a few deaths on SP 1642-1795 including below, none for Robert.
AGNES LATTA Death LEITH / ROB LATTA 58 (1726) 21/12/1784 Dumbarton
Possible baptisms for Robert and Agnes
LATAE ROBERT JOHN LATAE/SUSANNA MILLAR 19/07/1723 Dumbarton
LATEY ROBERT JOHN LATEY/SUSSANNA MILLER 19/07/1723 Old or West Kilpatrick
LEITCH AGNES DONALD LEITCH/JANET LEITCH 30/09/1728 Roseneath or Rosneath
It might be worth looking at the records held by Dunbartonshire Archives?
https://www.west-dunbarton.gov.uk/libraries/archives-family-history/archives-collections
Good luck
Colin
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Thank you for the time you have taken to look into this Colin. Looks like I may stay down the rabbit hole a little longer. 😄
Kind regards, Dianne