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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: PIGLET392006 on Saturday 06 November 21 10:18 GMT (UK)
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CALLING ALL DESCENDANTS OF MAURICE HENRY HALES, BORN 1879, BIRMINGHAM, UK!!
Hi everyone,
I am trying to find out what happened to a MAURICE HENRY HALES (probably also known as Harry Hales, born 1879, of Birmingham, UK), particularly around the period 1909/1910 - 1914/1915. For the purposes of this thread, I'll use the name "Harry Hales" to save typing out his full name. By way of background, I'm including the following information:-
1. Harry Hales was born in 1879 in Birmingham to Frederick Hales, a jeweller, and Alice Morris.
2. Harry enlisted in the British Army in 1898, around 18 years of age. His occupation at the time of enlistment was that of a carpenter.
4. He initially served in the 4th Battalion of the Worcestershire Regiment, his rank was that of a Private.
5. His period of service whilst in this Corps was from 9th November 1897 - 8th June 1898. His Regiment # in the 4th Battalion was 4693.
6. He served in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment from June 1898 - February 1899. His Regiment # for this period of service was 5970.
7. In 1901, Harry Hales was a Sergeant in the 6th Worcestershire Regiment and was boarding with the Inchley family at 16 Ernest Road, Balsall Heath. He had been boarding with them for some time, as his father Frederick had passed away in 1893. The head of the Inchley family was George Edward Inchley.
8. Harry Hales married my great-grandmother, Minnie Eva Inchley, on 20th August 1904 at St Agatha's Church, Sparkbrook, Birmingham, UK. A witness to the marriage was one of Minnie's sisters, Mary Ann Reeves (Reeves being her married name).
9. Minnie gave birth to their first child, Harry Jr., in the year prior (1903). This child was illegitimate.
10. Two more children were subsequently born to Harry and Minnie after their marriage. Their second child, another son, named Frederick, was born 1906. Their third child, a daughter, named Elsie Maud, was born 1909.
11. Harry Jr., Frederick and Elsie lost their mother, Minnie, in 1923. Their ages at the time of her death would have been 20, 17 and 14, respectively.
12. Harry Jr. married Alice May Snow in 1925. Their son, William, was born in 1927. They lived at 7 Albert Terrace Studley Street, Birmingham from approximately 1925 - 1929, with Alice's mother and her siblings.
13. Alice May Snow died in 1933, prompting her widowed husband Harry Jr. to leave their son William with his mother-in-law and depart for Coventry.
14. The 1939 Register indicated a Frederick Hales, his wife Florence, and two children living at 17 Barn Lane, Solihull. This address is apparently now Akamba Heritage Centre.
15. The 1939 Register indicated an Elsie Maud Hales, married to Harry R Harris, and three children living at 84 Riversdale Road, Birmingham.
16. Harry had an older brother, Frederick, born, 1876. Frederick was in the 1st Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment, Regiment #4758.
I should point out that Maurice Henry Hales is not my great-grandfather, however, is related to my mother's side of the family in a rather complicated way!
Any relatives of Maurice Henry Hales (Harry Hales) are most welcome to reply, as I am very keen to find out what happened to him.
Regards :)
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Have you seen the 1906 newspaper reports of ex-soldier Harry Hales assaulting his sister-in-law Minnie Hales of 53 Stoney Lane Birmingham?
Added - this must be Frederick rather than Harry. There are slightly earlier reports about Frederick stealing a ring from Minnie.
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To help try & locate him it might be helpful to know a little more about Harry post-army.
What was his occupation at the time of marriage and at the birth of the children?
I see he was discharged from the regular army in 1899 as permanently unfit (double inguinal hernia), and the 6th Worcestershire Regiment mentioned on the 1901 census was a reserve / militia battalion, so unlikely to have been his full-time occupation.
Where was the family in 1911?
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I should also have asked on my last post, who registered Minnie's death? Its not clear when you actually lose sight of Harry.
However, it's perhaps also worth mentioning his criminal tendencies:
Birmingham Mail 18 June 1903 (and others)
Pleaded guilty to obtaining money by false pretences. He’d had an accident at the Birmingham Smalls Arms Factory in 1902 and received £3 compensation. He became a bookmaker but lost all his money, and that’s when he decided on the scheme to fraudulently obtain money.
The report also says he was sent to the Gordon Boy’s Home in 1892 and sent out to work, but stole 20s and 16s and two handcarts. Later broke out of the home and joined the army and later the militia after he was discharged. Some reports mention that he was a carpenter. Sentenced to 3 months hard labour.
Birmingham Mail 08 September 1904
Charged with a similar offence. This time described as a signwriter of Shakespeare Street, Sparkhill.
Birmingham Daily Gazette 27 September 1904
Sentenced to 3-months hard labour for the above offence, along with George Greaves aged 45 of Montpelier Street, Birmingham.
However, I think the 1906 report mentioned by Shaun is a reporting error, and should have said Frederick Hales. It says he was a Coventry man who had served in India and had already been ordered to return a ring to Minnie, which ties in with the next report:
Birmingham Mail 02 October 1906
Minnie Hales of Stoney Lane summoned her brother-in-law Frederick Hales of Lodge Road, Coventry over a pawn ticket for a ring. Frederick was said to have behaved strangely since his return from India and had visited his brother (Harry) and professed his love for Minnie saying he loved the ground she walked on. After he left the pawn ticket was missing, and it was found that Frederick had redeemed it but then pawned it again.
Added: I see Shaun has already updated his post while I was (very slowly!) typing
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Were there two additional births after 1909? MMN is Inchley for both births. Still doesn't solve where the family were in 1911, or what happened to Henry/Harry.
Sep 1912 HALES Minnie E
Mar 1914 HALES Ethel M
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His sister Minnie E born 1912 gets sent to Canada age 13 arrives 22 June 1926, marries Earle Conners Lynk (1912-1967)living in Canning Nova Scotia.
She is on the Canada Voters lists 1968 and 1972 Main Street Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia
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His sister Ethel M born 1914 was also sent to Canada arrives 20 May 1927 age 13.
Port is Halifax Nova Scotia.
Haven't found any further on her
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I know the OP was trying not to confuse everyone, by linking to this previous post, but i can see it is going to end up just like that one. (Which was riveting) so to save people covering the same ground
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=820395.msg7232498#msg7232498
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Thanks for the update mckha489.
Hopefully ShaunJ and Jomot can find more newspaper articles about him.
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for the newspaper information on Maurice Henry Hales, he and his brother Frederick were quite the characters.
I purposely didn't include the reference to the other thread on Harry Rundle, my great-grandfather, as it's already complicated enough and of a sensitive nature. The purpose of the thread on Maurice Henry Hales is to ascertain his whereabouts after 1909/1910, hoping any descendants of his that may be doing family history research might come across this thread and shed some light on what happened to him.
The town of Coventry comes up a few times which is quite interesting - 1) Maurice's brother Frederick lived there around 1906, and 2) Harry Jr. (the illegitimate child of Minnie and Maurice born 1903) departed for Coventry around 1933 when his wife Alice died, leaving their son William with his mother-in-law. If Coventry is a common denominator, could Maurice Henry Hales ended up there himself, after discovering the affair his wife Minnie was having?
Regards :)
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Hi everyone, is there any possibility of finding out if Maurice Henry Hales was in prison around the time of the 1911 Census? He seemed to be in and out of trouble since his teenage years, particularly after is father died in 1893 and his mother had walked out on the family.
On his wife Minnie's death certificate in 1923, it states she was a widow.
The search period for his whereabouts should be extended to cover the period 1909/1910 - 1923.
Regards :)
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Hi especially PIGLET392006. I don't have a lot of detailed information but I am Ethel Hales grand daughter. She was placed in an orphanage with her sister Minnie and brother Stanley who was in an adjacent orphanage by Harry Rundle when her mom passed. There is a sad story of how Ethel saved her bread and jam and gave it to Stanley through a chain link fence as she held his hand since he was younger and frailer than the 2 girls. All three were shipped out as part of England's home children. I have no knowledge of her siblings that were listed in a previous post (maybe died young). Stanley was shipped to Australia, Minnie to Upper Canada and eventually settled in Nova Scotia and Ethel was sent directly to NS. My grandmother was around 9 in the orphanage and when in NS (11) was not one of the lucky children taken in as part of the family. She seemed to be one of the children to work when she arrived (tales of never owing a toy that she could remember). She married young 14? (maybe to escape- who knows) Gilbert Spinney and had 10 children. My mother was one of the older children. We have a cousin who is researching the family tree and may be a source of information. My uncles/aunts actually trying to find a special Christmas gift for their mom found her family in England and Australia. They paid for a visit for her etc meet family in both places. The sad part of that story was her brother died the December before they located him and although she got to meet his wife and children never saw him again (nor knew where he was) from leaving the orphanage in England.
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Hi Jensam, thank you so much for replying!
I haven't been on RootsChat since last year, but will try to keep in touch as often as possible. What prompted me today to log in was coming across an email that mentioned free access to Australian, NZ and UK military records until tomorrow (Tuesday) lunchtime. So I thought I'd better take advantage of that and see what else I can find!
My maternal grandfather was Joseph John Rundle, the youngest child of Harry Rundle and Minnie Eva Inchley. Harry Rundle is my maternal great-grandfather. Stanley was 4 years older than Joseph, and as far as I'm aware, Stanley stayed in the UK. Only Minnie, Ethel and Joseph were sent to Canada and Australia, respectively. Joseph died in 1984. Stanley died quite young I believe, in his mid-20's.
Keep in touch if you wish, and any further information you can provide will be very welcome.
Regards :)
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Hi Jensam,
I hope you've had a chance to read the other messages I sent you recently, including the rather lengthy thread on Harry Rundle which includes bits and pieces of information on Maurice Henry Hales.
Did your grandmother recall anything about her father at all, any information she may have passed on to your own mother or even yourself?
He appears to be quite an elusive character from about 1909/1910 onwards. The only seemingly concrete evidence that he died between 1909/1910 - 1923 was the fact that on our great-grandmother Minnie's death certificate, it was stated she was a widow.
His older brother Frederick ended up in living in Coventry, as did his & Minnie's first-born son (born in 1903), Harry Jr., after his wife died. It leaves me wondering whether Coventry was the place Maurice Henry Hales ended up in too, and he perhaps died there.
Regards :)
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Hi Jensam,
I'm not sure if you've seen these before regarding your grandmother Ethel:-
http://www.britishhomechildrenregistry.com/Person/bhcInfo/19689
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/211686929/ethel-mary-spinney
This one is for her sister Minnie:-
http://www.britishhomechildrenregistry.com/Person/bhcInfo/66883
Regards :)
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CALLING ALL DESCENDANTS OF MAURICE HENRY HALES, BORN 1879, BIRMINGHAM, UK!!
Hi everyone,
I am trying to find out what happened to a MAURICE HENRY HALES (probably also known as Harry Hales, born 1879, of Birmingham, UK), particularly around the period 1909/1910 - 1914/1915. For the purposes of this thread, I'll use the name "Harry Hales" to save typing out his full name. By way of background, I'm including the following information:-
14. The 1939 Register indicated a Frederick Hales, his wife Florence, and two children living at 17 Barn Lane, Solihull. This address is apparently now Akamba Heritage Centre.
15. The 1939 Register indicated an Elsie Maud Hales, married to Harry R Harris, and three children living at 84 Riversdale Road, Birmingham.
Regards :)
Hi everyone,
I've been away from rootschat for quite some time, but have decided to rejoin & catch up with any research.
The points regarding Frederick Hales & Elsie Maud Hales in the above-mentioned quote are incorrect. Those two Hales individuals belong to completely different families.
So I'm still trying to find any info on the Frederick (b. 1906) & Elsie (b. 1909) born to Harry Hales & Minnie Eva Inchley.
Harry Inchley (b. 1903) is on the 1939 register living in Coventry as a boarder, with Mr & Mrs Kemp.
Regards😊
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Ethel and Minnie both were shipped to Canada by the British government ( to by their choices, they were children from an orphanage. They have many descendants in Nova Scotia, and other parts ofCanada. Ethel and husband raised 10 children, countless grand and great grand children.