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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Dotty13 on Thursday 02 December 21 13:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Thursday 02 December 21 13:57 GMT (UK)
Hello
I wonder if someone can help me I'm busy doing my family tree and I have found the marriage of my grandparents
James Brady and Mary Cunningham in 1940 in Dublin the marriage has got the names of both fathers on. Wish is a Joseph Brady and Patrick cunningham. My grand dad mother passed away in child birth and I'm struggling to find his mother. I was told James father put him and his siblings in a orphanage and was never since again so I have hit a brick wall now
Any help or information would be amazing
Thank you
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 02 December 21 14:28 GMT (UK)

Just linking the marriage record in 1940 for others to see-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1940/08839/5196297.pdf

Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 December 21 14:36 GMT (UK)
Just adding link to your other post as it has some additional details that may help www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=845339.0

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 December 21 14:52 GMT (UK)
Can I make a suggestion?

There has been lots of guesses and errors in the information on the other posts. You were not sure of details likely at that time. Can you do a quick summary of what has been confirmed so far?

For example, your grandmother's name looks to be Mary not Bridget.

Now that you have the original marriage for them in Dublin in 1940, I see one of the witnesses is a Joseph Brady. To fit with the story that father Joseph abandoned them as children, could this be one of his two brothers?

I can't make out the occupation for Joseph, father  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Thursday 02 December 21 15:04 GMT (UK)
Hello monica
Mary Cunningham name is Bridget Mary Cunningham she never liked the name Bridget so she used Mary. I know her parents where called Patrick cunningham and Mary reddington. I know my grandfather was a twin and had another sibling and that Bridget and James children where called Patrick. Michael. Christopher Margaret and bridget (but we know Bridget as maureen. I know that they lived at louth lodge and bridget and James came to e England about 1967.james and bridget sadly passed away in rochdale. I know they son Patrick passed away in Ireland
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Thursday 02 December 21 18:56 GMT (UK)
The occupation is herd
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 December 21 00:00 GMT (UK)
I know her parents where called Patrick cunningham and Mary reddington.

If you agree that the birth in 1906 is your Bridget/Mary then her father was Michael, not Patrick.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Friday 03 December 21 00:19 GMT (UK)
Hello Debra
Her father was Patrick and her brother was Michael.I have been in touch with the national archive and they have confirmed that it is the right marriage and told me to email St Mary Pro cathedral dublin to get details off them for James mother and father

Dotty
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 December 21 00:46 GMT (UK)
So you don't think the birth previously posted is hers?  The father is Michael, the mother Mary REDINGTON.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01736/1686139.pdf

Date of birth is 13 April 1906, the same date as her death registration.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Friday 03 December 21 00:54 GMT (UK)
Now I'm not sure. Also I have had family member tell me that her dad was called Patrick so I looks like I have to start all over again. I will still get the details from St Mary's pro cathedral and  see what that says and go from there x
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Friday 03 December 21 14:25 GMT (UK)
Hello Debra

I have found a baptism record for a Bridget cunningham to a Michael cunningham and Mary reddington but it say 1905 on it so I'm very confused now

Dorothy x
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 04 December 21 02:52 GMT (UK)
I have found a baptism record for a Bridget cunningham to a Michael cunningham and Mary reddington but it say 1905 on it so I'm very confused now

Where have you found this baptism record?  Can you post details please.

I have been in touch with the national archive and they have confirmed that it is the right marriage

I cannot see how the the archive would know whether or not it is the right marriage for your couple unless they were there at the time or they are psychic.

....her brother was Michael.

The Bridget we have been following did not have a brother Michael that I can see, there is no birth registration and he does not appear on any census with the family.  Where has this information come from?

Just to recap.....

The birth registrations to Michael CUNNINGHAM and Mary REDDINGTON can be found here:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

1894  Mary
1896  Margaret
1897  John
1899  Simon


These four children are on the 1901 census with their parents here:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Rohun/Polleighter/1380994/

1903  Ellen
1906  Bridget
1908  Patrick


The father Michael died in 1910 and in 1911 Mary has John, Simon, Ellen and Patrick with her.  Bridget (Delia) and Margaret are with Michael and Margaret BURNS.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Raheen/Polleighter/459169/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Dunmore_South/Lissybroder/475426/

It is important that you check your father's birth certificate for his father's occuption to see how it compares with the 1940 marriage.  I can understand Bridget giving the incorrect name for her father as she was only aged 4 when he died, but I do not understand why she would use the name 'Mary'.

Debra  :D

Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Saturday 04 December 21 06:48 GMT (UK)
That the baptism record Im just so puzzled now. See I know my grandad was a twin and was told his mother passed away in child birth and was put in a orphanage with his siblings. I have for a death record for Margaret burns and my nana registered the death as it 1969 at louth lodge and I know they lived there

copyright image removed
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 15:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Debra
The record I have got for the baptism record say the date of birth is the 5 Dec 1905 and the baptism 10 Dec 1905 sponsers was a devilly and Fleming

Dot
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 05 December 21 16:29 GMT (UK)
Just following the timeline that Debra has put together to add some details found in the other post by Heywood:



Here is the death (1944) of Michael Burns, Louth Lodge. The informant, Bridget Brady, niece.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1944/04647/4235767.pdf

Bridget was probably raised by the Burns after her father’s death.

Added
Margaret Burns death, 104 yrs - informant Bridget Brady
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1970/04152/4055846.pdf

In these death registrations in 1944 and 1969, Bridget shows as niece to Michael and Margaret Burns.

So far, apart from the use of 'Mary' on her marriage reg, on other references she shows as Bridget? Did you order your father's birth reg in the end? If so, how was her name recorded and did other details match?

Also, what year was the birth of James and Bridget's last child? With the details discussed here, Bridget would have been 13 years older than James (1906 and 1919)?

Monica

Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 05 December 21 16:42 GMT (UK)

The record I have got for the baptism record say the date of birth is the 5 Dec 1905 and the baptism 10 Dec 1905 sponsers was a devilly and Fleming


Did you find this online? If you tell us where, we can also have a look at it with you.

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 17:41 GMT (UK)
Hello
James and Bridget last child was born in 1948.
Yes I got my dad birth certificate
It say the 17th September 1941
Parents names Bridget Brady and James Brady so they are record on my dad birth certificate.
I was told off my auntie that my Grandad was a twin to a sister and that his mum passed away in child birth.
So I'm am really struggling as I seam to be get somewhere and than hit a really big wall. I have got the death certificate for Michael burns and Margaret burns
The baptism record is on roots ireland ie
Thank you
Dotty
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 05 December 21 18:07 GMT (UK)
Not all family stories are accurate, I was told my grandfather was an only child (by someone who had met at least 3 of his siblings and had heard about at least 2 others) but he was actually the youngest of ten!
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 05 December 21 18:17 GMT (UK)
James and Bridget last child was born in 1948.
Yes I got my dad birth certificate
It say the 17th September 1941
Parents names Bridget Brady and James Brady so they are record on my dad birth certificate.
I was told off my auntie that my Grandad was a twin to a sister and that his mum passed away in child birth.
So I'm am really struggling as I seam to be get somewhere and than hit a really big wall. I have got the death certificate for Michael burns and Margaret burns
The baptism record is on roots ireland ie

A few points (which may already have been mentioned)-
'Yes I got my dad birth certificate
It say the 17th September 1941
Parents names Bridget Brady and James Brady'
Do you mean the parents were recorded as James Brady & Bridget Brady formerly Brady?
If 'Grandad was a twin to a sister and that his mum passed away in child birth' then his twin sister's birth should have been recorded just before or just after his entry (so, either on same page or previous/next page). His mother's death would probably have been recorded shortly after or within a few months (my great-grandmother gave birth to her last child in mid-December but died 6 weeks later in January so the 2 events were recorded in different quarters). I should also say that child was told his mother died in childbirth but an older sister who nursed her mother had a different story which was confirmed when I found the death certificate.
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 18:26 GMT (UK)
Hello Aghadowey
I know not all family storys are right
No her maiden name is recorded as Cunningham.
And my grandad occupation was recorded as a farmer.  And that they lived at louth lodge.
Finding it very hard to find any information for the marriage of Bridget and James. I have for no family members to ask as sadly lost my dad and uncle and my aunt won't help me. I just don't know what to do how. See I started doing my family tree as I found out my mum was adopted so I really want to know where I come from

Dotty z
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 05 December 21 18:30 GMT (UK)
It's confusing when you don't post accurate information. So, does your father's birth certificate say parents are James Brady & Bridget Brady formerly Cunningham?
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 18:36 GMT (UK)
Yes I does say formerly cunningham

Sorry if I have confused anyone I didn't mean to

Dotty x
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 05 December 21 18:49 GMT (UK)
Just read other threads of yours and I am still confused  :-\

Your dad Michael Brady was born 1941. Birth certificate gives parents as James Brady & Bridget (nee Cunningham).
James Brady born c1919 (had twin sister, mother died in childbirth & children placed in orphanage).

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=844648.0
Have you followed up the leads on this thread?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=845339.msg7122321#msg7122321
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 19:01 GMT (UK)
I didn't flow the birth lead
But followed all the others

Yes my dad was born 17th September 1941 louth lodge to a James Brady and Bridget Brady (Cunningham) they also had 2 daughters and a other 2 sons apart from my dad and one of the passed away in 1948 he was only in his 20s when he passed away. I was told that my Grandad was a twin to a sister and that is mother passed away in child birth and they father left them in a orphanage off my auntie. So I don't know if it right what she told me

Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 05 December 21 19:05 GMT (UK)
Like any sort of research you need to work back step by step using available sources. Since you have your father's birth certificate you need to find the marriage of his parents. When and where was their eldest child born? Once you know that it will give you a starting point for finding their marriage.
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 19:15 GMT (UK)
The oldest child born was my dad and he was born 1941. When my grandparents passed away in 1984 and 1986 they had been married approx 48 years. It just upset me that my aunt won't help me and won't explain why. So I have no one to go to in my family to ask
Sorry my grandparents son that passed away was 1968
Was giving  my granddaughter a cuddle when see the last message

Dotty


Dotty
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 05 December 21 19:17 GMT (UK)

Just linking the marriage record in 1940 for others to see-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1940/08839/5196297.pdf

This is the marriage that has been linked as a possible.

What was James, father's occupation on your dad's birth cert in 1941?

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 05 December 21 19:23 GMT (UK)
I did find twins James and Thomas born in the Dublin area in 1919 to a Francis Brady and Catherine Larkin. Sadly, both twins died in 1920 at the age of 10 months so certainly no possibilities there.  Some researchers have this couple as your Dad's parents. Looks like they haven't noted the deaths for the twins.

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 19:26 GMT (UK)
Sadly it not My grandad occupation on my dad birth certificate is a farmer
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dotty13 on Sunday 05 December 21 20:48 GMT (UK)
What puzzles me as well is if Bridget was born in 1906 why would my dad and siblings put 1911 on her gravestone as that would be wrong to

Dotty
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Joney on Sunday 05 December 21 21:31 GMT (UK)
The details put on gravestones are notoriously unreliable. It's not unusual for families to get things wrong,  at a time of emotional strain, especially if some time passes after the death before the stone is chosen, or before additional words are added to an existing stone. If there are different members of the family involved in registering the death and arranging for the wording on the stone to be completed, even a different date of death may be the result.

 It's like Chinese Whispers, that game where each person in a line whispers a message to the next one along. Everyone agrees to the stone, but one person is left to pass on the exact wording to the Monumental Masons who deal with the gravestone.  Perhaps he or she is in a hurry/ has handwriting which is not clear / loses the piece of paper intended to be left with the masons and has to supply the info by word of mouth just relying on memory. Just some suggestions as to how things can go wrong. It's not unusual.
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 05 December 21 21:40 GMT (UK)
What puzzles me as well is if Bridget was born in 1906 why would my dad and siblings put 1911 on her gravestone as that would be wrong to

Dotty

However, they did give the full 1906 birth date on her death registration didn't they?

Monica
Title: Re: Marriage
Post by: Dundee on Monday 06 December 21 01:24 GMT (UK)
It isn't all that unusual (especially in Ireland in my experience) to have parents fib about the child's birthdate if it was a late registration.  The birth wasn't registered until 20 June 1906 which was way outside the time allowed if she was actually born in December 1905.

Debra  :)