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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: MissSarah on Sunday 05 December 21 20:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello, my great grandmother was called Anna Maria Kirkwood, born roughly 1876.
She married my great grandfather William Adair Matthews in 1896,the marriage certificate says aged 20.
In 1916,Anna remarried to a Robert James Johnston .
My two brickwalls for Anna is,I'm unable to find any birth records or definite death records/dates for her.
It had been suggested she may have been a foundling. On Anna's first marriage to William,the father is noted as unknown,but on Anna's secound marriage to Robert,the father is listed as William x
My great grandmother is certainly keeping me on my toes!I would dearly like to find birth/death info for this elusive lady .
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For reference-
1896 marriage- father 'not known'
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10506/5826752.pdf
1916 marriage- father William Kirkwood
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09792/5554657.pdf
Annie's age 23 in 1901 and age 33 in 1911-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Tullynakill/Lisbane/1258001/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Tullynakill/Lisbane/267107/
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Thank you Aghadowey x
This is info i have,although with Annie's age in 1896 being recorded as 20, in 1901 it should be 25 x Perhaps there was a spoof on her part at some stage x
The info in Annie I'd like to find is her birth and or death x
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Annie was alive in 1916 but when is the last time you've found a record of her? Do you know when her 2nd husband died? (his death certificate will list marital status- married or widowed probably)
For deaths after 1921 for N.I. counties you'll need to search GRONI's database-
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
Regarding ages- up until well into 1900s most people weren't sure of exactly when they were born or their age. My father-in-law, born pre-WWI, never remembered his own birthday and my father's cousin had 3 birthdays (the one on his birth certificate, the one recorded in his baptismal record and the one his mother insisted was the day he was actually born).
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Well... that was a fun 10 hours of searching. I didn't come up with much that hasn't been mentioned. Looked in all the places for her birth and could not find it. There are several deaths of Annie Johnstons in between 1940-1960. One would have to pay for them all to be sure whats in there...
I've checked the free site:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
The non-free site:
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
I did come up with a couple finds:
Annie and Robert Johnston had a daughter of the same name - Annie Maria Johnston 12 July 1917 in Newtownards .
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540632.pdf
An Annie Maria Johnston died 10 Nov 2003 age 92:
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Annie-Maria-Johnston-Robinson/3955107
But the math does not quite work out... the place and name is right ... it could be a transcription error or could be another person.
Places associated with Anna Maria Kirkwood:
Lisbane - parish of Kilmood (1896 wedding)
1901: Tullynakill Lisbane
1911: Tullynakill Lisbane
1916 wedding: Lisbane
Children from Matthews marriage:
Birth of SELINA MATTHEWS in 1898
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02099/1800048.pdf
Birth of ROBERT MATTHEWS on 04 June 1899
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02044/1783060.pdf
Birth of WILLIAM MATTHEWS on 16 March 1907
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01713/1514313.pdf
Birth of DAVID MATTHEWS on 08 April 1909
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01617/1648459.pdf
Birth of WILLIAM MATTHEWS on 04 November 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01434/1588194.pdf
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Annie and Robert Johnston had a daughter of the same name - Annie Maria Johnston 12 July 1917 in Newtownards .
tinyurl.com/2p9bamdx
This Annie Maria Johnston died 10 Nov 2003 age 82:
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Annie-Maria-Johnston-Robinson/3955107
Many of the links posted don't seem to work but the one for the gravestone is for an Annie Maria age 93 so born c1910 not 1917.
Here's the birth of Annie Maria Johnston in 1917-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540632.pdf
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I was busy fixing that before you chimed in ...but thanks.
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Daughter Annie Maria Johnston born Lisbane which is in Newtownards registration district.
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Pardon me for guessing but I was thinking this could possibly be William Kirkwood's death:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05422/4515571.pdf
William Kirkwood, farmer dies 7th August 1910 at Dundonald (same place as 1916 wedding)
His will:
Full Abstract :
Probate of the Will of William Kirkwood late of Ballyregan Dundonald County Down Farmer who died 7 August 1910 granted at Belfast to John Alexander Kirkwood Merchant and Walter Calwell Kirkwood Farmer.
Has a daughter Margaret Jane born 1874 with mother Mary Ann Perry.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05422/4515571.pdf
I've seen some other births at the time with father William Kirkwood and mother M.A Perry born in Ballyregan Dundonald..
As an example:
Hugh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05422/4515571.pdf
There is also a William 8th March 1870 , William 15th December 1871 , Hugh , Margaret , Walter 2nd October 1876 ... etc etc
The family can be seen here in 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Dundonald/Ballyregan/1223036/
Just putting this out there as a possibility. I was wondering if Anna Maria could be this William's daughter but living with Robert Matthews at the time.
Here's the marriage of the above William Kirkwood:
"Marriage of WILLIAM KIRKWOOD and MARY PERRIE
on 29 October 1869 "
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11435/8200468.pdf
Again this is all just a guess... I can see you have been at it for some time seeking the answers on this so consider this stuff to check out as possibilities. Cheers.
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Thank you Alan for this x
I do have a suspicion that Anna's father could be called William x I have a fee dna matches on ancestry that have this name but no daughter to the name I look for x
I often wonder if she was even registered, I'm aware that some weren't x
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Anna's father may have been William but perhaps his surname wasn't Kirkwood-
1896 marriage- father 'not known'
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10506/5826752.pdf
1916 marriage- father William Kirkwood
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09792/5554657.pdf
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Thank you Aghadowey x I have thought many times that perhaps Annie wasn't aware who her father was at the time of first marriage x
If he was William Kirkwood who died in 1910,and Annie did not re marry til 1916, perhaps in the interim period she was told?Or perhaps a family falling out might have had something to do with it x
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IF Anna was illegitimate but was known by her father's surname Kirkwood before her 1st marriage (were father's name not listed) then she likely would have known who her father was.
It's possibly more likely that she was either the daughter of William Kirkwood (& birth not registered or indexed) or she was illegitmate- either mother/mother's later partner was a Kirkwood (if her mother was Kirkwood possibly William was the name of a grandfather or uncle who helped rear her or she just made up a Christian name at time of 2nd marriage).