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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: fjyod on Monday 20 December 21 18:09 GMT (UK)
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Hello all! I am wondering if someone could help me with an issue - I am researching a line of my family from Dunton Basset, Leicestershire, and the grandparents I am researching are named Joseph Morris (born 1777 Dunton Basset) and Elizabeth Watts. I have the marriage record for them (year 1796, Dunton Basset, both of the Parish and the witnesses are Isaac Bagshaw and William Watts)
However, when I attempt to find a birth certificate for Elizabeth Watts, there are two options. Both of Dunton Basset, the first one born 1777 Dunton Basset daughter of William Watts and Charlotte, and the second born 1772 Dunton Basset daughter of Samuel Watts and Sarah
Could someone help me decide which is "my" Elizabeth Watts? Thankyou! PS - Joseph Morris her husband makes it into the 1841 and 1851 census, but his wife Elizabeth does not appear to
- Daniel
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Daniel -- what name did Elizabeth give to her eldest daughter? Often an eldest daughter was named after the mother's mother.
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Based on the fact that Joseph was a widower by the time of the 1841 census, this seems a likely burial for Elizabeth:
Elizabeth Morris, aged 63, buried on 31st August 1840 in Dunton Bassett, Leicestershire.
This gives her an estimated birth year of 1777.
Queenie :)
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I have looked at the wills of both Samuel and Sarah Watts (parents of 1772 Elizabeth) and they only mention the following children:
George, William, Frances, Sarah, Mary, Samuel and John
This suggests that their daughter Elizabeth had passed away, so that points to your Elizabeth being the daughter of William and Charlotte Watts.
Elizabeth and Joseph Morris appear to have had the following 3 children:
- Sarah (1797)
- Charles (1798)
- Joseph (1806)
So Sarah was the name of their eldest daughter. However, the fact that Elizabeth is not mentioned in the wills of either Samuel or Sarah Watts leads me to believe that they are not her parents, so the name Sarah may just be a coincidence.
Just my opinion; maybe someone else will disagree!
Queenie :)
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Thankyou so much Pennines and Queenie!!! Based on these things:
1) William Watts a witness to the wedding
2) Elizabeth not mentioned in the will of Samuel or his wife
3) Elizabeth Morris passing away before the 1841 census and the death record Queenie provided that matches her birth year,
I do think my Elizabeth Watts is the daughter of William and Charlotte. Thank you so much, I am so grateful! This problem had stumped me for a while but the evidence is overwhelming to go forward now, happy holidays!!! :) :) :)
- Daniel
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Hello again! Just as I thought I was on my way, another stump. The trail is not dry, though, just two possible options and not quite sure which my my William Watts. Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to give your opinion. Here are two options:
The first William "Wats" born 1751 Lutterworth son of Aaron (mother not mentioned) and the second is William Watts born 1748 Dunton Bassett son of Walter and Ann Watts. In the entirety of Leicestershire and the surrounding counties I could only find a Sharlotte Bright born 1757 Enderby
Thankyou regardless! - Daniel
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Oh dear fiyod -- I see my potential theory of Elizabeth possibly naming her eldest daughter after her mother has been completely blown out of the water! I am so sorry.
I'll keep my theories out of this one - but good luck with it.
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Hi Daniel,
I have done some research into this for you, and I have come to the conclusion that, at least for now, you should go with the hypothesis that William was the son of Walter and Ann Watts.
It appears that Walter Watts was the first man of this name in the parish; all the other Watts who follow are his descendants.
Walter married Ann Rowe in Willoughby Waterless, Leicestershire on 11th May 1746. He was 29 and she 21. He is described in their marriage licence as a labourer. They are both noted as being from the parish of Dunton Bassett.
Together they had the following children:
- Frances Watts (1746)
- Samuel Watts (1747)
- William Watts (1748)
- Isaac Watts (1750)
- Millis (or Millie) Watts (1752)
Samuel married Sarah Flude in 1769; he is the father of the 1772 Elizabeth that we have discounted.
From what I can tell, there is no other marriage in Dunton Bassett for the William born in 1748 other than the marriage to Charlotte Bright in 1775. If there were another marriage, it would point to there being more than one William in the parish at this time, but there is not. I can also not find a burial for this William, so it seems that he lived until adulthood.
Furthermore, both William and Samuel's first son was called George. Neither had a son called Walter, despite this being their father's name. No idea why, maybe they did not get on with their father? Who knows... :-\
Anyway, it looks like the Elizabeth born in 1777 was actually the first cousin of the Elizabeth born in 1772. It is common for people with the same name in a small village to be related to each other, so this is not surprising.
In my opinion, there is enough evidence to support William being the son of Walter. I don't know whether you use an online family tree builder, but when I have a situation where I am not 100% certain, I like to attach a little note to the person with my theories and/or doubts. Then, when you come back to this line, you will know why you went with this set of parents. New records are being added all the time; maybe one day there will be total confirmation or, perhaps, new evidence which leads in a totally different direction. Until then, I would just research back from Walter and Ann.
Queenie :)
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Oh Queenie -- what fantastic research you have done for Daniel!
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Thanks, Pennines. That's very kind of you! :)
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You don't have to worry Pennines! I appreciate your help greatly regardless! And a huge thankyou to you as well, Queenie! You really went above - I think I will follow your advice and list Walter as the father but add a note to his place in the tree. Happy holidays again to the both of you!!! :) :) :)