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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: pickpin on Saturday 02 April 22 22:29 BST (UK)
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Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me. My friend recommended this forum after having a similar difficulty, so I have my fingers crossed!
I can't find a record of one of my ancestor's birth. She was born in the 1920s and her mother was unmarried. I've searched first by her name and date of birth. When that yielded no results, I searched a broader time, then tried removing the first name and searching for children who have the same surname as the mother's maiden name but still nothing that looks like it would be her. Can you offer me any advice on where I can go next with this? I know where her mother was living in 1921 and although the mother moves away, the ancestor in question is at that address in 1939 with her grandmother (the mother's mother). Happy to provide any more information that may help. xxx
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Was it an unusual surname?
Any family connections to Scotland, Ireland?
If thischild is in the 1939 register, then presumably is deceased, so there's no forum rule that she cannot be named.
Pauline
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If the child was a stillbirth it wouldn't be registered on the BMD index.
If the child was born elsewhere it will be registered where they were born, eg another county/country as many single women were sent away from home to unmarried mothers homes to give birth
Potentially she was registered/given another name other than she was known by/used.
Spelling of her name or an error in transcribing in the index could be different.
Have you looked for a baptism record?
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Keep in mind a baby could be registered under the father's name even if the couple were not married as no checks were made.
Cheers
Guy
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As you have found her on the 1939 register - it will give her actual birthdate.
Please give details of her full name & birthdate & where she was living at that time.
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It sounds like you've searched by known surnames but not by first name + mother's maiden name only (possible on freebmd). Or even just mother's maiden name only in the right area/quarter (plus the quarter after in case of late registration). This should hopefully pick up on a range of variants.
It is of course still possible for someone to have never been registered, but much less likely in 1920 then it was in 1840 when the system was still new.
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Was it possible for baby to be registered without a given name? Even perhaps baby's mum may have been using perhaps ... a grandmothers maiden name?
I am in NSW Australia, I have a living rellie, born NSW in 1918, her birth cert does not give her a given name. No father noted on it either, but it does have her mum's first name plus a surname matching her Gran .... and the clincher is the exact address for place of birth, and the signature of baby's mum ..... and of course the dob :)
JM
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Hi All, thank you so much for all your replies.
She is deceased so here is the info:
She was known as Ivy Page before she married (that is her name on the 1939 census), but Page was her step father's name, who we have always understood to have entered her mother's life a few years after she was born, so presume she was known by another surname for the first few years of her life. On the 1939 census she is living with her maternal grandmother and her date of birth is listed as 21/02/23, but we always thought she was born in 1924 so could be later and we have a photo of her mum's wedding where she looks like she could be older than born in 23 or 24, so I'm also open minded that she could have been born earlier. Her mother's name is Sarah Grace Ballham. They lived in Smethwick, Birmingham and I've found her Mum and Grandmother at the 1939 address in the 1921 Census, so I think its likely they were living there when she was born, although Sarah Grace may have gone away to give birth.
To answer Iluleah - Ivy only died a few years ago, so definitely not a still birth. I've tried looking for birth and baptism records on Ancestry. I'm new to all this though, so it may be my search technique letting me down.
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There are a couple of Ivy Page's registered in Birmingham in 1924, mothers maiden names are 'Mowbray' in the Jun qtr & 'Mancer' in Sept qtr.
There is also an Ivy Manning with mmn Page in Sept qtr 1923.
Michael.
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Hi Michael. We don't think she would have been registered as Page, because Sarah didn't marry Joseph Page until 1927 and we know Joseph was not her biological father. DNA testing indicates her biological father probably had the surname Stead.
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She died in 2016 & birthdate on death reg is a year later than the 1939 entry - 21.2.1924
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Who did Ivy name as her father when she married? Is there definite knowledge that Sarah was her mother?
In July 1984 an amendment was made to add the middle name 'Lucy' (Form CR282). No amendment was made to the year of birth. Do you know how Ivy proved her age when she became eligible for the aged pension? It seems she thought she was born in 1924.
Debra :)
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Sometimes you have to think laterally, you may have already checked the following but worth a mention.
Did Sarah have any siblings of childbearing age in 23/24? Sister/sister in law perhaps died in childbirth?
Have you looked for a birth using the grandmother’s maiden name.
Have you found Sarah’s birth to confirm her name was Balham?
Does the DNA confirm her maternal line?
Do you know what school Ivy attended, checked records for parents names?
Other than 1939, which doesn’t give relationships, what proof do you have that Sarah was her mother?
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Totally out there
But could she have been adopted by the couple and actually have been a child of single mother of Sarah s brother as you implied DNA matches that side
Where does fact that she was born to single mother come from ?
*sorry already mentioned by Jc26
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I think that any Smethwick birth would have been recorded in West Bromwich district in the 1920s.
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...although Sarah Grace may have gone away to give birth.
Could this be the birth registration? Although it's Bristol and a bit later than February.
Sep 1924
Ballam Ivy MMN Ballam Bristol 6a 97
UPDATE: Disregard Bristol birth above. Looks like the child died in 1924.
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Who did Ivy name as her father when she married? Is there definite knowledge that Sarah was her mother?
In July 1984 an amendment was made to add the middle name 'Lucy' (Form CR282). No amendment was made to the year of birth. Do you know how Ivy proved her age when she became eligible for the aged pension? It seems she thought she was born in 1924.
Debra :)
Hi Debra, we noticed the Lucy too. We don't know her to have had the name Lucy, but thought if it was hand written on a document, Ivy can look like Lucy (especially how she used to write it). Do you know what the form CR282 would be for? If she was born in 1924, she would have reached pension age in 1984. Could the 1939 register have been updated off the back of something to do with her pension?
I've ordered her marriage certificate, but I'm expecting it to say Joseph is her father.
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Sometimes you have to think laterally, you may have already checked the following but worth a mention.
Did Sarah have any siblings of childbearing age in 23/24? Sister/sister in law perhaps died in childbirth?
Have you looked for a birth using the grandmother’s maiden name.
Have you found Sarah’s birth to confirm her name was Balham?
Does the DNA confirm her maternal line?
Do you know what school Ivy attended, checked records for parents names?
Other than 1939, which doesn’t give relationships, what proof do you have that Sarah was her mother?
All Sarah's siblings were male, but I can explore whether they may have had a wife that died. There is DNA link via Sarah's grandmother, but it's sketchy because it's 3 generations up from Ivy and over via a half sibling before down several generations to the other matches, so it's possible that her mother was not Sarah but a was a blood relative of Sarah.
We have found Sarah's birth record with surname Ballham.
Thank you for the school suggestion, we do know the name of the school so I will check that out.
Now you come to mention it, I don't think we have anything saying for certain that Sarah was her mother. I have the 1921 census but Ivy is living with Sarah's mother. Our understanding is that she lived with Sarah's mother for most of her childhood.
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The 1939 register was used by the NHS and updated until 1991.
The change of name at marriage is noted - 29-5-48 QAA (district code for Birmngham) and the surname FRENCH added.
The forms CR282 and CR283 were used to alter a first name or a surname other than by marriage. The name is definitely 'Lucy', the date might be 19-7-84. District codes starting with DN are in Surrey but none of them looks like what is written there. It might not be a district code but DN for Devon, I don't know.
https://www.findmypast.com.au/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts
Debra :)
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Now you come to mention it, I don't think we have anything saying for certain that Sarah was her mother. I have the 1921 census but Ivy is living with Sarah's mother. Our understanding is that she lived with Sarah's mother for most of her childhood
If Ivy is on the 1921 census she must have been born before 1923. Perhaps one of Sarah’s brothers got a girl in trouble and Sarah’s mother bought Ivy up. She would still be the grandmother.
Was Sarah’s mother a widow or separated at this time? When was she born? Sometimes when a young daughter got into trouble the parents passed the child off as their own, perhaps Sarah’s mother did the reverse stating the child was a granddaughter instead of her daughter.
My own great grandmother had children up to the age of 49….! Her daughter went to live with her aunt, 1911 she is down twice… as living with her mother and also at her aunt’s address. 1921 she is pencilled in as adopted daughter. Thankfully, we knew the story of why she lived her aunt and she always knew her real parents.
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Hi Michael. We don't think she would have been registered as Page, because Sarah didn't marry Joseph Page until 1927 and we know Joseph was not her biological father. DNA testing indicates her biological father probably had the surname Stead.
Have you browsed the 1921 to see if a male named STEAD lived nearby?
Sue
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Now you come to mention it, I don't think we have anything saying for certain that Sarah was her mother. I have the 1921 census but Ivy is living with Sarah's mother. Our understanding is that she lived with Sarah's mother for most of her childhood
If Ivy is on the 1921 census she must have been born before 1923. Perhaps one of Sarah’s brothers got a girl in trouble and Sarah’s mother bought Ivy up. She would still be the grandmother.
Sorry, that's me getting confused! No, Ivy is not on the 1921 census - I have Sarah and her mother living together. Sarah's parents separated between the 1901 and 1911 censuses. In 1911 Sarah is living with her mum and her brothers are living with their paternal grandparents.