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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: LucasKernan on Thursday 07 April 22 01:19 BST (UK)
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Ellen Kernan (maiden name Donelly) was born in some time in December 1872 in Northern Ireland. She immigrated in the 1890s. She married a Person called William Kernan in New Jersey, America in the year 1895. William came from Southern Ireland. In the New Jersey State of 1915, it says that Ellen Kernan (Ellen Donnelly) was born in Northern Ireland. Can You find the parents of Ellen Kernan (Ellen Donnelly, she had a brother and sister living in Ireland).
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There were 24 Ellen Donnelly registrations 1872/1873, if she was born at the end on 1872 it might have been registered early the following year. You can view the records on the site below, however the 24 were spread over the whole of Ireland, you would need to have some idea of where to look or go through them all. It is an easy site to view once you get used to it but it is free!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
Colin
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If you know names of her siblings you could also search for their births and if they stayed in Ireland, as you say, here is a link to the census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV97-TBLS
Is this her in 1915? I don’t see Northern Ireland and her birth is given as December 1873.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV97-TBLS
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Good find, heywood! ;)
I think it's been transcribed incorrectly.
There are seven children on the next page, several of which definitely say Kernan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QP-56RC?i=3&cc=2061544&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV97-TBLS
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The US census taken after the partition of Ireland
1930
William Kernan, 57, born Irish Free State
Ellen Kernan, 56, born Ireland North
Transcribed Hernan on FamilySearch
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRCN-CV9
1940
William Kernan, 68, born S Ireland
Ellen Kernan, 86(?), born N Ireland
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899M-37D8
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Thanks, so it is in later censuses. That’s a help. :)
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The problem is that you need more details to cross-check any possible birth records found in Ireland. Is there a marriage or death certificate which lists name of her parents?
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Some trees have the marriage:
26th July 1895 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
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Thanks! Maybe I need A little more Information
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The problem is that you need more details to cross-check any possible birth records found in Ireland. Is there a marriage or death certificate which lists name of her parents?
Hi there,
I think if you answer Aghadowey's question you will go a long way towards making a break through in your quest.
JM (I am in NSW Australia, and like all of us, we are volunteers. Some members may have been busy with living family matters, particularly as Easter is this coming weekend.)
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I have Found A Newspaper about her death in New Jersey. It says that she had one Brother and one Sister living somewhere in Ireland (could be Northern Ireland).
Here is The NewsPaper:
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That's good,
So perhaps you can use the info gleaned there in that obit to help you find her death certificate to see what is recorded on that official document about her origins. As mentioned earlier, I am in NSW Australia, so I am familiar with what information is on NSW death certificates. I have very little need to research in New Jersey USA, so I cannot comment on what to expect on a New Jersey death cert.
ADD, but perhaps the 1895 marriage cert in New Jersey would be a more reliable document, as it should contain in about Ellen that she herself provided.
JM
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There is no background on Ellen Donnelly (Who Married William Kernan). It only Has there names listed and location of Marriage.
Thanks,
Luke
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There is no background on Ellen Donnelly (Who Married William Kernan). It only Has there names listed and location of Marriage.
Thanks,
Luke
I found out that her name 'Donnelly' is a Ulster Family Name. Here for More Information:
www.houseofnames.com/amp/donnelly-family-crest
※please help me find hers parents
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There were 24 Ellen Donnelly registrations 1872/1873, if she was born at the end on 1872 it might have been registered early the following year. You can view the records on the site below, however the 24 were spread over the whole of Ireland, you would need to have some idea of where to look or go through them all. It is an easy site to view once you get used to it but it is free!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
The US census taken after the partition of Ireland
1930
William Kernan, 57, born Irish Free State
Ellen Kernan, 56, born Ireland North
Transcribed Hernan on FamilySearch
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRCN-CV9
1940
William Kernan, 68, born S Ireland
Ellen Kernan, 86(?), born N Ireland
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899M-37D8
That narrows Ellen's county of birth to 6 of the 9 counties of the Province of Ulster which became the state of Northern Ireland a century ago.
The counties are Antrim, Armagh, Derry/Londonderry, Fermanagh, Tyrone.
There were several registration districts in each county. Some registration districts crossed county boundaries.
SWilson Info is a useful website for identifying registration districts:
https://www.swilson.info/index.php
Select topic Registration District Map Browse from menu.
Select a county from alphabetical list and enter it in county box. This will bring up a list of registration districts in that county. Note down list of districts. Repeat for each of the 6 counties. There are between 5 and 10 registration districts per county. Some are in more than 1 county. The list of registration districts can then be used to decide which Ellen Donnelly birth registrations on the civil registrations website Irish Genealogy.ie are worth looking at.
Registration District Map Browse function can also be used to find lists of civil parishes, towns and townlands within each registration district. Click on name of a registration district for list of civil parishes in the district. Click on name of a civil parish for list of towns and townlands in the registration district.
SWilson Info has many uses for Irish family history research, particularly for identifying places. It's another free site.
I believe that the website owner is a volunteer on an Irish FH forum, giving his time & expertise free, like RootsChat members do on this site. :)
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The counties are Antrim, Armagh, Derry/Londonderry, Fermanagh, Tyrone.
Maiden Stone, you've forgotten Co Down! ;)
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Looking at children’s names - any clues?
1910 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKBL-1BR
Bartholomew - (after William’s father?)
Mary E
William
Patrick
Hellen
Anna
Edward
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The counties are Antrim, Armagh, Derry/Londonderry, Fermanagh, Tyrone.
Maiden Stone, you've forgotten Co Down! ;)
:-[I'll personally apologise to every inhabitant of Co. Down. I'll blame "Derry/Londonderry which made the list seem as if it had 6 names. Or I'll make the excuse that I was looking into the future when rise in sea levels caused by global warming has eroded coastal counties. My home will be underwater too. :'( I'll go down to the shore later with my binoculars to check if County Down is still there. ;D
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There is no background on Ellen Donnelly (Who Married William Kernan). It only Has there names listed and location of Marriage.
Thanks,
Luke
Sorry, but that does not make sense to me. If that is all the info on the actual document, then it does not actually indicate that couple are your ancestors. Are you looking at an actual record, or just at an index of a record....
Who were the witnesses, any clergy/denomination named, what status .... bachelor/spinster, divorcee, widow etc, when and where, occupations, ages, etc
JM
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Some trees have the marriage:
26th July 1895 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
:D
JM
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It is in World records, Find my Past. I can’t access but there is a record William Kernan 1895 with spouse Donnelly.
The record I see just has dashes for parents and even spouse name. Ellen’s record doesn’t show spouse but the film number matches.
Here is the index on family search
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rgx/
That's annoying. ;)
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It is in World records, Find my Past. I can’t access but there is a record William Kernan 1895 with spouse Donnelly.
The record I see just has dashes for parents and even spouse name. Ellen’s record doesn’t show spouse but the film number matches.
Here is the index on family search
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rgx/
The index is from the Orphans' Court of Philadelphia.
"A Brief History of The Pennsylvania Orphans' Court"
https://cdn.alexpell.com/history_PA_orphans_court.pdf
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Sorry, but that does not make sense to me. If that is all the info on the actual document, then it does not actually indicate that couple are your ancestors. Are you looking at an actual record, or just at an index of a record....
Who were the witnesses, any clergy/denomination named, what status .... bachelor/spinster, divorcee, widow etc, when and where, occupations, ages, etc
JM
America is different from European countries
Thanks,
Luke
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Do you think that this https://chrc-phila.org/ indicates that the Find my Past record I quoted above might be a marriage record rather than index?
Or is that what you already have?
Scroll down the page
“CHRC joined with FindMyPast to make historical parish baptismal and marriage records available to the public. Pre-1919 records are on-line and can be searched and downloaded”
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Sorry, but that does not make sense to me. If that is all the info on the actual document, then it does not actually indicate that couple are your ancestors. Are you looking at an actual record, or just at an index of a record....
Who were the witnesses, any clergy/denomination named, what status .... bachelor/spinster, divorcee, widow etc, when and where, occupations, ages, etc
JM
America is different from European countries
Thanks,
Luke
Yes, agree, 1890s 48 states, each had its own way of recording marriages. I am not in Europe. I am in Australia, we have 8 jurisdictions, each with their own way to record marriages. BUT .... I do have relatives in California, and they have exchanged images of the registration of their ancestors and there is a tad more info available, including denomination, age, status, occupation, native place.
JM.
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Why consider a marriage in Pennsylvannia ... why not look for one in New Jersey....
JM
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Why consider a marriage in Pennsylvannia ... why not look for one in New Jersey....
JM
Initially a published tree showed that place and year. The first couple of children were born in Pennsylvania and then this record seems to support the tree information.
It would be good if FindMyPast shows more details then it might confirm it.
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That's only an INDEX ... phew, so our OP could chase up to find the actual document.
JM
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That's only an INDEX ... phew, so our OP could chase up to find the actual document.
It's Marriage License Index 1885-1916 from Orphans' Court Philadelphia. Presumably Ellen (or William) was an orphan.
The Find My Past listing found by heywood, linked to Philadelphia Catholic church records may yield more, or perhaps not if it's only from a church marriage register. (My granddad married in England, his father was named in church register; his brother married in Ireland, father not named in church marriage register. Granddad's 1st wife's parents married in a County Dublin parish, mid 19thC., both parents named in church register + their residences + witnesses' residences. There was no set way.)
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Why consider a marriage in Pennsylvannia ... why not look for one in New Jersey....
Initially a published tree showed that place and year. The first couple of children were born in Pennsylvania and then this record seems to support the tree information.
It would be good if FindMyPast shows more details then it might confirm it.
Are we certain that we're not looking at 2 different William Kernan & Ellen Donnelly couples? Kiernan and Donnelly are common surnames.
Lucas said in his first post that the marriage was in New Jersey. What was his source for a New Jersey marriage?
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it is possible to merge all these Kernan/Kearns/Donnelly thread? Would that make a difference to searchers, once we get concrete info to search for.
Could the Mods do some magic please?
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For example, I think the thread this post is currently part of, could be merged into the thread I am quoting it on, :D
All our Global Moderators are volunteers too, so it may take a tad of patience as they have real lives, away from RChat too. :D
JM
Ellen Kernan (maiden name Donelly) was born in some time in December 1872 in Northern Ireland. She immigrated in the 1890s. She married a Person called William Kernan in New Jersey, America in the year 1895. William came from Southern Ireland. In the New Jersey State of 1915, it says that Ellen Kernan (Ellen Donnelly) was born in Northern Ireland. Can You find the parents of Ellen Kernan (Ellen Donnelly, she had a brother and sister living in Ireland).
Please Tell Me The Parents Of ELLEN DONNELLY!
(Do not tell me to research)
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Replies 31 & 32, shanreagh & majm. I've asked mods for a merger. I've been putting my replies on this thread.
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Thanks MS, very kind of you.
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Replies 31 & 32, shanreagh & majm. I've asked mods for a merger. I've been putting my replies on this thread.
That’s A Good Idea, Thanks!
Best Regards,
Lucas
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Are we certain that we're not looking at 2 different William Kernan & Ellen Donnelly couples? Kiernan and Donnelly are common surnames.
Lucas said in his first post that the marriage was in New Jersey. What was his source for a New Jersey marriage?
Reply to this, It was My Mistake of putting New Jersey, instead of Philidaphia.
Thanks,
Luke
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Have you obtained the digitised image of the actual 1895 documents as mentioned by Maiden Stone and Heywood and others?
ADD, at least witnesses, and denomination ... often witnesses are family members, and denomination may help those with much experience of Irish look-ups.
JM
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Have you obtained the digitised image of the actual 1895 documents as mentioned by Maiden Stone and Heywood and others?
ADD, at least witnesses, and denomination ... often witnesses are family members, and denomination may help those with much experience of Irish look-ups.
JM
She was probably an orphan because the record they used had the name orphan in it. William Kernan was not An orphan so she was likely an orphan
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It's Marriage License Index 1885-1916 from Orphans' Court Philadelphia. Presumably Ellen (or William) was an orphan.
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Have you obtained the digitised image of the actual 1895 documents as mentioned by Maiden Stone and Heywood and others?
ADD, at least witnesses, and denomination ... often witnesses are family members, and denomination may help those with much experience of Irish look-ups.
JM
She was probably an orphan because the record they used had the name orphan in it. William Kernan was not An orphan so she was likely an orphan
That's only an index though. Was there not a record of the wedding ceremony?
Can you give an opinion on what heywood asked about a record on Find My Past and a link to Catholic registers from Philadelphia? It's Reply #24 on page 3 of this thread.
I don't know what documentation a marriage there required.
Do you know, or can you work out, the year Ellen emigrated?
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I found a Depature List
This is the first (Migration • New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891)
Name Ellen Donnelly
Sex Female
Age 18
Travel Place NEW YORK, New York, United States
Arrival Place USA
Departure Date 16 May 1890
Departure Place Ireland
Birth Date 1872
Marital Status Single
Occupation DOMESTIC SVT
Source Amended N
Arrival Port NEW YORK
Departure Port LONDONDERRY
Ship Name DEVONIA
Shipping Company ANCHOR LINE OF MAIL STEAMSHIPS
※Derry, officially Londonderry (/ˈlʌndəndɛri/), is the second-largest city in Northern Ireland and the fifth-largest city on the island of Ireland.
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I found a Depature List
This is the first (Migration • New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891)
Name Ellen Donnelly
Sex Female
Age 18
Travel Place NEW YORK, New York, United States
Arrival Place USA
Departure Date 16 May 1890
Departure Place Ireland
Birth Date 1872
Marital Status Single
Occupation DOMESTIC SVT
Source Amended N
Arrival Port NEW YORK
Departure Port LONDONDERRY
Ship Name DEVONIA
Shipping Company ANCHOR LINE OF MAIL STEAMSHIPS
※Derry, officially Londonderry (/ˈlʌndəndɛri/), is the second-largest city in Northern Ireland and the fifth-largest city on the island of Ireland.
They weren’t rich so I think this is it. (Plus on the census it says immigrated in 1890)
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Derry was a major port of emigration. Ellen may have travelled from another county or province to go onboard ship at Derry.
"The Port of Derry and its' Diaspora" article by Brian Mitchell
https://genealogical.com/2019/10/07/the-port-of-derry-and-its-diaspora-by-brian-mitchell/
I'd hoped that Ellen was going to a named relative.
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It's Marriage License Index 1885-1916 from Orphans' Court Philadelphia. Presumably Ellen (or William) was an orphan.
So from that INDEX, what is actually recorded on the actual document that that actual index is actually pointing to?
Indexes are not actually records, but are good for aiding your own efforts at looking up. Indexes are not just a tool for family history. Indexes pre-date the internet.
JM
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It's Marriage License Index 1885-1916 from Orphans' Court Philadelphia. Presumably Ellen (or William) was an orphan.
So from that INDEX, what is actually recorded on the actual document that that actual index is actually pointing to?
Indexes are not actually records, but are good for aiding your own efforts at looking up. Indexes are not just a tool for family history. Indexes pre-date the internet.
JM
I’m looking for some so be stay toned
Thanks,
Lucas
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I found a living Granddaughter of Ellen Donnelly and William Kernan called. Maybe I could contact her.
Thanks,
Luke
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Luke.
It is Rootschat policy that we don’t post names of living people. Just go to modify on the post and you can amend it.
Great though that you have found someone. :)
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Back in reply #21, heywood mentioned-
It is in World records, Find my Past. I can’t access but there is a record William Kernan 1895 with spouse Donnelly.
FindMyPast World. Marriage record in Latin - it has no day/month date but page date has 1895.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rh0/ (subscription site)
Maybe someone can decipher the names and surnames.
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That’s great. Many thanks KG. :)
This is what I think it reads.
After 3 sets of Banns.
William Kernan, from Ireland son of Bart. Kernan and Ellen Kelly and
Ellen Donnelly from Ireland daughter of Patrick Donnelly and Ellen McKenna
Witnesses: Bernard Kernan and Cath. Kernan/Keanan ( not sure re that name)
Priest Gerald P Coghlan
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Here is one but the year of birth is out - 1869
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03409/2250344.pdf
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I found a living Granddaughter of Ellen Donnelly and William Kernan called Xxxxxxxxx. Maybe I could contact her.
Thanks,
Luke
You really need to remove this name asap Lucas. It is easy to find all sorts of information about her via a simple internet search.
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That's a good find, heywood ;D
Here's the townland of Sluggan.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/termonmaguirk/athenree/sluggan/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4555043#map=12/54.5902/-7.1329
KG
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I found a living Granddaughter of Ellen Donnelly and William Kernan called Xxxxxxxxx. Maybe I could contact her.
Thanks,
Luke
You really need to remove this name asap Lucas. It is easy to find all sorts of information about her via a simple internet search.
Thanks for letting me know
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Here is one but the year of birth is out - 1869
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03409/2250344.pdf
You deciphered it and I looked at those whitenesses, and they are my Relatives!
Now I know Ellens Parents! I’m so Happy! THANKS EVERYONE!
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Just looking at the 1900 census.
Name is Kernen.
Census 1900
Allen Township, Northampton, Pennsylvania, United States
Birth December 1872
Ireland
Marriage 1896
Spouses William Kernen
Children Bartholemew Kernen, Mary Kernen
There is a lot of info from the original record on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3QR-TQS
There is a tree on FS that has Ellen Donnelly coming to NY in 1891 on the Umbria embarking at Queenstown
Perhaps OP should have a look at this tree as there are others looking it seems and fairly recently. The name seems to vary between Kernan, Kernen and Hernen.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/2W92-F1B
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I would feel better if we could confirm the birth by finding those relatives who were alive and in Ireland at the time of her death.
I have looked for a marriage/death for Ellen to try to challenge that birth but can’t see anything locally.
We are still dealing with common surnames for the area.
To some extent, the immigration date is not that relevant (or as relevant) as the marriage record which is supported by witness names and residence.
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I agree.
Finding the siblings who were alive at her death or even siblings, full stop, would be useful.
ETA.....I am not sure that the record of the marriage and a link to the Orphans court necessarily meant that one or other of the parties were orphans ......from searching in Phila for my family I seem to remember this.
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https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/2W92-F1B
I am just popping the above link to a SUBMITTED tree, as it has Ellen's dod as 27 January 1943. I have not made any attempt to validate any detail on that submission. But it may be a starting point for others.
OOPS, sorry, duplicating shanreagh's good work. :-[ :-[ :-[
JM
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Ellen Kernan's mother Ellen Donnelly died on 31/5/1901 as a widow and her son Peter Donnelly reported the death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05728/4616446.pdf
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Yes I saw that and a marriage for Peter to Mary Mallon.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10215/5718336.pdf
The witness there is Dan Donnelly - there is one in Sluggan who is possibly a cousin or just neighbour even.
There is a death for Patrick in 1872 possibly.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020727/7272051.pdf
Note - I keep using ‘possibly’ as it is still so uncertain. :-\
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There is a tree on FS that has Ellen Donnelly coming to NY in 1891 on the Umbria embarking at Queenstown
Perhaps OP should have a look at this tree as there are others looking it seems and fairly recently. The name seems to vary between Kernan, Kernen and Hernen.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/2W92-F1B
Queenstown is now called Cobh. It's the port for the city of Cork.
If Ellen Donnelly lived in a county in Ulster, would she not have been more likely to have left on a ship from Derry or Belfast than travel all the way down to Cork? Although I know that there was an extensive railway in Ireland then. Ellen may have worked away from home. (My ancestor left her home in Mayo to work as a domestic servant in Belfast.)
All the young women on the page of the passenger list were domestic servants. There were as many young single Irishwomen as young Irishmen emigrating to U.S. in those decades.
Dates of birth stated and estimated birth years on those census transcriptions vary a bit. Was a census in Pennsylvania always taken in the same month? I can't read the originals. There's some discrepancy in immigration years; were they calculated from number of years resident in U.S.? Perhaps Ellen didn't always remember exactly. Ellen and William on census are sometimes same age, sometimes he was a year older, sometimes she was a year older than him.
1900 census Ellen aged 28, birth Dec. 1872; immigration year 1890
1905 census Ellen age 32, est. birth year 1873
1910 census Ellen age 37, est. yob 1873; estimated immigration year 1889
1915 census birth date Dec. 1873
1920 census age 45, est. yob 1874; immigration yr 1890
1930 census age 56, est. yob 1874; immigration year 1903
1940 census age 85, est. yob 1854 (May be transcription error; husband William was 68)
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Queenstown is now called Cobh. It's the port for the city of Cork.
If Ellen Donnelly lived in a county in Ulster, would she not have been more likely to have left on a ship from Derry or Belfast than travel all the way down to Cork? Although I know that there was an extensive railway in Ireland then. Ellen may have worked away from home. (My ancestor left her home in Mayo to work as a domestic servant in Belfast.)
All the young women on the page of the passenger list were domestic servants. There were as many young single Irishwomen as young Irishmen emigrating to U.S. in those decades.
Dates of birth stated and estimated birth years on those census transcriptions vary a bit. Was a census in Pennsylvania always taken in the same month? I can't read the originals. There's some discrepancy in immigration years; were they calculated from number of years resident in U.S.? Perhaps Ellen didn't always remember exactly. Ellen and William on census are sometimes same age, sometimes he was a year older, sometimes she was a year older than him.
1900 census Ellen aged 28, birth Dec. 1872; immigration year 1890
1905 census Ellen age 32, est. birth year 1873
1910 census Ellen age 37, est. yob 1873; estimated immigration year 1889
1915 census birth date Dec. 1873
1920 census age 45, est. yob 1874; immigration yr 1890
1930 census age 56, est. yob 1874; immigration year 1903
1940 census age 85, est. yob 1854 (May be transcription error; husband William was 68)
Thats helpful
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This is a birth for Peter Donelly with the same parents
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
There should be at least one sister according to the obituary.
A published tree for Peter Donnelly shows siblings: Ellen (no further details other than the birth we have) and Sarah Ann.
The difficulty is that the tree shows a marriage for Sarah Ann to Bernard Rafferty (the tree owner is Rafferty) seems to have the fathers mixed up.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10821/5946422.pdf
Just another puzzle. ;)
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A published tree for Peter Donnelly shows siblings: Ellen (no further details other than the birth we have) and Sarah Ann.
The difficulty is that the tree shows a marriage for Sarah Ann to Bernard Rafferty (the tree owner is Rafferty) seems to have the fathers mixed up.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10821/5946422.pdf
Patrick Donnelly, father of the Sarah Ann who married Bernard Rafferty was marked "living" on the marriage registration. You found a possible death for a Patrick Donnelly of Sluggan in 1872 (reply 60).
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That's a good find, heywood ;D
Here's the townland of Sluggan.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/termonmaguirk/athenree/sluggan/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4555043#map=12/54.5902/-7.1329
Townland database on SWilson.Info
https://www.swilson.info/db/townlanddbs.php
Civil parish Termonmaguirk
Poor Law Union Omagh
Barony Omagh
(There's also a Sloughan townland in Longfield West civil parish, Castlederg PLU, County Tyrone)
RC parish browse & search on SWilson.Info
https://www.swilson.info/rcparishbrws.php
Parish name Termonaguirk (Carrickmore)
Diocese Armagh
Map + list of nearby parishes + link to parish registers on National Library of Ireland website.
Catholic Registers on National Library of Ireland website: Termonmaguirk/Carrickmore
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0196
Baptisms & marriages 1834-1857 (Transcripts on Ancestry and Find My Past)
Baptism and marriage registers 1881-1911 are on Ancestry.
The parish is shown on a map + names of adjacent parishes. Click on name of a parish to see what registers each has.
That means there's a long gap in Termonmaguirk/Carrickmore registers 1858-1880, the time when Ellen Donnelly (+ some of her siblings) would have been baptised.
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This is a birth for Peter Donelly with the same parents
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
There should be at least one sister according to the obituary.
A published tree for Peter Donnelly shows siblings: Ellen (no further details other than the birth we have) and Sarah Ann.
Birth registration for Sarah Ann 1866. Informant of Sarah and Ellen's birth was Mary Donnelly, residence Sluggan.
There were an awful lot of Donnelly births & deaths in Omagh district.
Someone mentioned a Daniel Donnelly (a marriage witness?). A Daniel Donnelly of Sluggan married Ann O'Neill 1870. Dan was a farmer. His father was also Daniel, farmer, dead. Daniel & Ann had a daughter, Ellen 1876.
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Here's the townland of Sluggan.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/termonmaguirk/athenree/sluggan/
There was a Patrick Donnelly in Sluggan townland on Griffiths Valuation. Also a Mary with a house & small garden, (a Mary Donnelly was informant of births in 1860's) and a Daniel + other holdings of Donnelly males. 50 Donnelly entries on Griffiths Valuation in Termonmaguirk civil parish.
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A published tree for Peter Donnelly shows siblings: Ellen (no further details other than the birth we have) and Sarah Ann.
The difficulty is that the tree shows a marriage for Sarah Ann to Bernard Rafferty (the tree owner is Rafferty) seems to have the fathers mixed up.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10821/5946422.pdf
Patrick Donnelly, father of the Sarah Ann who married Bernard Rafferty was marked "living" on the marriage registration. You found a possible death for a Patrick Donnelly of Sluggan in 1872 (reply 60).
The difficulty is, as I wrote, the fathers were mixed up or certainly puzzling.
Sarah Ann Donnelly’s father is shown as Patrick Rafferty, living.
Bernard Rafferty’s father is shown as John Donnelly dead.
I had found a Sarah Ann in 1866 with parents John and Mary and it seemed unlikely that she was a sister to Ellen as the tree indicates.
However here is Sarah Ann with parents Patrick and Ellen so that is great.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03519/2294481.pdf
So, is she the one who married Bernard Rafferty?
Apologies if these records are posted elsewhere.
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Ellen Kernan's mother Ellen Donnelly died on 31/5/1901 as a widow and her son Peter Donnelly reported the death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05728/4616446.pdf
Peter stated his mother's age was 70. She'd admitted to only 60 on the census a few weeks earlier.
1901 census Tyrone/Athenree/Sluggan House 5
Ellen Donnelly, 60, head of household, farmer, widow, born Co. Tyrone
Peter Donnelly 27, son, single
2 more Donnelly households in Sluggan townland,
Patrick + brother John House 4
Annie (widow) + sons Daniel, John & Peter + daughter, Rose at House 8
There was also a McKernan household at House 1. McKernan is a variant of Kernan.
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Reply 68 heywood. Sorry I didn't notice the real mix-up with fathers on the marriage registration. I'd tried and failed to decipher place-names. :-[
I started looking for a Bernard Rafferty on 1901 census but gave up.
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Just in case the Rafferty/Donelly record was a big mix up and it was Bernard’s parent who was living:
1901 census
Bernard and Sarah Ann - house #7 in Rehagy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Ballymagran/Rehaghy/1733911/
1901
John Rafferty, wife Frances at house #9
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Ballymagran/Rehaghy/1733913/
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1901 census
Bernard and Sarah Ann - house #7 in Rehagy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Ballymagran/Rehaghy/1733911/
To confirm it was the Bernard Rafferty who married Sarah Ann Donnelly. Births of 3 youngest children registered in Dungannon SRD, parents Bernard & Sarah Ann, mother's maiden surname Donnelly. Patrick 1895, Peter 1897, William 1899. https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
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Yes, that’s good.
I just had another look to see if there are more trees or information.
There are a few and they have marriages for Peter Donnelly /Mary Mallon and Sarah Ann Donnelly/Bernard Rafferty.
Ellen Donnelly is on the trees as a sibling to Peter and Sarah Ann but no mention after her birth.
This is encouraging as it may show that she was not on the scene due to her emigration.
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It is amazing how this is all coming together.
Here it is 5.16 p.m. in Nords Wharf, New South Wales, Australia, overcast and there's a definite 'chill' coming of the Lake (Lake Macquarie - largest coastal saltwater lake in Australia, perhaps in the Southern Hemisphere), heralding mid Autumn is here and Winter is perhaps 5 to 6 weeks away.
It is Easter Saturday and living family are visiting, and traditionally its NOT MY TURN to prepare the evening meal this evening. Bliss. I can sit with my oldies and 'yarn'. (I was born 1947, and some of the relatives here include people born 1917, 1919, 1921, 1924, 1928, 1932, 1935, 1937, 1939 - so some are a generation older than me). Some are retired clergy, others retired librarians, retired archivists, and there's several retired senior officers from NSW BDM. (They are my 'ancient rellies who help me respond to many quests at RChat). Then there's cousins, with their partners - grandchildren etc and even some 19 year olds, born THIS century. Some are interested in family history, others not so. Some are addicted to family history - including one of the 19 year olds. I think we will be yarning way into the midnight hours, and all day tomorrow and Monday and into Tuesday. Sixty-five people, - caravans, camper trailers, on sleep-out verandahs, and of course inside our home too.
I hope Luke has living family he can share all the fine efforts made for his quests here at RChat. I also hope that he explains how a group of volunteers, located around the world via a website built to support volunteer efforts help each other with searching for their deceased ancestors has done the work and deserves his support.
JM
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What a lovely post majm.
Your gathering sounds amazing. You and I are a similar age but I now have no one to check those kind of details with. My family are politely interested in our family research but certainly not committed to reading or researching the records. :)
I often wish my sister was still here as she would know who I am thinking of -the one who lived in that house or worked in that shop and so on.
My husband is a few years older than me and we grew up in the same area/school/church. We laugh about our conversations, especially during the restrictions, when we talk about people we knew. ‘His mother’s sister was ….’ etc.
Enjoy your day. Easter Saturday and the sun is shining here. Let’s hope it stays that way.
Happy Easter to you and yours. I am holding back from my favourite chocolate rabbit - difficult!
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beside my husbands bedside table is a wooden box with a lid. On top of lid are two books (cannot see their titles, facing wrong way), on top are his specs. NO ONE would dream of coming into our bedroom, but inside that box are the Easter Bunny deliveries that the adults discreetly gave him to MIND ... ready for tomorrow. I am hoping there's dark chocolate gingers, but just in case, in bottom of my side of our wardrobe there's plenty more Easter Eggs that I ordered last week. :D :D :D And I know some of the others have extras too.
Easter Egg hunt tomorrow....
Peace and Goodwill and Happy Easter to you and yours too.
JM
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Thats nice to hear. Speaking of Easter, thank you for helping me with my family tree. Thanks
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Ellen Donnelly is on the trees as a sibling to Peter and Sarah Ann but no mention after her birth.
This is encouraging as it may show that she was not on the scene due to her emigration.
One fly in the ointment is that the birth we found for that Ellen makes her a few years older than the Ellen on U.S. census returns. 3-5 years older depending on which census. However we know that Irish people of the era were inclined to be elastic about age, especially when trying to get a job, emigrating or getting married.
Another caveat is the common first names and surnames.
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I agree Maiden Stone. I think, if I recall, her age was always around that of her husband so maybe she made herself a bit younger :-\
I just hope that she is found.
Happy Easter to all.
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What a great team you have majm.
Enjoy your Easter.
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I was wondering if I could find the grandparents of Ellen Donnelly?
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I was wondering if I could find the grandparents of Ellen Donnelly?
This thread is now 10 pages long.
It would be easier if you did a pen portrait/summary of where we are now with the parents of Ellen
So look through the posts and link to the ones where you believe the parents are confirmed and list/link any other research you have done in addition.
Comes a time when, if people have helped, for the enquiring poster to reflect back your understanding of where we are.
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I was wondering if I could find the grandparents of Ellen Donnelly?
This thread is now 10 pages long.
It would be easier if you did a pen portrait/summary of where we are now with the parents of Ellen
So look through the posts and link to the ones where you believe the parents are confirmed and list/link any other research you have done in addition.
Comes a time when, if people have helped, for the enquiring poster to reflect back your understanding of where we are.
Lucas, this is good advice from shanreagh.
Having skimmed through the 10 pages, several replies on 15th April appear to contain information relevant to your next steps. Replies 48 (by Kiltaglasson), 49 & 50 (heywood), 52 (Kiltaglasson), 63 & 68 (heywood). You'll need to re-read the entire thread carefully in case something has been missed. As others cautioned, the surnames are common, and Ellen wasn't consistent about her age on census returns.
Birth registrations for Ellen + 2 siblings were found. Your next step is to search for the marriage of their parents.
There should be a civil record of the marriage if they married in Ireland in 1864 or later. A civil marriage registration included names of fathers. https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
If the marriage was before 1864, you'll need to look up church marriage registers. Weddings usually happened in bride's parish. https://registers.nli.ie if they were R.C.
http://www.swilson.info/index.php is useful for matching church parishes to places.
When you've done all that, come back and let us know how you got on.