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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: haney on Friday 22 April 22 02:38 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone
I am trying to find more information on two Steerage Passengers on board the above ship which arrived in Port Jackson via Hobart February 26 1822.
These ladies names were MARY DUNN and daughter Catherine DUNN. They are only named as Mrs Dunn and daughter though.
What are the chances of finding out any information on there origins or if they were actually living in KENT or just caught the ship from there.
I found three newspaper references to the ship! Don't know if anymore would be available from those.!!
APRIL 10 1821 - SUN (London)
APRIL 11 + 17- Public Ledger and Daily Advertiser.
The Captain was Daniel PEACHE and the surgeon was William Leggett. I tried to find a Journal for this trip but came up empty handed at the National Archives Kew. Not sure if I searched correctly though.
Both ladies I feel were Irish? Catholics who settled here in NSW. Any help finding out more on them would be great. Many thanks Dianna
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Newspaper articles that you mention say that the Britomart was now 'lying' in London Docks, it was previously in Her Majesty's Service. Why are you only looking in Kent, they could have come from anywhere to catch a sailing from London
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Hi Rosie thanks for that. Well I'm starting in Kent because that is all I know at the moment about Mary Dunn and her daughter. I don't know what maybe available on them re being passengers on the ship.
I was hoping that there maybe a log/journal or similar of the ship on that voyage just in case they are mentioned.
I don't know their origins as yet as I'm still checking in NSW which has turned up nothing so far. Regards Dianna
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Wikipedia has this to say (extract):
Britomart first appeared in the Register of Shipping (RS) and in Lloyd's Register (LR) in 1821. On 1 September 1821 an advertisement appeared in The Times that Britomart, Daniel Peache, commander, would be beginning a regular packet service between London and Van Diemen's Land and New South Wales, and that she had room for only a few passengers.
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Where is Kent mentioned. When were they both born
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Hi The only mention of Kent is where the ship left from in Deal!
Britomart’s first voyage to Australia was in 1822 – it arrived Hobart February 4th, Captain Daniel Peach, having departed Deal, England September 9th 1821, via Cape of Good Hope. It carried passengers and general merchandise. It departed Hobart for Port Jackson, Feb.26, later sailing for Valparaiso, Chile, returning later to Port Jackson.
Thanks Dianna
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Several newspapers report that the Britomart sailed to Van Diemans Land from London in February 1822. Apparently it was normal for ships to anchor at Deal waiting for the wind to be blowing in the right direction.
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I think the February reports are from another ship which "spoke" to Britomart off West Africa. After leaving Deal, she arrived at Portsmouth in mid-September, but was held up sheltering off the Isle of Wight for some time because of gales. Left the Cape of Good Hope for Van Diemens Land late December.
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Thanks Rosie, so the ship started at London, that MAY help not sure though if there would be many details of the Passengers on the Captains Log, if it exists. Just a clue would be great. I know Lloyds of London have a lot of details of the actual ships. If they were assisted immigrants that would have been better really as there are usually more details! Thanks for your time. regards Dianna
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Well my next question is these reports! Where do they come from! From the Captains various Logs. Sometimes the surgeons kept logs on the voyage as well.
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I have seen reference in “The Times” of Britomart in Portsmouth 4 Oct 1821 - with settlers for Botany Bay unable to proceed because of westerly winds.
It was usual at this time, for ships from London, to take on more passengers at Portsmouth.
Dianna, There might be more about the passenger list in Tasmanian Archives (research enquiry)
https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/results?qu=NI_SHIP_FACET%3D%22Britomart%22
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Hi Neale I will check Tasmania out. Just in case. Thanks for the tip. Dianna
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HI again. Just say's Dunn x 2 No names recorded. I will make further enquires though. They are for departures from hobart CUS33/1/3 p194. I may submit a research enquiry! Thanks
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This information has just been sent to me!
https://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/_transcript/2011/D03307/a2852.htm
Anonymous diary by a servant of the Scott family, 8 Aug. 1821-Mar. 1824 (written after 1825), with notes, 1832
MLMSS 7808 (Safe 1/403)
Doesn't mention the Dunn's specifically but it is interesting. Regards Dianna
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You can read the complete original diary here.
https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/record/nQR2DNd1
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Hi Neale thanks very much once again! Funny I'm just looking at ancestry for Mary DUNN and from the NSW CSPapers in 1823 there is possibly a JOHN DUNN convict per Shipley 2 who was assigned to Mary DUNN in Cockle Bay. Hmmm relative???? Son?? No Connection. Interesting. Regards Dianna
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Yes, it is curious. You mentioned that convict John Dunn in the other thread, and I tried to find some more information about him, but without success. There were a few convicts with that name, but none of them Irish, that I could see.
I have also been musing over why an elderly and obviously widowed Mary Dunn and her unmarried daughter would travel across the world to Sydney. What was their reason?
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Where is Kent mentioned. When were they both born
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Just a quick answer to a question...
Yes, it is curious. You mentioned that convict John Dunn in the other thread, and I tried to find some more information about him, but without success. There were a few convicts with that name, but none of them Irish, that I could see.
I have also been musing over why an elderly and obviously widowed Mary Dunn and her unmarried daughter would travel across the world to Sydney. What was their reason?
1. The Bigge Reports were being presented and mulled over
2. Consideration to more formally separate the admin of VDL from NSW and appointment of a Lieutenant Governor for VDL with tacit authority to deal direct with Whitehall in London rather than via NSW Governor (so reducing the 'benign dictatorship' role of NSW governor)
3. Development of plans for second and third generations of descendants of emancipated convicts and of garrison rank and file to actually settle in NSW or VDL
4. Initial considerations of formalising grants of land rather than the ad hoc paper system that was falling apart with lack of admin control (See John Oxley's reports re Surveyor-General roles and the toll it took on his actual health). (See also Frederick Goulburn and his role, and ... (point 5)
5. the concept of Grants of Land without Purchase was developing in both Sydney and London. It came to reality by 1824 and was still being touted as a way spread Christianity to the Antipodes in the early 1830s. So Church Missionary Societies could put together small groups of lay and clergy folk and send them by steerage to Sydney or Hobart and they carried letters from various VIP bods in London Colonial offices directing the admin in NSW or VDL to fulfill these grants without purchase.
6. Why did Mary DUNN and her daughter Catherine come to NSW - likely someone paid the steerage passage - likely the women had quality skills - tailor/dressmaker etc and
7. NSW and VDL populations were heavily biased towards eligible males. They needed more eligible women. I think 6 males to 1 female from around 1817 to around 1842. I have NOT got my source at hand, so I could have the years too wide spread.
JM I anticipate my husband and I will be home by Wednesday, so hopefully I will have time to check and confirm on that following weekend. BUT please don't overlook seeking out the actual images that are readily available at the Australian Joint Copying Project. The reel numbers are displayed at the original index for the Col Sec Papers - look for the link including the word introduction for that info, and look back at threads I have uploaded re AJCP ... once you get used to its complexity, depth, quality etc you won't regret it.
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Col Sec Papers index has Helenus SCOTT arriving with his brother Robert on the Britomart. (Helenus is a masculine name).
Reel 6009
14 March 1822 NOTICE he is being requested to furnish the Col Sec with information - seems to be he needs to provide the number of convicts he could support off the Stores for a grant of land in proportion to his means - this expression is often found in the NSW applications for Grants of Land without Purchase dating from 1825. https://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/s/F50c_sa-sf-07.htm#P3252_99614
Reel 6009 - live link : https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-735168742?searchTerm=reel%206009 So I am suggesting there may be info on that reel that refers to the voyage of Britomart. If so, it may refer to the Steerage passengers - perhaps only by Widow & daughter - or perhaps by their name and their native place. On the other hand it may be a wild goose chase.
JM
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I may have jumped a step or three or four, I will check the reel number and the AJCP info once I am home.
JM
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Good Morning
A bit of a different direction this morning. Just came across this on the BDA could be interesting:
Index search Results BYRNE, WILLIAM (b: before 1810) B# 32021093801
1827 JUN William BYRNE, Aged: Adult; [NSW AUS] Baptised: 26 June 1827, at APPIN. Registered @ St. Mary's Roman Catholic, Sydney Biog Item 320210938.
2 x Entries on NSW BDM for a William BYRNE in 1827
1) 859/1827 v1827 859 128 +
2) 833/1827 v1827 833 127.
Possibly this is Michael BYNES son???
Also still cannot find this CATHERINE DUNN/E BYRNE/S etc on the 1823/24/25 Muster. She seems to be still alive in 1823 as she and husband Michael are sponsors at a Baptism (after muster date???)
If I cannot find further information on her (as there is NO death recorded) I will just have to search Fr. Therry's Journal for any mention of her AROUND that time period. Daunting task I think. LOL
Hope this finds everyone well! Regards Dianna
Moderator comment - moved from Kent Resources
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Several newspapers report that the Britomart sailed to Van Diemans Land from London in February 1822. Apparently it was normal for ships to anchor at Deal waiting for the wind to be blowing in the right direction.
Several years ago I was researching a distant ancestor (for inclusion in a book that I was writing for family and friends) who was transported to Van Dieman's Land. I was stumped at first about the ship sailing from 'The Downs' -- this is what I discovered:-
The Downs lay between the Thames estuary and the Strait of Dover and afforded deep and sheltered anchorage to all manner of sailing ships. It was also a place where merchant ships, including transportation ships, would lay at anchor waiting for a favourable easterly wind to take them into the English Channel. It is recorded that ships could be at anchor here for long periods of time until the wind was in their favour.
The attached image (public domain) shows where 'The Downs' lay, just off Deal, Kent.
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Somewhere in my researches into sailing ship movements in the Channel, I am sure I saw a report of some passengers going ashore in Deal, and being left behind, presumably when the wind changed! I did wonder if they could have caught the ship up travelling by road, as there were usually other stops before leaving England.
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You can read the complete original diary here.
https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/record/nQR2DNd1
This link is so helpful, many thanks. I have an ancestor who travelled across to Hobart on this ship so now I have an account of his journey. The Shipping News in the Trove archives names my ancestor and his wife and also the two sons of Dr Helenus Scott (who died on board), Helenus junior and Robert, some other passengers and 9 steerage passengers. Here is the link:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1089637?searchTerm=Britomart