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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: IgorStrav on Monday 30 May 22 13:34 BST (UK)
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Hello all
I know that in older records the term "[relation] in law" in respect of a child could mean step-child.
I am researching an Irish family in the East End of London in the 1861, Limehouse St James.
The father's name is Patrick Donovan, his wife is Catherine (both born Ireland) and the two sons are Denis and John Donovan, both born Middlesex (Ancestry has transcribed them as Donovern)
Source Citation
RG 9/285/15 p32
Also present is Norah Donovan, aged 70, born Ireland, described as mother-in-law.
What are your views, please - could Norah be Catherine's mother, suggesting Catherine's maiden name is Donovan, like her husband's, or could Norah be Patrick's step mother?
I am trying to pin down Catherine's maiden name and have long lists from GRO of the potential births of the two boys in the Limehouse Docklands area of East London to see if I can find matching mothers names.
Thoughts welcomed. I have a number of certificates to buy to make sure I have the correct John Donovan who is the person I'm tracking.
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FindMyPast have Catholic baptisms in Stepney for
Denis born 27th Mar 1855
Ellena born 21st May 1857
Joannes born 1st Nov 1859
parents Patrick Donovan and Catherina nee Farrell
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Thank you! Must have missed those on FindMyPast
That would explain why some Ancestry Trees (unevidenced) give Catherine the surname Farrell.
And there’s a marriage which matches.
But unfortunately no birth refs. with mmn Farrell. And the birth years don’t quite match.
Will also have to look for Ellen.
No thoughts on Norah Donovan query from anyone? There’s a death in the right area in 1861 but even if I get the cert it won’t tell me much.
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Hi,IgorStrav, trust you are keeping well, have you yet found a common mmn for the 3 children yet?
John
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Hi John, yes all fine apart from the task of researching Irish families with well respected Irish names in East London docklands 😉
I have the possibility of Brien/Brian or McCarthy for the two boys but haven’t looked for Ellen yet - in the family I’ve tentatively attached to the John Donovan (c1860) I’m looking for there’s no Ellen.
I do have John’s marriage ref to Hannah Bennett in 1883 (sorry think that’s the right year, don’t have details in front of me. couldn’t see catholic record of this with online detail) and have ordered cert.
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No thoughts on Norah Donovan query from anyone? There’s a death in the right area in 1861 but even if I get the cert it won’t tell me much.
It might depending on who the informant was. If it said "daughter Catherine" for example (wishful thinking)
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Not sure which 1861 death you mean.
Honora Donovan 69
Mar 1861 St Olave Southwark, she was buried 2nd Jan 1861 so not her
Norah Donovan 5
Mar 1861 Whitechapel
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May not have worked this out correctly but could Catherine be born Donovan then married a Mr Farrell and was widowed so mothers maiden name would be Donovan for any children?
Do we know from the marriage to Patrick if she was a widow?
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There's a death reg Ellen Donovan age 0, Dec q 1857 Stepney 1c p 352
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Norah may also have remarried, so you can't assume Donovan would be the surname of her children.
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FindMyPast have Catholic baptisms in Stepney for
Denis born 27th Mar 1855
Ellena born 21st May 1857
Joannes born 1st Nov 1859
parents Patrick Donovan and Catherina nee Farrell
Is there any more information - Godparents names or even address which can be matched? Some Catholic records have the address.
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Godparents are
1855 Bartholomew Donovan
1857 Joannes Donovan
1859 Joannes Hurley with Maria Donovan for all three baptisms.
No addresses unfortunately.
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i think its most likely that catherine filled in the form or dictated it
and accidently put mother in law as relation to herself rather than husband
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Godparents are
1855 Bartholomew Donovan
1857 Joannes Donovan
1859 Joannes Hurley with Maria Donovan for all three baptisms.
No addresses unfortunately.
Thank you - the Bartholomew name may be a clue because the direct line I’m looking at comes via a Bartholomew Donovan.
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Not sure which 1861 death you mean.
Honora Donovan 69
Mar 1861 St Olave Southwark, she was buried 2nd Jan 1861 so not her
Norah Donovan 5
Mar 1861 Whitechapel
Thank you, you're quite right, neither of those will work, will they
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I'm wondering if she's mother
There's a Honora Donovan b 1792 admitted to Raine St Workhorse Stepney in April 1842, along with Daniel b 1818, Patrick b 1828 and Thomas b 1830. They were to be passed to Ireland
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Yes! I just saw those, Mabel - but there are a couple of other workhouse entries, too
In 1850 to Wapping Workhouse, a Hanorah Donovan admitted by the Relieving officer (very sadly) as ill and dirty, and then in the 1851 a Hanorah Donovan in the Poplar Union Workhouse.
So did she never go back to Ireland, or did she go and come back?
Or did she go back after her appearance in the 1861 which was the subject of my first post? Can't see a death for her, after seeing the one I thought might be her definitely couldn't be.
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Also an admission in 1843 in Hackney, so maybe she never went back?
There's a Honora Donovan who is admitted to Homerton workhouse in Sept 1869 and dies in November. Death is registered as Annorah. She's a widow - but she's born c1801
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Thank you for that death, I'll have a look out for it.
My heart really bleeds for them, coming across from hunger and penury in the Irish Famine and landing in the horror of the worst bits of East London.
Ancestry has just popped up a possible baptism for Patrick Donovan in Cork, son of Denis and Honora....