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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: pegwill on Friday 08 July 22 08:43 BST (UK)
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Hi Guys
I wonder if you can help me again please. This time I’m trying to find the Marriage Record of:
Henry Thomas – 1822-1879 (I’m not clear this is the date of death)
Charlotte Phillips – 1823- Date of death unknown.
My investigations lead me to believe they had a Son – Henry Thomas 1848-1931.
I got his mother’s maiden name (Phillips) from the General Register Office and his Fathers name (Henry Thomas) from his wedding to Charlotte Crawford in 1867.
Any help would be appreciated.
Have a good weekend
Regards
Pegwill
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Why did you pick the birth with mmn PHILLIPS?
Is this the one?
THOMAS, JOSEPH mmn PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01 Page 423
THOMAS, HENRY JOSEPH mmn PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01 Page 446
Is this why? 1851 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGXT-FSL
The mentioned 1867 marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6JN-KQW
Where is the family in 1861 and folks in 1871?
Jamjar
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I can’t see a marriage. Although PHILLIPS is the maiden name shown, she may have married as a widow.
Jamjar
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1861 census , RG09 54 140 47
John
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According to 1871 and the marriage of Henry to Charlotte Crawford in 1867, Henry snr is a Smith (tin, white).
If I have the right one in 1871 119 /72/32 his wife is now Sarah.
Here is their marriage, I think, where Henry snr is a Bachelor.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rog/
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1861 census , RG09 54 140 47
John
John, I have no way of finding that. Could you give the details, please?
Jamjar
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1851 1480 /555/25
Charlotte Thomas 22 yrs (abt 1829) Pimlico
1861 54 /140/47
Charlotte Thomas transcribed as 38 yrs but could be 31 yrs so b about 1823 or 1830
Born ‘Hobbrey, Shropshire
Could this be Habberley, Shropshire
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1867 Parish Church of St Mary Lambeth, Henry Thomas Jr, bachelor, minor, tin plate worker, Tyers Street, father Henry Thomas, tin plate worker married Charlotte Crawford, spinster, full age, father Robert Crawford, blind maker, witnessed by Robert Crawford and Edi Powell, Charlotte signed, Henry x
A possibility in 1851 Union Place St Margaret’s Westminster
Henry Thomas, 29, lodger, labourer, b. Bermondsey
Charlotte Thomas, 22, wife, b. Pimlico Westminster
Henry Thomas, 3, son
Another is this one…1851 Bird Street St George in the East
Henry Thompson, head, 39, tin plate worker, b. Shoreditch
Mary Ann, wife, 41, wife, b. St George
Elizabeth 14
Mary Ann 12
William 10mths
Henry 7
William, father, 73
Edward, brother, 33
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Hi,
@Jamjar, @johnhood, @heywood and @jomcd967
Thanks for all the information. I now need time to pull it all together. Once I've done that I will report back.
Thanks once again
Regards
Pegwill
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According to 1871 and the marriage of Henry to Charlotte Crawford in 1867, Henry snr is a Smith (tin, white).
If I have the right one in 1871 119 /72/32 his wife is now Sarah.
Here is their marriage, I think, where Henry snr is a Bachelor.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rog/
Is this them in 1881 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q273-DRVQ
James birth
Freebmd
Births Mar 1881
Thomas James Robert St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 462
GRO
THOMAS, JAMES HENRY STOKES
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 462
THOMAS, ANDREW HENRY mother's maiden name STOKES
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUAREGRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE
Other possible birth's
THOMAS, WILLIAM STOKES
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE
THOMAS, HARRIET ESTHER CATHERINE STOKES
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE
THOMAS, MATILDA STOKES STOKES
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 417
THOMAS, JOHN THOMAS STOKES
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 409
THOMAS, BLANCHE LILY STOKES
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 164
The address in the 1871 census is 7 New Peter Street
The 2 children highlighted in red were baptised in 1870 & 1876 respectively with an abode of 7, New Peter Street. Their parents Henry & Sarah--his occupation "Hawker"
All other children were baptised apart from Blanche in Westminster, parents Henry & Sarah Ann but no images available to show address or occupation.
John
Added,
Believe the marriage entry in 1868 is incorrect. Should read Henry is a widower and Sarah a spinster as her father is William Stokes?
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:354X-FT2
Possible death of Henry c1822 & Sarah c1840
Name: Henry Thomas
Gender: Male
Death Age: 78
Record Type: Death
Birth Date: abt 1822
Death Date: 20 Feb 1900
Death Poor Law Union: Saint Marylebone
Death Place: St Marylebone, Westminster, England
Register Type: Parish Register
Deaths Dec 1890
Thomas Sarah Ann aged 50 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 358
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Hi Guys
Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you.
Having assessed all the information I believe the following to be correct:
- the marriage entry in 1868 is incorrect. Should read Henry is a widower and Sarah a spinster as her father is William Stokes – This would also make sense as Henry Thomas Jnr DOB 1848. The 1891 Census shows Henry a Widower at age 70 making Henry’s DOB 1821 – Close enough.
- 1861 54 /140/47 - Charlotte Thomas transcribed as 38 yrs. but could be 31 yrs so b about 1823 or 1830. Born ‘Hobbrey, Shropshire’ so as suggested probably Habberley, Shropshire. I could not find any ‘Charlotte’ born in Habberley around the two dates.
- I could not find a Charlotte Thomas who died between 1848 (the birth of Henry Jnr) and 1868 (the date of Henry Sen 2nd Marriage).
- I assumed that Henry Jnrs mother’s maiden name was Phillips (taken from the Government Register) as in 1848 as far as I could tell Henry Jnr was the only Henry Thomas born in London around that date.
- I have tried to find any Charlotte who married a Henry Thomas Sen but the ages just do not come together.
So in conclusion, I still need to identify the maiden name of the ‘Charlotte’ who married Henry Thomas Sen giving birth to Henry Thomas Jnr in 1848, as this it would appear to be the ancestral line I need to trace.
Thanks once again for your help. Any further thoughts would be much appreciated.
Regards
Pegwill