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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Jason Jase on Saturday 27 August 22 16:36 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I am trying to uncover more information on my biological great grandfather and what he did in WW1
I spent 8 months trying to find out which was the exact Arthur George Barr who I am related to (there was a few in England at that time) luckily I figured it out.
The short story is a fair size Air force base was established near a small town of Ridgewell, Essex my Great grandmother
Daisy Lily Cooper met a
Arthur George Barr born 11 Sep 1896 Chatham, Kent, England and died Jan 1983 Beverley, Humberside, England. Daisy and Arthur married 13 May 1916 They were both young adults and Daisy became pregnant with my Grandmother Pamela Ruth Barr born 24 Sep 1917 Ridgewell, Essex, England. (supposedly Pam was born during a bombing??? does anyone know how to find out if that is true???
Anyway Arthur was never involved with being Pam's father and supposedly was still involved with the war effort. Pam Was raised by Daisy's parents as Daisy was a Nurse somewhere?
I don't know what George did during the war or why he abandoned his family??? I was wondering if he was stationed elsewhere? went off to fight? or what he did during the war? After WW1 ended he went back to living in his home town and never going back to his wife. The marriage was nullified in court in 1928 without him attending and Daisy and Arthur both got remarried to different spouses.
His name and military information was on my Grandmothers birth cert.
Arthur George Barr
1917 • Ridgewell, Essex, England
1st A.M. No 2226 Royal Flying corp 73rd Squadron Mechanical Engineer
I tried a couple times to search military / Air force stuff but come up with nothing
Can anyone help with this?
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he was in France, from 30/9/1915 to 15/12/1915,
sent home wounded or sick.
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73 Squadron does not seem to be connected with Ridgewell in Essex in WW1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._73_Squadron_RAF
Tony
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His service docs are on FindMyPast.
He enlisted 18 - 11-14, was a fitter/turner, Served in the RFC before transferring to the RAF 1-4-1918. Served in 132 Sqn and 6 DD (no idea what that was), then last operational posting was at School of Aviation. Transferred to the RAF Depot 29-12-1918 and discharged to the reserve 25-1-1919. Was hospitalised with flu, sent back to UK from France, 19-11-1915 to 31-12-1915. Returned to unit 1 RAS St Omer in France There's a physical description of him. His marriage details which I assume wou already have.He received the 14-15 star and the victory medal. He served 20 days detention 25-9-18 to 14-1918 for disobeying an order from an NCO. Address on discharge given as 61 Ludlow Road Southampton. There's also a crossed out entry for 50 Commercial Rd Southampton.
The National Archives also have his divorce details (J 77/2497/7804) but again I'm guessing you already have those.
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Thank you for that.
Andy what was the Physical description of him ?
my grandmother Died in 2007 and as far as I know see didn't ever meet him?
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73 Squadron does not seem to be connected with Ridgewell in Essex in WW1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._73_Squadron_RAF
I don't think Ridgewell was an RFC airfield during WW1. It was a USAF base in WW2, and the website dedicated to it makes no mention of anything pre-WW2. http://www.rafcamuseum.co.uk/pages/history.html
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Thank you for that.
Andy what was the Physical description of him ?
5' 7½"
34" chest
Brown Hair
Hazel Eyes
Fresh complexion
Born Chatham, Kent
Civiliam Occupation Turner/Fitter
His wife Daisy was recorded as his next of kin living at 50 Commercial Road Southampton (later crossed out)
CofE
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Well I guess the ridgewell thing was why I was having a hard time finding him.
I am still wondering where Daisy and George crossed paths
George would of been in active duty I assume
it appears they married in Alverstoke, Hampshire, England 1916
Daisy was a nurse so maybe when George came back from France in 1915?
Daisy was also living in Kensington before that
Are any of those places close to where George was posted.
Daisy did go back to Ridgewell to give birth to their Daughter though.
Sorry I'm not from England and and am only semi-familiar with the towns / counties in relation to each other
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He was admitted to North Evington Hospital, Leicester 15-12-1915 and discharged on leave 22-12-15 so if it was a hospital romance, it was pretty quick!
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North Evington War Hospital is Leicester General today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester_General_Hospital
"The War Hospital was staffed by both Royal Army Medical Corps and civilian doctors, locally recruited nurses and VADs, as well as some of the original civilian staff."
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I assume this is where they must of met.
Maybe a one night stand type of situation and they got married just because she was pregnant. That would make sense why he didn't seem to have much attachment to Daisy.
Daisy also moved back to Ridgewell as Arthur was still involved with the military and moving around. I wonder if he even knew where Daisy moved?
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Assuming he was living in Kent before he enlisted, there wouldn't have been much chance for them to have met before the war, and he went in France on 30 September 1915 having completed his basic training, so really the time in hospital, or possibly where ever he spent his week's leave after leaving the hospital were the only opportunities for them to have met in England. However she might have been nursing in France. He seems to have been based at or near St Omer (the headquarters of the RFC in France) and there were British civilian nurses in a number of Army and St John Ambulance hospitals around that area, so that is also a possibility. Might just be worth checking with the Museum of the Order of St John to see if she was serving with them. https://museumstjohn.org.uk/research/overview/
However the Alvestoke wedding and her address in Southampton both suggest that's where she was living and working before they met. Possibly he spent his 7 days leave in or around Southampton which is probably from where he would have embarked to return France after his leave ended.
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Your grandmother's date of birth suggests she was conceived around January
1916, which again makes that 7 days leave the more likely period for the one night stand.
Added
Whoops, I'm a whole year out. Of course she would have been conceived in Jan 1917 long after they were married, so this wasn't a shot gun marriage (unless she was pregnant with an earlier child we don't know about. However the dates he was in UK certainly tie in with the marriage.
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it would be interesting to find out where they met. I think we have made some good progress here
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It would also be interesting to get some more detail on his earlier service in the RFC. The record I quoted previously was his RAF docs, which included some earlier information - I assume for the sake of continuity, eg his medical history - but little about his Army service 1914 -1917. Presumably his Army docs are among the ones which haven't survived, or alternatively they were shredded by the RAF once they had extracted what they needed. Perhaps that's why his medal card hasn't turned up since the details of his 14-15 star and the victory medal are in his RAF docs. Incidentally I didn't mention it earlier but he completed his reserve commitment on 17/11/1922.
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If he didn't leave the Forces until 1922 then his Records were Never Destroyed in the Blitz
Those Records Blitzed were in a Storeroom of Ex Service Personnel who were either Never Fit for Service or Dead or Discharged pre 1919
So his Records are still in Glasgow awaiting for you to apply for.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
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Alamo, It was only the Army documents which were partially destroyed by fire following the bombing in WW2. The RAF records were held elsewhere and hence, as far as I am aware, they all survived. As mentioned the Army documentation for Arthur George Barr only covered the period to 1918, so they would have been transferred to the Public Record Office (predecessor of TNA), not have been retained by the Army Department for pension purposes, as was the case with the burnt documents. AG Barr transferred to the RAF Reserve on 25 Jan 1919, so had no reckonable service after that date.
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This from a TNA Research Guide:
RAF service records (1918-1939)
Look in the RAF service records for RFC airmen who served after April 1918. Search the RAF service records (AIR 79) on findmypast (charges apply).
British Army personnel records (1914-1920)
The service records of RFC airman who died or were discharged before the foundation of the RAF were kept with the British Army personnel records.
My added emphasis. Barr was discharged from the Army 31 Mar 1918 prior to his transfer to the RAF on 1 Apr 1918.
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:)
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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. It would be helpful if you could tell us the source of the two images.
Added: OK I can see the photos are referring to the complete inventory held in WO31/21769, which I have a copy of, incidentally. But I'm still not clear why that is relevant to AG Barr.
Added for clarity on 29 August:This seemingly detached posting was referring to 2 images in the previous posting, now removed.
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I thank you all for your help on this it is a mystery. He was a very complicated person to place on my tree. it took me 8 months to prove with Documents that this George Arthur Barr was my Great grandfather. 4 or 5 months later I proved it with a DNA match to his mothers Brother's Descendants.
All I knew of his military career was what was written on my grandmothers birth cert.