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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Waterford => Topic started by: Artiechokes on Thursday 20 October 22 09:28 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am hoping to find out more on Catherine Whelan who was 37 when she died on March 19, 1933 and is buried in St Otteran’s cemetery Waterford. She was married to Nicholas Whelan (died 1961) and may have had brothers Tom and Jack and a sister Maggie.
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Welcome to RootsChat.
Do you know when Catherine & Nicholas married? Have you found Catherine's birth registration and marriage? Was she born and married in Ireland?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Have you searched for births of the siblings?
Can you find Catherine on 1901 & 1911 census?
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Catherine Whelan died 19 Mar.1933 was age 42 not 37 when she died-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1933/04864/4314974.pdf
I can't see a marriage for a Nicholas Whelan to a Catherine in Waterford registration district from 1900-1933. Do you know her maiden name?
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In the title of this post you say her maiden name is Ryan. Is this the right marriage?
Nicholas Phelan m. Catherine Ryan 1 January 1917 in Waterford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09739/5534263.pdf
Hmm... not sure this is the right marriage now as there is a Margaret Whelan born to a Nicholas Whelan, storeman (?), and his wife, Catherine Ryan, in 1920. They are living at Doyle Street in Waterford.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01198/1498648.pdf
Queenie :)
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Missed that in the title, Queenie :-[
Daughter Margaret born 1920-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01198/1498648.pdf
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In the title of this post you say her maiden name is Ryan. Is this the right marriage?
Nicholas Phelan m. Catherine Ryan 1 January 1917 in Waterford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09739/5534263.pdf
Queenie :)
I just found that as well.
Nicholas was a soldier. His address was the same street (no number) as Ellen Whelan who married at the same church 2 days later. They had different fathers.
Catherine was 24, a spinster, occupation box blank; father John Ryan, occupation labourer.
Birth registration of a child, Margaret 1920, Waterford Number 2 District. Address Hoyle St. ?
2 other Whelan birth registrations on Irish Genealogy ie. with mother's maiden surname Ryan in Waterford which may be theirs but no images to see.
The only Nicholas Whelan marriage I found to a bride named Catherine was to Catherine Finlan 1915, Dublin.
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I wonder whether this is the right family?
They are living on Morgan Street in Waterford in 1901.
Ryan John 59 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
Ryan Mary 37 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Ryan Margaret 11 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Ryan Catherine 9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Ryan Christopher 6 Male Son Roman Catholic
Ryan Thomas 4 Male Son Roman Catholic
Ryan Aileen 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
This one stood out to me as the Catherine would be around the right age (born c.1892 - she was listed as born c.1891 on her death certificate) and she has siblings called Margaret and Tom. There is no Jack listed here but the father was called John, so there may have been an older son called John/Jack.
Queenie :)
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Nicholas Phelan m. Catherine Ryan 1 January 1917 in Waterford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09739/5534263.pdf
Hmm... not sure this is the right marriage now as there is a Margaret Whelan born to a Nicholas Whelan, storeman (?), and his wife, Catherine Ryan, in 1920. They are living at Doyle Street in Waterford.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01198/1498648.pdf
I can't find any Phelan birth registrations in Ireland 1917-21 with mother's maiden surname Ryan. Although as Nicholas was a soldier, we can't be sure if he survived the war to have children with Catherine or that any children were born in Ireland.
Artichokes might be able to tell us if the Phelan marriage and/or the birth of Margaret are the correct family.
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OP mentioned that Nicholas Whelan died in 1961 but I was unable to find a death in Waterford area.
There was an Edward Wheland & Mary Ryan having children in Waterford area at the same time so could be easy to confuse families if not checking actual registrations.
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OP mentioned that Nicholas Whelan died in 1961 but I was unable to find a death in Waterford area.
There was an Edward Wheland & Mary Ryan having children in Waterford area at the same time so could be easy to confuse families if not checking actual registrations.
There was a Nicholas Whelan age 71, a widower, who died in hospital in County Dublin in 1961. Balrothery Superintendent's Registration District, Swords Registration District. His occupation was storekeeper (if I read it correctly).
There were a couple of elderly Nicholas Phelans who died early 1960s in other places.
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Thanks for the interest everyone. Nicholas Whelan was indeed a soldier, a private in the 8th Royal Irish Hussars - the military record is sparse and annotated with military abbreviations. He was born in 1890. Margaret was his eldest daughter. I will try those census records. The St Otteran cemetery index seemed pretty clear Catherine was 37, which does sound about right. I will have to sit down and map all this out!
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Thanks for the interest everyone. Nicholas Whelan was indeed a soldier, a private in the 8th Royal Irish Hussars - the military record is sparse and annotated with military abbreviations. He was born in 1890. Margaret was his eldest daughter. I will try those census records. The St Otteran cemetery index seemed pretty clear Catherine was 37, which does sound about right. I will have to sit down and map all this out!
Was the death certificate posted earlier for the correct Catherine? If so, have you found her in 1901 and 1911 census to see approx. year of birth then search for her birth registration?
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Thanks for the interest everyone. Nicholas Whelan was indeed a soldier, a private in the 8th Royal Irish Hussars - the military record is sparse and annotated with military abbreviations.
RootsChat has a military board. Experts on it can explain military jargon. Was he a soldier before 1914 or only during the Great War? The military board has a section for WW1.
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In the title of this post you say her maiden name is Ryan. Is this the right marriage?
Nicholas Phelan m. Catherine Ryan 1 January 1917 in Waterford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09739/5534263.pdf
Nicholas was a soldier. His address was the same street (no number) as Ellen Whelan who married at the same church 2 days later. They had different fathers.
The wedding was actually 1st February. The month was incorrectly transcribed on the index. I've submitted a correction.
Artiechokes, do you have definite information about Nicholas, birth, marriage, life before marriage?
After some fossicking among Whelans & Phelans in Waterford, I'm inclined to think that Nicholas Phelan and Ellen Whelan whose weddings are on the same page and who both gave the address May Lane were related.
Ellen's father was Michael.
Birth registration Waterford 1898 Ellen Whelan. Parents Michael & Anastasia (Dawson). Address Chapel Lane.
Marriage Waterford 1897 Michael Whelan & Anastasia Dawson. Michael's father was James, a labourer.
Birth registration Waterford 1889 Nicholas Whelan. Parents James & Margaret (Regan). Address Chapel Lane.
1901 census May Lane, Waterford
Michael Whelan age 35 born Waterford City + wife Anastasia (transcribed Anne Stasia) + Ellen.
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1901 census May Lane, Waterford
Michael Whelan age 35 born Waterford City + wife Anastasia (transcribed Anne Stasia) + Ellen.
Younger siblings of Ellen.
Patrick born 1902, Mary born 1904, William born 1911.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rvp/
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1901 census May Lane, Waterford
Michael Whelan age 35 born Waterford City + wife Anastasia (transcribed Anne Stasia) + Ellen.
Younger siblings of Ellen.
Patrick born 1902, Mary born 1904, William born 1911.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rvp/
The family seems to have moved lodgings frequently during that decade.
They were Phelan on 1911 census. Neither Michael nor Anastasia could write. Michael couldn't read. Address Balteen Lane in Waterford Number 3 Urban.
Probable deaths of Michael and Anastasia, abode of each was May Lane. Both died in hospitals:
1913 Michael Phelan
1932 Anastatia Whelan, widow
It seems they were known/recorded as both Phelan and Whelan.
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They are living on Morgan Street in Waterford in 1901.
Ryan John 59 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
Ryan Mary 37 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Ryan Margaret 11 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Ryan Catherine 9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Ryan Christopher 6 Male Son Roman Catholic
Ryan Thomas 4 Male Son Roman Catholic
Ryan Aileen 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
1911 census - Ryan (Catherine as Kate) ?
House 65 in Yellow Road Lower (Waterford No. 3 Urban, Waterford).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Yellow_Road_Lower/674105/
Catherine's address on her 1917 marriage record was Lo Yellow Road.
Her elder sister Margaret and younger brothers Christopher and Thomas still there.
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This is amazing and I’m very grateful. It will take a while to process and map. Fortunately another member of the family is researching so we can compare notes. Thanks again.