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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: peakoverload on Monday 24 October 22 22:30 BST (UK)
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I have an old cabinet photo that has a name and date written on the back of it.
It looks like it says:
Miss E D'abil 1899
However D'abil doesn't seem to be recognised surname. Dabil is but it doesn't seems to be of Indian origin which doesn't match the person in the photo.
Anyone else have an idea what the name is?
Excuse the crude photos but my scanner has packed up
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Miss E Jabil?
Cas
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Which County & Country is Church Rd, Upper Norwood in.
The more details given the more useful it is.
Annie
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The surname looks like TABIL to me although I may be wrong.
I've allowed for broken English.
Annie
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Church Road, Upper Norwood is in South London and is split across the 4 boroughs of Croydon, Lambeth, Bromley and Southwark. It is perhaps better known as Crystal Palace (although officially Crystal Palace is just a part of Upper Norwood and locals wouldn't refer to it as Crystal Palace)
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Thank you for the extra info.
Have you looked for someone in the area on previous & later census' with variants of the surname?
Annie
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Thank you for the extra info.
Have you looked for someone in the area on previous & later census' with variants of the surname?
Annie
Yeah but I'm drawing a blank on every possible variation of the name. I suppose it's entirely possible that this person isn't British and was simply visiting the Crystal Palace after it moved from Hyde Park and decided to get their photograph taken. The bottom end of Church Road literally took you to the Crystal Palace building.
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Miss E D'abil 1899
However D'abil doesn't seem to be recognised surname. Dabil is but it doesn't seems to be of Indian origin which doesn't match the person in the photo.
Sorry, I'm not understanding...
Are you saying the lady in the photo is Indian.
Can you tell us what info. you've found which doesn't fit your photo?
Can you also give us some background info. on the person you think/hope it is?
Do you have info. on BMD for your person & how the surname was written on different docs?
Annie
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I was saying that the surname Dabil has Indian origin but the person in the photo isn't Indian, hence I don't think Dabil is the correct name.
I have no idea who the person in the photo is. I actually bought the photo because I'm researching the history of Upper Norwood and was interested in the photographer. However, I am also researching families I come across in my research and hence was trying to find out who the person in the photo was.
All the info I have therefore is on the photo itself.
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Looks like Tabil, Sabil or Jabil to me.
There are Tabils in Warwickshire
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Possibly Dalziel.
I think I read somewhere that the z is silent?
Possibly written as it was heard and the z omitted?
There seem to be a couple of families of that name in the area.
The woman looks at least into her 30's to me.
Sue
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Trying to think outside the box - could it be Dobie or Davie?
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TALMIE / TALLIE ?
I don't think it's a "b" in the middle, but I could well be wrong!
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Could the first letter be a T, like others have mentioned? If you try to recreate the letter, starting with a downward stroke, to me, it flows naturally and appears to be a fancy T. Perhaps it has that weird little “wing” at the end to balance out the letter?
Added: the writer added little flourishes to all of the capital letters.
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I thought if I could find W. J. Wright’s writing if we were lucky it might include enough letters that we could figure out the lady’s name.
Unfortunately (providing that I found the correct man in 1911), the writing on the census form doesn’t appear to be a match to the writing on the photograph. Providing his details, in case anyone wants to view the image:
William James Wright, Photographer. Born c1864, Isle of Wight.
1911 North Croyden, Surrey census
I also checked a couple of family trees (Anc*try), hoping for more samples of his writing, but his signature on his childrens’ marriage certificates appears to match the 1911 census. There were no images in those family tree “galleries” (I was hoping to see a couple of his photographs with the same style of writing as the writing found in this post). ;)
So much for my thinking outside the box. :-\
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I'm inclined to go for Tabil. Attached is the name in a different shade.
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Could it be spelled phonetically, and thus a slight misspelling?
The 1901 census has an Emmeline De Bil, age 17, in Temperley Road, Balham (RG13/475 fo83 p39) - that's not a million miles from Upper Norwood.
The De Bil family consists of parents and two daughters, all of whom are French, and the father is a language teacher. It made me wonder - might the photographer have visited schools and set up a temporary studio to capture all the pupils?
If I'm right and this is Emmeline she'd be about 15-16, which I think may be possible.
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Thank you all for your suggestions and research, it is very much appreciated. There's certainly some leads to follow up on. I imagine that the name was written on the card by one of W. J. Wrights assistants and not a family member (a family member is less likely to use Miss), but what I'm not sure of is whether this photo was owned by the sitter or whether it was kept by W.J. Wright as a reference for it further prints were required. If it was owned by the sitter than I would think it's more likely that the name would have been corrected if misspelt. Definitely further research is needed as I'm very intrigued to find out more about this person.
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Could it be spelled phonetically, and thus a slight misspelling?
The 1901 census has an Emmeline De Bil, age 17, in Temperley Road, Balham (RG13/475 fo83 p39) - that's not a million miles from Upper Norwood.
If I'm right and this is Emmeline she'd be about 15-16, which I think may be possible.
arthurk, I think this looks a very good possibility & the subject of the photo is very fresh faced, quite young looking.
Annie
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I've been giving this a bit more thought. First, a reputable studio would probably make sure they spelled people's names correctly, so if this is Emmeline De Bil, I doubt they would have made the mistake. But if it was an error at the studio, the family might have decided to give this one away to one of their lesser acquaintances rather than alter it or keep it themselves.
Second, the family wouldn't have written this themselves - apart from the misspelling, they would almost certainly have written Emmeline rather than "Miss E.", and being French, it would very likely have been "Mlle. E." anyway.
Third, I can't see the family in the 1911 census, so they may have returned to France. In that case, if the photo was in their possession, how did it turn up in England (I assume)?
What I think is most likely is that Emmeline gave the photo to someone she knew, and at that stage there was nothing written on the back. Later, this person wrote the name on the back, but they didn't know and/or didn't check how to spell De Bil. In fact, if they were doing this from memory some years after the event, they might even have got the year wrong.
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I would just like to add, that this is a definitely a late 1890s photo. The sleeves are typical of the era.
It has to be remembered that these were also collected and swapped with family and friends, which was a popular craze at the time.
Carol