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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Thursday 22 December 22 23:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
I was wondering whether there is anyone who has details of past landlords (or landladies) at The Crooked Billet pub in Saxton. I am led to understand that a Tom or Thomas LAWN was such a person in the late 19thC.
Any help with this would be much appreciated...
Keith
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A couple of earlier notices:
A Thomas CLARKSON died at the Crooked Billet Saxton, "the house of his daughter" on 30 Nov 1847.
A marriage notice for Ann WEBSTER (to Samuel WARRINGTON), daughter of "Mrs Frances WEBSTER, landlady of the Crooked Billet Inn, Saxton" in May 1848.
Will keep looking ...
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In 1891 There was a Lawn Family at the pub but no Tom/Thomas.
Edward 46 Licensed victualler and joiner
Ann 40
Children
William J 17 Joiner apprentice
Henry 14 ag lab
Bertha 12
Minnie 8
Mabel 5
Dorothy 2
Bryan 1
Added
Just found Thomas. He was there in 1861
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Maddys52 and Fisherman,
Thanks so much for getting on my case so swiftly!
That 1891 Census page looks just the ticket. Maybe I've been fed slightly erroneous info about the landlord's forename, or maybe he was known more commonly by another one. As was often the case.
In July 2021 I had a very nice pint and a meal in this pub, but not with this particular question to ask then...
Keith
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Thomas 34 Farmer and publican
Jane 29 publicans wife
Charlotte 3
William 2
Henry 0
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Fisherman,
Posts crossed in the ether. How very exciting, looks as though the pub was run by the LAWN family for a considerable time...
Keith
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Hi Keith
Charlotte Married a Job Bailey and they were running the pub in 1881
Also there
Joseph Thomas Bailey son 0
Alice Lawn Sister in law Dom Serv 14
Thomas Lawn Brother in law 12
Plus two lodgers
Added: Charlotte and Job married 4Q 1878 (9c 1065)
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Not quite sure what to make of this - in this item it says the Crooked Billet Saxton was pulled down approx 2 years previously (so 1882).
Saturday, Dec. 20, 1884
Publication: Leeds Mercury
" L. N. and Q." refers to "Local Notes and Queries", the heading of the page.
Oh, I can't attach the image here. It is about a slip of paper, a butcher's bill, which was found in a crack of a large beam at the inn.
Modified to add:
Actually reading the article again it says a new building has replaced the old one.
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Gosh, Maddys52, that's a bit offputting! Maybe they just made alterations or renovations/refurbishments at that time, and perhaps that was when the old document was found.
I've had a look at the 1871 Census, and Thomas LAWN was still running The Crooked Billet then...
Keith
Ah, another crossed post, thanks so much for that new (to me) info about a new pub being built on the site.
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Another humerous mention, though when it occurred is not stated:
"WHERE "THE FLOOD" IS REMEMBERED
The Vicar of Barmby Moor tells the story of how he entered that curious old tavern in the parish of Saxton called "The Crooked Billet" and asked the landlady if she had any idea when it was built.
"Before the flood, sir," was the startling reply.
"What flood?"
"Noah's flood I believe sir," she persisted
Inquiry showed, however, that the catastrophe referred to was the "Big Wind," which occurred in January 1839 and ravaged the district."
Friday, Jan. 21, 1927
Publication: Evening Telegraph
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Gosh, Maddys52, that's a bit offputting! Maybe they just made alterations or renovations/refurbishments at that time, and perhaps that was when the old document was found.
I've had a look at the 1871 Census, and Thomas LAWN was still running The Crooked Billet then...
Keith
Ah, another crossed post, thanks so much for that new (to me) info about a new pub being built on the site.
Happy to send you the item if you're interested in a bit of history of butchers' prices. ;)
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Haha! Very nice, Maddys52. Maybe the damp that had got into the place in 1839 eventually led to it being pulled down and rebuilt 43 or so years later. I'm glad they kept the name (was that Warwick The Kingmaker's emblem during the Wars of the Roses?), and didn't call it something much less evocative such as The New Inn,
Keith
...I'll PM you with my email address then, and you can send me that document. Very kind of you!
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No problem. :)
There are also advertisements for the winding up of the estate of Thomas LAWN, farmer of Saxton in March 1865 (died 16 Dec 1864).
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Maddys52,
Have now PM-ed you. You've certainly unearthed so much on the LAWN family's association with The Crooked Billet. There's quite a steep grassy bank at the back of the pub where their beer garden is today. I dread to imagine the floodwaters whooshing over that and down to the pub in January1839 in the Big Wind...
Keith
Added: Though now I have googled The Big Wind, on January 6th 1839, and that seems to refer to a catastrophic weather feature that happened in Ireland. So maybe that story about it happening in this part of the West Riding was an apocryphal one, dreamed up by that landlady. Or she might have experienced it earlier in Ireland herself. And simply forgot where she was when chatting to the Vicar of Barmby Moor...
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"The Big Wind" indeed did affect Ireland, but also the north of England. Have had a look at some newspapers from 1839, and there are many reports of the "hurricane" including at York on 7 January 1839. Lots of damage reported in quite a wide area, though I can't see any particular reference to flooding, and not at Saxton or any of the towns nearby mentioned in particular. But I'm sure it was an event that locals came to measure time by. :)
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How weird seeing this mentioned here, I've been there many times.
Will have a look and see if I can find anything about the flood.
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The earliest mention I've been able to find in the newspapers of anything called the Crooked Billet, in the right location (there's another one in Hull, and seemingly for a short time at least, there was one in Leeds, but in a different part of Leeds), is from May 1838.
It's about some robbers and it describes their journey.
"he first heard of them by two jobbers in a gig going to York; he found at Tadcaster bar that they had been let through about 4 o clock; they went forward to Towton, thence to Lotherton lane ends, and from thence to Crooked billets, to Garforth bridge and to Swillington bar."
The way it's phrased I can't decide if its a pub by then, or just a place. It's odd.
What's frustrating, is that the road it's on seems to not have a name. It is now known as the B1217, but despite having found out some history of that road, I can't find out what it was called before. I feel like if we could find what the road was known as, we'd maybe find more clues and information.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1217
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It shows up on this 1845 map
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102344917 (bottom right hand side)
The road above is called "Mill Race"
Possibly easier to see on this side by side map
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16.8&lat=53.82561&lon=-1.29634&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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Lovely to see another dialogue developing on here between Stanwix England and Maddys52. And even more info re The Crooked Billet revealed. And now having read the newspaper cutting that Maddys52 has very kindly PM-ed me, about that butcher's bill that was found in a beam in the pub, the date on it appears to be 1785. So presumably that takes us back even further into the history of this pub.
All fascinating stuff. And that Big Blow in January 1839 must have been mighty BIG and devastating. No weather forecast on the TV in those days, of course, so the North of England had no way of knowing what was sweeping their way from Ireland....
Keith
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...Maddys52's post 17 shows the Lead Chapel, which I remember walking to across the field right opposite the pub, (a mere few hundred yards away) between grazing sheep. Not at all sure whether any of the other Lead Hall Estate buildings were still there, though.
However, when inside the medieval chapel I did wonder whether in 1461, before the dreadful Battle of Towton just up the road, any soldiers came in here to kneel in prayer. Or whether afterwards some survivors did, in thanks for their safe deliverance.
But I don't suppose there was ale for sale an arrow's flight away at The Crooket Billet then...
Keith