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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: shawnfbrown on Sunday 15 January 23 01:56 GMT (UK)
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Evan Jones' naturalization record in US states birthplace was Pontrydfenligaid, Wales and his birthdate 1867. His wife's naturalization records state same. Family letters state he followed his brother David to Canada and US. His death record lists Thomas Jones and Mary Jones as parents. I have not been able to trace his parents or where Evan Jones lived prior to his marriage to Elizabeth Hughes in Pontypridd, Glamorganshire in 1891. Family letters say Evan was a twin, twin died at some point and that his father Thomas Jones died before Evan and his twin were born, leaving Mary a widower. I need help identifying county to search census data--Cardiganshire? or County of Dyfed at some point? or just help tracing Evan in general pre marriage. Thanks for any suggestions.
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There is an Evan Jones registered Tregaron Wales March Quarter 1867 mother's maiden name Jones
Vol.11B page 79
There is also a William Jones registered the same quarter vol and page numbers
ADDED
The village was in Cardiganshire at the time and the registration district Tregaron
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Do you know if he had any other siblings besides David.
It might help narrow down the family, Jones is a very common name
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Likely family from Cardiganshire to Ystradyfodwg
Living Queen St, Ystradyfodwg - there is a Queen Street Ton pentre, very near the village of Ystrad. Valley map on previous thread.
1891 - Piece: 4423 Folio: 122 Page number: 7
Mary Jones 68 Head Tregaron
John Jones 40 Son Lledrod, Cardiganshire, Wales
Evan Jones 24 Son "
Jane Jones 32 Daughter "
Ann Perry 28 Daughter " (Parry)
Richard Parry 27 Son-in-law
John Williams 23 Boarder
David Edwards 45 Boarder
David Jones 48 Boarder
Thomas Perry 4 Nephew (looks like Parry, this is son of Ann born 1890 in further census)
Possible Marriage 1890 for Ann Jones to Richard Parry - Pontypridd reg district
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Lledrod
Pontrydfenligaid within area see map
Cas
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1871 - Piece: 5568 Folio: 14 Page number: 21
Upper Lledrod, Cardiganshire
Mary Jones 48, Head, widow Caron, Cardiganshire
Jane Jones 13 Daughter
Ann Jones 10 Daughter
David Jones 7 Son
Evan Jones 4 Son
Rachel Evans 74
Cas
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1861 Lledrod Upper
Piece: 4201 Folio: 13 Page number: 20
Thomas Jones 33 Head Caron, Cardiganshire, Wales
Mary Jones 34 Wife Caron
Elizabeth Jones 12 Daughter
John Jones 10 Son
Thomas Jones 5 Son
Jane Jones 3 Daughter
Ann Jones 8mths Daughter
Possible - There is a online marriage for Thomas & Mary Jones 1849 Tregaron
Thomas Jones
Marriage Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 10 Oct 1849
Marriage Place: Tregaron, Cardiganshire, Wales
Father: Thomas Jones, Farmer
Spouse: Mary Jones, full age, father John Jones, lab
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Tregaron (also called Caron)
Cas
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Possible death, abode Lledrod.
Caron burials Cardiganshire
Thomas Jones
Death Age: 40
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: 1828
Death Date: abt 1868
Burial Date: 3 Feb 1868
Burial Place: Tregaron, Cardiganshire, Wales
Page number: 124
Cas
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There is an Evan Jones registered Tregaron Wales March Quarter 1867 mother's maiden name Jones
Vol.11B page 79
There is also a William Jones registered the same quarter vol and page numbers
ADDED
The village was in Cardiganshire at the time and the registration district Tregaron
Registered March Q 1867 would fit with birthdate 15th January 1867 for Evan given on naturalisation.
Also a twin brother William registered. Address on BC for Evan would confirm place/parents. PDF on GRO around £7.00 if you are not aware.
Likely death for William
JONES, WILLIAM age 0
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in TREGARON Volume 11B Page 59
Tree by other researchers of family
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MZJQ-ZQD
Does his marriage cert have any addresses/witness names that could link to posted census?
Cas
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Thanks to everyone for their help. :) I was having difficulty narrowing down the registry district/county. The only sibling I'm aware of for Evan Jones was brother David, whom family letters say preceded Evan in emigration to Canada and US. Not sure if David is older/younger. The marriage cert for Evan Jones and Elizabeth Hughes was in Pontypridd, Glamorganshire and neither witness was a Jones and no address given for witnesses. Both Evan and Elizabeth were residing in the Pentre/Ystrad area of Rhondda. Evan's father Thomas Jones is listed as deceased at time of Evan's marriage, 1891.
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Thank you for the census data. The 1891 census Queen Street Ystradyfodwg is consistent with Evan Jones' marriage residence 1 August 1891 living at 26 Queen Street, Pentre.
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Thank you for the census data. The 1891 census Queen Street Ystradyfodwg is consistent with Evan Jones' marriage residence 1 August 1891 living at 26 Queen Street, Pentre.
Good link to show you have correct family. Could not find a better match in Cardiganshire with what details you gave.
No sign of mother Mary or Evan after 1891, The Parry family moved to the Mountain Ash area, Abercynon by 1901.
Cas
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The villages of Pentre & Ton Pentre are all one area, the only thing that separates them is they are linked by a small bridge. But they are classed as separate areas today.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Ystradyfodwg/TonPentre
Queen Street is on map in Ton Pentre
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Evan and wife emigrated about 1895 to Canada/US, but I'll keep looking for what happened to mother Mary.
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What is best way to search for death of Mary Jones, mother of Evan? She was age 68 in 1891 Census of Middle Hamlet, Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan?
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Pontypridd reg district. Would check GRO deaths, go up by 2 years +/- between census year. FreeBMD you have a wider year range.
Difficult with a common surname
Cas
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thanks--I'm trying to be efficient with my time. I appreciate your help.
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The years you wish to check can be verified in Treorchy Library via email, they are very helpful they hold interment records for all the main local cemeteries.
Likely buried in Treorchy or Penrhys as nearest cems to Pentre. You have her age and address. If you need an email address for the library assistants can PM
There is a possible 1895 age 71, not checked through completely
Cas
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Also not sure if you read my post on previous thread, I listed all family history libraries in area and maybe some points of interest during your visit to Wales.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=869184.msg7401044#msg7401044
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Possible death, abode Lledrod.
Caron burials Cardiganshire
Thomas Jones
Death Age: 40
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: 1828
Death Date: abt 1868
Burial Date: 3 Feb 1868
Burial Place: Tregaron, Cardiganshire, Wales
Page number: 124
Cas
This Thomas Jones was a lawyer per his death cert, so I'm eliminating him since all else points to my Thomas Jones ancestor being a coalminer.
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The years you wish to check can be verified in Treorchy Library via email, they are very helpful they hold interment records for all the main local cemeteries.
Likely buried in Treorchy or Penrhys as nearest cems to Pentre. You have her age and address. If you need an email address for the library assistants can PM
There is a possible 1895 age 71, not checked through completely
Cas
Yes, I will email the library-they responded to me quickly on the Hughes side of the Evan Jones family. Thanks for the tip.
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Also not sure if you read my post on previous thread, I listed all family history libraries in area and maybe some points of interest during your visit to Wales.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=869184.msg7401044#msg7401044
Yes, I saw that information and I'm going to look at it for my trip. I appreciate the suggestions since it will be my first time to Wales in 40 years!
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Thanks to all the suggestions here, I received from the GRO birth records for twin Evan and William Jones, sons of Thomas Jones, railway laborer, and Mary Jones, formerly Jones, both born15 Jan 1867, which is consistent with date of birth in Evans' later records in naturalization and death records. Parents Thomas and Mary Jones were residing Blaensarum (sp?) Upper Lledrod, Tregaron, Cardiganshire at date of birth. Then I got the death record from GRO for William Jones, who died 10 days later, 25 Jan 1867, same parents, same address. Family letters said the father Thomas Jones died before they were born. I found on Findmypast, a parish register of burial in Parish of Caron, Caridgan, 3 Feb 1867 for Thomas Jones, age 40, same address of Blaensarman(sp?) Upper Lledrod. I believe this is good evidence for death and that this Thomas Jones is the correct father of Evan and William.
When I searched the same parish register burial pages for burial of William Jones, Thomas' son who died January 1867, I found none.
Would an infant not be buried from the parish of Upper Lledrod? Any suggestions why a burial record for William is not found in the parish records?
The parish register says burial for Thomas Jones was performed by J Hughes, Vicar. Any suggestions how to identify the church/chapel this Vicar belonged to or which cemetery Thomas Jones and son William Jones were laid to rest in?
I've tried searching maps of Upper Lledrod to find Blaensarum (sp?) but have not had luck yet. Any suggestions on a map which would identify roads?
Thanks for any help you can give.
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Please help identify cursive handwriting on this death record for Thomas Jones, date 29 Jan 1868, Blaensam Upper Lledrod. I thought at first it was Lawyer, but maybe it is Sawyer? I believe this Thomas Jones is father of Evan and William Jones, born same address, same father 15 Jan 1867. birth gave occupation of Thos Jones as railway laborer. How many lawyers could there be in Upper Lledrod 1868, if any? Probably a dumb question--probably lawyer was not even an occupation but solicitor? My American bias getting in the way.
Thanks.
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Looks to me as Blaensarn and Sawyer as occupation. It was the same death as I posted he died 1868.
1851 he is a miller same as marriage cert.
As for burial it just has Caron burials. Maybe someone local to area can help
Cas
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Added it could be a placename of house/abode not an actual area of upper Lledrod?
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This looks to be the person that was present at death same address 1871 Ynysbont
Name: Winifred Richard (Gwenifred Richards)
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Richard
Gender: Female
Where born: Caron, Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Upper Lledrod
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Info on death is only as good as informant knowledge
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Thanks--yes I got the death record for Thos Jones from your input, then decided it was incorrect due my "lawyer" mistake. I will keep checking on burial info. Thanks for tip re: Winifred Richards. You mention 1851--is that an 1851 census for Thos and Mary Jones in Lledrod? I haven't found that yet.
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1851 - Piece: 2487, Folio: 27, Page Number: 5
Swynffynon Mill, Lledron Upper
Thomas Jones 23 miller
Mary Jones 25 wife
Elizabeth Jones 1 dau
Elizabeth Jones 21 house servant
Thomas Jones 23 mill servant
Other Jones could be family members
Cas
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Wondering likelihood of Thomas Jones, 1851 census and 1849 marriage to MAry Jones, listed as miller, to be later in 1861 an agricultural laborer or a sawyer on his death in 1868? Maybe my stereotype again, but I though mill owner with employee would be more prosperous? Just wondering out loud if this is same person? Thank you.
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Info on death is only as good as informant knowledge.
Maybe as his family grew milling did not support them. 1 employee (possibly a family member) was not a large affair. Also some where leased not owned. People did change occupation.
1851 seem to fit as same birthplace Caron, Elizabeth born Lledron, but recheck census I may have missed another more suitable
Cas
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THanks-will recheck but I agree other factors except occupation seem correct. Not sure if you saw the marriage record original b/w Thos and Mary 1849, but I'm having trouble reading their place of residence. Swy y Tynon? Cywr Hwn?
Thanks again.
Shawn
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His - Swyn y ffynon same as the mill address
Hers - Esgair Mo**? Esgair Maen?
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Lledrod/ParishMap
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Think this maybe the church for marriage and burials, stand to be corrected if wrong
https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/300009909-church-of-saint-caron-tregaron#.Y8m6h9-nw1I
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The mill in the 1851 census is called Swyddffynon Mill (Usual spelling of ffynnon has a double n)
If you go back to the previous page before the entry, at the bottom pf the page, there is a Margaret Jones widow, aged 64, stocking knitter and retired miller born Caron- could be Thomas's mother.
1858 in The Welshman there is a notice of birth of a daughter -On the 28th inst., the wife of Mr. Thomas Jones, Swydd- ffynnon, of a daughter. https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4349867/4349870/22/
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Thank you Sam. I'll check the census pages as you suggested. The newspaper article is interesting. If my census research is correct, there was a daughter Jane born 1858 at the time of this article. I"ve not searched those newspapers before. Can you give me tip on how to search The Welshman for other news re: Thos Jones family--maybe I can find Thos and Mary Jones' marriage and other births?
Shawn
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Shawn the newspapers can be a bit hit and miss and with common names can only be narrowed down by using advanced search. This allows you to add names of places or town or farms or occupations or events. You can also narrow by say looking at the type of article such as family notices, or to certain regions such as South Wales and then to specific newspapers and dates (specific, decade, year etc). The only thing is that the average person would only be mentioned if there was an unusual or sudden death of some sort (inquest, murder accident...) or if they were in court or marriage etc...Otherwise only notable people made it into the paper
- chapel ministers especially or families that had some role in he community or the chapel or church etc There is of course the problem in that the articles could well be in Welsh and also that the spelling used for some welsh place names or farms varies and would not be picked up unless the spelling matches. I've been out all day so
I'll have look at the thread tomorrow and have a closer look at the area you are describing since the one address spelling could be a bit out, they were not always, spelled correctly or were anglicised.
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Thank you--no rush! Family notices I'm interested in are birth of Evan and William Jones, twins, on about 15 Jan 1867; death of Wm Jones, 25 Jan 1857; death of their father Thomas Jones 29 Jan 1868; identity of Vicar J Hughes, who performed burial service of Thomas Jones 3 Feb 1868 and the church/chapel; information about the mill SWydffynon per 1851 census.
Would Upper Lledrod be considered West Wales if I did an advanced search?
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Hi Shawn, nothing so far of any relevance in newspapers relating to any of the people you listed, other than the vicar's name mentioned around 1867/8. As you say William's burial not listed in Tregaron parish register (or any other in Cardigan). Evan not baptised either. There was a baptism in 1849 of an Elizabeth Swyddfynnon mill, daughter of Thomas and Mary. I wonder if parents did not manage to get William baptised before he died and whether this meant he was buried in a plot for unbaptised children. Alternatively he could have been buried in a chapel. Have not identified Blaen sarnau on any map yet and Swydd ffynnon mill dates back to 1600's.
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The tithe maps show tha the family were not the occupiers at Swydd ffynnon mill in 1839 https://places.library.wales/viewer/4571202#?cv=45&h=1154&c=&m=&s=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F4571202%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=1278%2C1510%2C1800%2C3221
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Tithe Map to go with the apportionment link on my last post. Mill and house is property numbered 1154 https://places.library.wales/viewer/4576901#?cv=&h=1154&c=&m=&s=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F4576901%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=29923%2C10060%2C304%2C544
Forgot to say that Lledrod /Tregaron would be classed as West, or Mid or if that is not an option and otherwise South if these nor an option so basically not North
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Swyddffynnon mill on coflein site: https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/24785/
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How thw mill probably once looked https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-mill-at-swyddffynnon-welsh-primitive-fl-1830-1853/nQGEpUWRv6mmpg?hl=en
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I looked at the location of the properties listed before and following Blaen Sarn on the 1861 census - this is likely to be Blaen Sarnau, named on the death register.
The property preceeding it is Ynysybont and the two that follow it are Ynys Berfed and Penybryn. These 3 properties are marked on the map,but there is no sign of a Blane Sarn.
It is quite feasible that Blan Sarn could in fact be the Pensarn that lies in the fork of the road - between the two letter L's in Lledrod slightly to the right above the other properties.
Blaen can mean at the front of at the head of
Pen means head or head of or top of
See map https://maps.nls.uk/view/101608177#zoom=4&lat=4576&lon=4118&layers=BT
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Would agree with Sam the informant on death of Thomas was Gwenifred Richards living Ynysybont.
The Richards family in 1861 - Piece: 420, Folio: 9, Page number: 11. Next page (page 12) at Blaensarn is David Jones & family. Thomas & Mary must have moved there post census between 1861 - 1867. In 1861 they lived next census page to Swynffynon mill.
The vicar that buried Thomas was John Hughes, vicar of Caron 1855 - 1870.
https://archives.library.wales/index.php/rev-john-hughes-vicar-of-caron
Surely this must be St Caron, the church is old enough and has burial grounds, the church is still active today.
Maybe email and ask the clergy to confirm if it is the parish church. The marriage of Thomas & Mary states the parish church of Caron. Burial register states Caron burials.
https://www.churchinwales.org.uk/en/structure/church/3600/
Regarding the address for Mary at marriage there is a Esgair Maen in the parish of Caron
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01s2a/
Change to NLS, click map boundaries & names and zoom in, it is to the left of Ynysybont
Cas
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1911 census son Thomas born circa 1855 gives birthplace as Swynffynon living Ystrad Meurig.
Possible marriage to Jane Evans in 1878 Tregaron reg district? Couple together in Llerod 1881 with child Margaret.
1891 Piece: 4562, Folio: 5, Page number: 2
Lledrod Upper
Thomas Jones 35 Head, farmer, Lledrod
Jane Jones 40 Wife, Lledrod
Margaret Jones 10 Daughter Caron Lower
Mary Jane Jones 8 Daughter Glamorgan, Pentre, Ystrad (likely Ystradyfodwg)
Anne Jones 6 Daughter "
Elizabeth Jones 3 Daughter "
Evan Evans Jones 1 Son Lledrod
Cannot locate Mary & family in 1881 in Cardigan or Glamorgan, but the birth of Thomas children above in Ystradyfodwg would suggest family in same area between census. Thomas did return to Cardiganshire and remain.
Did the family letters originate from Cardiganshire, Glamorganshire or in USA, just curiosity?
Cas
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The Thomas Jones family Cas found are living at Hafodygofaint in 1901 & 1911 and there seemed to be 4 ecclesiastic students boarding with them in 1911 (Myfyriwr Clerigawl).
The daughter Catherine also married in 1908 and several family members, including her father and sister (M.J Jones) are named in the report in the paper: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3867627/3867630/25/
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:) Thanks Sam and Cas for your research and suggestions. I've been out of town in the mountains for a week or so, offline, so I'll spend some time getting immersed again in this research and probably come up with more questions! Thanks again.
Shawn