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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Macushla on Sunday 29 January 23 00:46 GMT (UK)
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Good morning from Adelaide, South Australia.
I'm hoping that someone will help me, please.
I'm trying to find the maiden name and possibly birth details of Caroline WATSON.
In the 1881 England & Wales Census - Caroline Watson, she is found in Bradford, (p. 155), living as a widow with sons Ernest, aged 6, and Harry, aged 4. Both boys listed as born in Bradford, Caroline born in Birstall. Her age is given as 26 at the time, so she would be born around 1855.
Caroline, my great-grandmother, married my great-grandfather, Rev. Andrew Fuller MILLS, in Wales in around 1884.
I'd like to find her maiden name possibly the full name of her WATSON husband, along with the birth details of her boys, if possible. I believe that her maiden name may be RHODES, but I don't have any actual citation for that; I tend to be a sporadic in my genealogy research and I feel like every time I come back to it, I have forgotten what I knew before! I have tried searching birth records through A*cestry, but getting hopelessly lost.
Any help, or direction, would be much appreciated.
Thanks so much,
M.
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marriage on FreeBMD
Marriages December 1/4 1884
Andrew Fuller Mills
Caroline Watson
registration district Knighton (Knighton spans the boundaries of the counties of Radnorshire, Shropshire and Herefordshire) 11b page 235
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These births would fit
The birth certificate / or just the index on GRO of your grandparent would confirm the maiden name
As RHODES
These are the boys
WATSON, HARRY RHODES
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in BRADFORD YORKSHIRE Volume 09B Page 202
WATSON, ERNEST WILLIAM RHODES
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in BRADFORD YORKSHIRE Volume 09B Page 196
Here is a Mills
MILLS, MAUD MYRA RHODES
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 807
Free BMD has only one likely marriage in 1873
https://www.freebmd.org.uk
William Henry Watson
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Possible death
Deaths March 1/4 1876
William Henry Watson age 28 registration district Bradford Y. vol 9b page 127
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Presume you know all about Andrew Fuller Mills but there is a long piece about his clerical career
02 July 1897 - Carmarthen Weekly Reporter - Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Not a single mention of his family!
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Possible death
Deaths March 1/4 1876
William Henry Watson age 28 registration district Bradford Y. vol 9b page 127
I thought so too, but no mention of wife in death notice
“Watson, February 24th. William Henry of 65 Ashgrove, manufacturer , eldest son of William Watson, Draper, age 28”
Burial Undercliffe cemetery
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Watson-Rhodes
August 6th (1873) at the parish church, Birstal,
William Henry, Eldest son of Councillor William Watson, of
Bradford, to Caroline, youngest daughter of the late John Rhodes Esq, Birstal.
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Thank you both so very much, mckha489 and crisane, that's a lot for me to work with.
I'm just about to read the piece on the Reverend; I do have a bit of info. on him but this looks good! Funny how family is never mentioned; he went on to be Mayor, too and I know from stories my grandfather told my dad, it was something that involved the whole family. My grandfather didn't like living such a public life; it's one of the reasons that he moved to Australia.
mckha489, may I please ask where you found the marriage information?
Thank you both again, so much. This gives me a lot to do on this quiet Sunday afternoon.
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I found it.
16 August 1873 - Dewsbury Chronicle and West Riding Advertiser -
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mckha489, may I please ask where you found the marriage information?
09 August 1873 - Bradford Observer - Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Just found another one with some other info
16 August 1873 - Dewsbury Chronicle and West Riding Advertiser -
"On the 6th Inst., by license, at the Parish Church Birstall, by the Rev J. Kemp, Mr William Henry Watson of Bradford, to Miss Caroline, daughter of the late Mr John Rhodes of Rectory House, near Church-lane, Birstall
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It's a look up board Crisane. You can't upload images
entering John Rhodes Rectory House into FindMyPast newspapers is productive
Do you want to do this yourself? or Shall I post?
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Thanks both again, very much.
I will try to look it up myself, thanks, and let you know how I go!
Very exciting. I don't think any of my family knows anything about the Rhodes / Watson side at all.
M.
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Well they look interesting!
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Crisane, how did you manage to post the clips ?
I thought look up boards didn’t allow, and I cannot see the usual choices
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It's a look up board Crisane. You can't upload images
entering John Rhodes Rectory House into FindMyPast newspapers is productive
Do you want to do this yourself? or Shall I post?
Ah, thanks for the tip. Different forums - different rules :) I have removed it.
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No, it’s not a rule exactly, ( as far as I know) I just thought you actually couldn’t do it. And yet you managed somehow :)
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I downloaded the snip of the article to my pictures app then uploaded it to postimages.org (which then gives a choice of different url's for it depending on where you want to post it. I chose and copied the url for 'Hotlink to forums.'
Above the reply box on Rootschat underneath the Italics icon is the 'insert hyperlink' box and when you click on it you get two boxes with URL in them. I then pasted in the url I had copied from postimages.org between the two bracketed urls and it worked. I am sure there is a much easier way of posting photos etc on here but couldn't find it when I needed it.
There is an 'Insert image' icon to the left of the 'insert hyperlink' icon but I haven't figured it out yet. That may be the one that is used when members need photos worked on.
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:-). That was complicated!
Yes usually you just click on 'Attachments and other options" and a box comes up for searching your computer for the image and you just add it. Easy. But not for the Lookup Boards.
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The image of Caroline's marriage to William Henry Watson in 1873 is online on Anc* Her age however is given as 21=c1852. Her father John Rhodes, occupation Land surveyor. Father was deceased by 1873 as per newspaper article.
Believe this to be her in 1861, note her brother Robert's occupation.
Robert Rhodes was a witness at Carolines marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7ND-YQQ
Possible Birth
RHODES, CAROLINE mmn HARTLEY
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 22 Page 72
Family in 1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SP9Z-GL8
1841 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQPG-638
RHODES, WILLCOCK HARTLEY
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in THE DEWSBURY UNION Volume 22 Page 26
John
added,
John Rhodes married Nancy Hartley 13th April 1826 in Batley.
John's father Israel Rhodes married Sarah Wilcock on the 6th April 1789. Sarah appears with the family on 1841 census
Warning, do NOT follow any trees on Ancestry, they are incorrect.
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Possible death
Deaths March 1/4 1876
William Henry Watson age 28 registration district Bradford Y. vol 9b page 127
I thought so too, but no mention of wife in death notice
“Watson, February 24th. William Henry of 65 Ashgrove, manufacturer , eldest son of William Watson, Draper, age 28”
Burial Undercliffe cemetery
Bradford FHS transcript index of the Undercliffe MIs has one that matches, with William Henry Watson who died 24 Feb 1876 aged 28, plus Ernest William Watson who died 27 Aug 1933 aged 60.
(Edited: changed 'transcript' to 'index')
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Deleted
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Thank you all so very much.
I am supposed to be getting ready for work, so just a quick but necessary thank you for now, will be back tonight.
M.
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The bio on the Rev is so useful, thank you so much. Since it shows where he was pastor, it will help so much in finding other records.
I am still muddling around the edges; my research is quite erratic and I haven't been able to kick the habit of jumping from one family or individual to the other and then losing track of what I've found and where I've found it!
I am likely to be back ... thanks again.
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Thanks to the posters above, we have nailed down the marriage of Caroline RHODES and William Henry WATSON, and the births of their two sons, Ernest (Ernest William?) and Harry WATSON.
Now, I'm trying to find them in the 1891 census.
I have Caroline remarried, to my great-grandfather, Andrew Fuller MILLS, in 1884, and in the 1891 census in Carmarthenshire, Wales, with him and their young children, Maude and John, but no sign of William and Henry?
I've tried searching the census for each of the boys, but I'm not convinced of anything I've found.
It looks like the boys remained in Yorkshire, but would that by typical for the time? As their father had died, and mother re-married and moved to Wales, would it not be usual for them to re-locate with her?
I've been hoping to find an obituary for Caroline, but without luck. Her gravestone does not mention her children, and probate for her will seems to indicate one of her daughters as executor. Perhaps I should request a copy of her will to see if the boys or their children (if any) are mentioned?
Many thanks in advance for suggestions or direction.
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There is this on Fold3 that maybe him
Name: Harry Watson
Enlistment Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1876
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorks
Enlistment Year: 1898
Regiment: The Northd Fashiers
Regimental Number: W.F/3262
Attestation Paper: Yes
Think it maybe The Northumberland Fusiliers?
Cas
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Many thanks, Cas, that does look good for my Harry!
I did not know about Fold3, either, so something else to look into.
M.
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1921 census free index. View record for details, it is pay to view.
Possible? There are others in household but don't know if related.
Harry Watson born 1876 Bradford, Yorkshire, England living Swansea, Glamorganshire
Harry, Annie Louisa, Winifred Maude and 1 other are on this record
Cas
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Here's a little snippet about Harry's WWI enlistment
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3585175/3585177/17/
ADDED
And his return after 4 years service
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3679443/3679444/9/
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And from August 1904
Mr Henry Watson—a stepson of the Rev A. Fuller Mills—was engineer on the "Hip-sang" which was captured and sunk by the Russians. According to the latest information. Mr Watson has reached Chi-fu (a neutral port), and has therefore reached safety after taking part in rather a striking piece of history
Added: Henry's account of events
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3377124/3377128/114/
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Step sister Myra's wedding - https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4358745/4358755/66/ Neither are listed in the bridal party but both appear in the list of presents
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And some news of Ernest in 1915: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3585405/3585408/25/
In 1901 he appears to be in the local asylum?
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There is this on Fold3 that maybe him
Name: Harry Watson
Enlistment Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1876
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorks
Enlistment Year: 1898
Regiment: The Northd Fashiers
Regimental Number: W.F/3262
Attestation Paper: Yes
Think it maybe The Northumberland Fusiliers?
Cas
Hi Cas, I couldn't help myself and got the free trial for Fold3. Looking at the record, it's not my Harry. Next of kin shows Sarah WATSON as mother, not Caroline. Will keep looking, including your suggestion for the census. Thank you so much for your help.
And some news of Ernest in 1915: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3585405/3585408/25/
In 1901 he appears to be in the local asylum?
Thank you so much, Mabel, I found this interesting - then I saw on the record Cas pointed me to that there is reference to an 'asylum school' for the Military, so I need to look into that.
Thank you everyone, very much, I am still chasing up the other leads; the newspaper articles are fantastic, thank you all.
I will look through a few more Harries while I have my free subscription!
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The chap I was referring to appears in the joint counties asylum in Carmarthen, as Ernest Wm Watson, 26, single, occupation agent for ?? farm. No place of birth given. Speaks English (but not Welsh). Lunatic.
Your Ernest is definitely in the area in 1902 as he is noted being awarded his St John Ambulance certs at Golden Grove, as mentioned in the later WWI piece
There's a few sightings of an Ernest W Watson in and around Narbeth in following years - winning prizes for essays in various local eisteddfodau
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Many, many thanks, Mabel.
I was so fixed on the idea that the boys had stayed in Yorkshire, I had blinkered myself.
Very interesting. Looking through the census record for the asylum, it's amazing how many patients there were.
This has set me off on a new tangent - thank you!
If anyone reading this is good at deciphering handwriting, please help, as I am reading occupation as 'bicycle farmer' and I can't unsee it!