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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: Chippy27 on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:12 GMT (UK)
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My 2x great grandfather James Joespeh Kavanagh Born 1845 Gorey Wexford. I would love to know if he had any siblings and his parents names etc?. Know very little
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Yes.
But is there an issue or question?
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Yes.
But is there an issue or question?
Hi Wexflyer I.ve updated my original post would just like to find more background on him and his family
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Do you have his marriage details with his father’s name?
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Ok, so...
How do you know he is from Gorey?
Best to start by telling us what you do know about him.
Also, Gorey town or parish, or just the general area?
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Please see the comments here re continual lack of info provided in your posts
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.msg7421103#msg7421103
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Please see the comments here re continual lack of info provided in your posts
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.msg7421103#msg7421103
Interesting.
Makes me wonder.... Is all that is behind this just one of those miserable Ancestry "hints"?
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Info in all Chippy27 posts is sparse to say the least ::) And not always accurate as latest replies show here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.new#new
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How do you know he is from Gorey?
I think this comes from a military record for a James KAVANAGH who served from 1869 to 1891. I doubt that your James would be a policeman in Lancashire on all census records as well as being a long serving soldier in the Surrey Regiment.
Debra :)
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Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH. However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.
James J Kavanagh
1867
65048
General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44
https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531
Debra :)
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Just adding that I don't know where the middle name 'Joseph' has come from. He is always just James as far as I can see.
Debra :)
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So, in summary, right now we know of nothing to link this this James Kavanagh to Gorey?
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Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH. However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.
James J Kavanagh
1867
65048
General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44
https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531
Debra :)
Wait - in previous post you said he was a Peeler in Lancashire, but now he is in the RIC?
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If I search for a James Kavanagh, son of James, born 1845 +- 1 year, I see 6 results from the Irish Catholic parish records. None in Gorey.
- Two Co. Wexford,
- Two Co. Kilkenny,
- One Carlow,
- One Dublin.
However, we are always looking "under the streetlamps" (many records are missing), so there were other such baptisms that went unrecorded.
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What is a Peeler?
James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire. John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.
Debra :)
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What is a Peeler?
James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire. John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.
Debra :)
A Peeler is a member of HM's Constabulary. ;)
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How do you know he is from Gorey?
I think this comes from a military record for a James KAVANAGH who served from 1869 to 1891. I doubt that your James would be a policeman in Lancashire on all census records as well as being a long serving soldier in the Surrey Regiment.
Debra :)
Hi Debra Yes he was police constable in Liverpool 1881 I know he's from Gorey as this is what he has stated on census. Thank you for your help x
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If I search for a James Kavanagh, son of James, born 1845 +- 1 year, I see 6 results from the Irish Catholic parish records. None in Gorey.
- Two Co. Wexford,
- Two Co. Kilkenny,
- One Carlow,
- One Dublin.
However, we are always looking "under the streetlamps" (many records are missing), so there were other such baptisms that went unrecorded.
Thank you. This is why I asked use for help. I struggle with the Irish records. I know loads got destroyed. X
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Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH. However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.
James J Kavanagh
1867
65048
General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44
https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531
Debra :)
Wait - in the previous post, you said he was a Peeler in Lancashire, but now he is in the RIC?
No, he's always been a policeman or police constable that may be misspelt. That most like is him I will take a look. The name Kavanagh is ::) is like Smith here hard work. Thank god he has a middle name...x
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Thank you. This is why I asked use for help. I struggle with the Irish records. I know loads got destroyed. X
If he really was from Gorey, then his birth may have just missed the start of the parish records on 26th May 1845.
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A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?
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I have just come back to this and am puzzled re the information re James being a police officer etc.
Where is that information before Chippy’s confirmation?
I think I have now found him in 1881 with wife Margaret and children at 1881 3706/13/20. Is that him?
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Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf
On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.
A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
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Chippy, Can you post the names and years of birth of the children? Would actually be a big help.
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Going by the family tree I found on ancestry, the first two children were
James 1869, and
Elizabeth ?
If these where named for the paternal grandparents, then a candidate set of parents for James can be identified, from births of probable siblings of his in Gorey, viz:
James Kavanagh, and
Elizabeth Sheehan
They had multiple children in Gorey parish, as follows
Michael 1845
Elizabeth 1848
Margaret 1851
Anne 1854
There may be more - I only searched 1845-1855.
But note Michael 1845.
Address is Gorey - not sure how that fits with father James being a farmer as per 1868 marriage rgistration.
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I have just been searching that family in Catholic registers too :)
1881
3706
Folio: 13
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
James Kavanagh 35 yrs
Margaret Kavanagh 32 yrs
Henry Joseph =do- 11 yrs
Elizabeth -do- 10 yrs
Lawrence M. -do 4 yrs
Richard Wm. -do- 2 yrs
Fredrick Chs. -do- 3 months
Census page shows name as Henry Joseph but there is a ‘correction’ with no notes to James Joseph :-\
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I have just been searching that family in Catholic registers too :)
1881
3706
Folio: 13
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
James Kavanagh 35 yrs
Margaret Kavanagh 32 yrs
Henry Joseph =do- 11 yrs
Elizabeth -do- 10 yrs
Lawrence M. -do 4 yrs
Richard Wm. -do- 2 yrs
Fredrick Chs. -do- 3 months
Census page shows name as Henry Joseph but there is a ‘correction’ with no notes to James Joseph :-\
In the 1871 census there are just two children - James and Elizabeth.
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Re the previous message
Birth
James Joseph Kavannagh 1869, Liverpool mmn Lombard
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I think this child might have died as she is not on the census
Margaret Ann baptised October 1874
Godmother Elizabeth Shehan
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I have just come back to this and am puzzled re the information re James being a police officer etc.
Where is that information before Chippy’s confirmation?
I think I have now found him in 1881 with wife Margaret and children at 1881 3706/13/20. Is that him?
Sorry there are more details including the marriage on the other thread as posted by CaroleW on this thread (reply #7). I was forgetting that there were two going.
Debra :)
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Last evening, I did try to search the various threads but got lost ;)
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Chippy, Can you post the names and years of birth of the children? Would actually be a big help.
[/quote
Yes, children, I will post all children born in Liverpool this I do know.
James J b 1869
Elizabeth b 1870
William R b 1872
Margaret A b 1874
Lawrence m b 1877 my gt grandf
Richard W b 1878
Frederick C b 1881
Georgina b 1883
Henry b 1884
Thomas A b 1889
10 children all born Liverpool
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With the extra information from Heywood that a Sheehan was godmother to one of the Kavanagh children in England, I think we can be reasonably confident in the identification of
James Kavanagh and Elizabeth Sheehan of the town of Gorey as the parents of James Kavanagh junior of Lancashire, the policeman.
However, James junior was seemingly not born in 1845, as a brother Michael was (first page of baptism register!). James was presumably born prior to the start of the registers (prior to 1845).
Griffith's valuation, printed 1853, shows two James Kavanagh householders in the town of Gorey,
- One was in No 10. Pot Lane, renting a 10 shilling per annum house from the Earl of Courtown.
Next door in No. 11 was a Laurence Kavanagh.
- The second was in No. 9 Spout Lane, renting a 15 shilling house from a Michael Byrne (ultimately from the Rams of Ramsfort).
While one can't tell directly which James was the father of James junior, the presence of Laurence Kavanagh as a nextdoor neighbor to the James of Pot Lane, suggests that this is the correct family. Laurence is a potential uncle, as James junior named a son Laurence.
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From a comment in a post on the Wexford Co. Council website, it seems that Pot Lane, Gorey may be todays Clonattin Road. See
https://consult.wexfordcoco.ie/en/consultation/proposed-material-alterations-draft-wexford-county-development-plan-2022-%E2%80%93-2028/chapter/volume-5-record-protected-structures (https://consult.wexfordcoco.ie/en/consultation/proposed-material-alterations-draft-wexford-county-development-plan-2022-%E2%80%93-2028/chapter/volume-5-record-protected-structures)
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A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?
Oh, that's a good shout I will do. I have found him 1881 he did get stabbed but survived. This tale was past down but the newspaper confirmed it.
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Last evening, I did try to search the various threads but got lost ;)
Haha thank you 😊
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What is a Peeler?
James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire. John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.
Debra :)
A Peeler is a member of HM's Constabulary. ;)
Oh 😂 I thought you meant potatoe peeler
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A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?
Oh, that's a good shout I will do. I have found him 1881 he did get stabbed but survived. This tale was past down but the newspaper confirmed it.
This might be a better place to start looking for records
https://www.liverpoolcitypolice.co.uk/home-2/contact-us/
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Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf
On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.
A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
No but will do a bit of digging on this ana one
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Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf
On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.
A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
No but will do a bit of digging on this ana one
No need to bother - a sister.
In the list of children of James senior and Elizabeth Sheehan that I posted was Anne Kavanagh, born 1854.
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Oh could send me this list of James and Elizabeth sheenan children?.
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Oh could send me this list of James and Elizabeth sheenan children?.
Already did - Reply # 24, this thread.
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I looked previously for Ann Kavanagh in the Liverpool area and the only one I have found so far who is a possible match is :
1881 3689/5/3
Kirkby
Ann Cavannah, 28 yrs, Domestic Servant, b Wexford
Added
There is a death registered in West Derby district in 1888
Ann Kavanagh 33 yrs
Burial at Ford Cemetery with an address of 18 Carnarvon Street but difficult to say if these are the same people and also your family.
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Going by the family tree I found on ancestry, the first two children were
James 1869, and
Elizabeth ?
If these where named for the paternal grandparents, then a candidate set of parents for James can be identified, from births of probable siblings of his in Gorey, viz:
James Kavanagh, and
Elizabeth Sheehan
They had multiple children in Gorey parish, as follows
Michael 1845
Elizabeth 1848
Margaret 1851
Anne 1854
There may be more - I only searched 1845-1855.
But note Michael 1845.
Address is Gorey - not sure how that fits with father James being a farmer as per 1868 marriage rgistration.
I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married
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I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married
Not exactly They were married in the registry office in Cork City.
Have you followed the links for the 1868 marriage registration - full details on that.
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I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married
Not exactly They were married in the registry office in Cork City.
Have you followed the links for the 1868 marriage registration - full details on that.
Ok 👍 but there residence was Dripsey? X
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I looked previously for Ann Kavanagh in the Liverpool area and the only one I have found so far who is a possible match is :
1881 3689/5/3
Kirkby
Ann Cavannah, 28 yrs, Domestic Servant, b Wexford
Added
There is a death registered in West Derby district in 1888
Ann Kavanagh 33 yrs
Burial at Ford Cemetery with an address of 18 Carnarvon Street but difficult to say if these are the same people and also your family.
I know this tricky I know Kirkby its outskirts of the city. Ford is a Catholic burial ground. I may look for her on 1881 census electrical rolls too
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Ok 👍 but there residence was Dripsey? X
Margaret Lombard living in Dripsey in the civil parish of Inniscarra.
Here's Dripsey village-
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6501909#map=14/51.9126/-8.7348