RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: Chippy27 on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:12 GMT (UK)
My 2x great grandfather James Joespeh Kavanagh Born 1845 Gorey Wexford. I would love to know if he had any siblings and his parents names etc?. Know very little
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:19 GMT (UK)
Yes.
But is there an issue or question?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:21 GMT (UK)
Yes.
But is there an issue or question?

Hi Wexflyer I.ve updated my original post would just like to find more background on him and his family
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:47 GMT (UK)
Do you have his marriage details with his father’s name?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:47 GMT (UK)
Ok, so...
How do you know he is from Gorey?
Best to start by telling us what you do know about him.
Also, Gorey town or parish, or just the general area?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 07 March 23 20:48 GMT (UK)
Please see the comments here re continual lack of info provided in your posts

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.msg7421103#msg7421103
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 07 March 23 21:07 GMT (UK)
Please see the comments here re continual lack of info provided in your posts

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.msg7421103#msg7421103

Interesting.

Makes me wonder.... Is all that is behind this just one of those miserable Ancestry "hints"?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 07 March 23 22:35 GMT (UK)
Info in all Chippy27 posts is sparse to say the least  ::)  And not always accurate as latest replies show here

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=870967.new#new
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 08 March 23 02:26 GMT (UK)

How do you know he is from Gorey?


I think this comes from a military record for a James KAVANAGH who served from 1869 to 1891.  I doubt that your James would be a policeman in Lancashire on all census records as well as being a long serving soldier in the Surrey Regiment.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 08 March 23 02:43 GMT (UK)
Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH.  However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.

James J Kavanagh
1867
65048

General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44

https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531

Debra  :)

Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 08 March 23 02:47 GMT (UK)
Just adding that I don't know where the middle name 'Joseph' has come from.  He is always just James as far as I can see.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 03:07 GMT (UK)
So, in summary, right now we know of nothing to link this this James Kavanagh to Gorey?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 03:08 GMT (UK)
Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH.  However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.

James J Kavanagh
1867
65048

General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44

https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531

Debra  :)

Wait - in previous post you said he was a Peeler in Lancashire, but now he is in the RIC?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 03:14 GMT (UK)
If I search for a James Kavanagh, son of James, born 1845 +- 1 year, I see 6 results from the Irish Catholic parish records. None in Gorey.
- Two Co. Wexford,
- Two Co. Kilkenny,
- One Carlow,
- One Dublin.

However, we are always looking "under the streetlamps" (many records are missing), so there were other such baptisms that went unrecorded.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 08 March 23 03:17 GMT (UK)
What is a Peeler?

James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire.  John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 03:35 GMT (UK)
What is a Peeler?

James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire.  John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.

Debra  :)

A Peeler is a member of HM's Constabulary.  ;)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 07:39 GMT (UK)

How do you know he is from Gorey?


I think this comes from a military record for a James KAVANAGH who served from 1869 to 1891.  I doubt that your James would be a policeman in Lancashire on all census records as well as being a long serving soldier in the Surrey Regiment.

Debra  :)

Hi Debra Yes he was police constable in Liverpool 1881 I know he's from Gorey as this is what he has stated on census. Thank you for your help x
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 07:41 GMT (UK)
If I search for a James Kavanagh, son of James, born 1845 +- 1 year, I see 6 results from the Irish Catholic parish records. None in Gorey.
- Two Co. Wexford,
- Two Co. Kilkenny,
- One Carlow,
- One Dublin.

However, we are always looking "under the streetlamps" (many records are missing), so there were other such baptisms that went unrecorded.


Thank you. This is why I asked use for help. I struggle with the Irish records. I know loads got destroyed. X
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 07:44 GMT (UK)
Findmypast has the Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records and as expected there are plenty named James KAVANAGH.  However there is only one James J. so it might be worth having a look.

James J Kavanagh
1867
65048

General Register - Index, Vol 2
HO 184/44

https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/retrieve_text.php?text_contentid=531

Debra  :)

Wait - in the previous post, you said he was a Peeler in Lancashire, but now he is in the RIC?

No, he's always been a policeman or police constable that may be misspelt. That most like is him I will take a look. The name Kavanagh is  ::) is like Smith here hard work. Thank god he has a middle name...x
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 07:57 GMT (UK)

Thank you. This is why I asked use for help. I struggle with the Irish records. I know loads got destroyed. X

If he really was from Gorey, then his birth may have just missed the start of the parish records on 26th May 1845.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:02 GMT (UK)
A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:13 GMT (UK)
I have just come back to this and am puzzled re the information re James being a police officer etc.
Where is that information before Chippy’s confirmation?

I think I have now found him in 1881 with wife Margaret and children at 1881  3706/13/20. Is that him?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:26 GMT (UK)
Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf

On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.

A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:28 GMT (UK)
Chippy, Can you post the names and years of birth of the children? Would actually be a big help.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:48 GMT (UK)
Going by the family tree I found on ancestry, the first two children were
James 1869, and
Elizabeth ?

If these where named for the paternal grandparents, then a candidate set of parents for James can be identified, from births of probable siblings of his in Gorey, viz:
James Kavanagh, and
Elizabeth Sheehan

They had multiple children in Gorey parish, as follows
Michael 1845
Elizabeth 1848
Margaret 1851
Anne 1854

There may be more - I only searched 1845-1855.
But note Michael 1845.
Address is Gorey - not sure how that fits with father James being a farmer as per 1868 marriage rgistration.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 08:52 GMT (UK)
I have just been searching that family in Catholic registers too  :)

1881
3706
Folio:   13
Page Number:   20
Household Members:   
Name   Age
James Kavanagh 35 yrs
Margaret Kavanagh 32 yrs
Henry Joseph =do- 11 yrs
Elizabeth -do- 10 yrs
Lawrence M. -do  4 yrs
Richard Wm. -do- 2 yrs
Fredrick Chs. -do-  3 months

Census page shows name as Henry Joseph but there is a ‘correction’ with no notes to James Joseph  :-\
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 09:02 GMT (UK)
I have just been searching that family in Catholic registers too  :)

1881
3706
Folio:   13
Page Number:   20
Household Members:   
Name   Age
James Kavanagh 35 yrs
Margaret Kavanagh 32 yrs
Henry Joseph =do- 11 yrs
Elizabeth -do- 10 yrs
Lawrence M. -do  4 yrs
Richard Wm. -do- 2 yrs
Fredrick Chs. -do-  3 months

Census page shows name as Henry Joseph but there is a ‘correction’ with no notes to James Joseph  :-\

In the 1871 census there are just two children - James and Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 09:03 GMT (UK)
Re the previous message
Birth
James Joseph Kavannagh 1869, Liverpool mmn Lombard
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 09:11 GMT (UK)
I think this child might have died as she is not on the census

Margaret Ann baptised October 1874
Godmother Elizabeth Shehan
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 08 March 23 09:36 GMT (UK)
I have just come back to this and am puzzled re the information re James being a police officer etc.
Where is that information before Chippy’s confirmation?

I think I have now found him in 1881 with wife Margaret and children at 1881  3706/13/20. Is that him?

Sorry there are more details including the marriage on the other thread as posted by CaroleW on this thread (reply #7).  I was forgetting that there were two going.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 09:51 GMT (UK)
Last evening, I did try to search the various threads but got lost  ;)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 14:16 GMT (UK)
Chippy, Can you post the names and years of birth of the children? Would actually be a big help.
[/quote

Yes, children, I will post all children born in Liverpool this I do know.
James J b 1869
Elizabeth b 1870
William R b 1872
Margaret A b 1874
Lawrence m b 1877 my gt grandf
Richard W b 1878
Frederick C b 1881
Georgina b 1883
Henry b 1884
Thomas A b 1889

10 children all born Liverpool
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 18:57 GMT (UK)
With the extra information from Heywood that a Sheehan was godmother to one of the Kavanagh children in England, I think we can be reasonably confident in the identification of
James Kavanagh and Elizabeth Sheehan of the town of Gorey as the parents of James Kavanagh junior of Lancashire, the policeman.

However, James junior was seemingly not born in 1845, as a brother Michael was (first page of baptism register!). James was presumably born prior to the start of the registers (prior to 1845).

Griffith's valuation, printed 1853, shows two James Kavanagh householders in the town of Gorey,
 - One was in No 10. Pot Lane, renting a 10 shilling per annum house from the Earl of Courtown.
Next door in No. 11 was a Laurence Kavanagh.
- The second was in No. 9 Spout Lane, renting a 15 shilling house from a Michael Byrne (ultimately from the Rams of Ramsfort).

While one can't tell directly which James was the father of James junior, the presence of Laurence Kavanagh as a nextdoor neighbor to the James of Pot Lane, suggests that this is the correct family. Laurence is a potential uncle, as James junior named a son Laurence.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 19:58 GMT (UK)
From a comment in a post on the Wexford Co. Council website, it seems that Pot Lane, Gorey may be todays Clonattin Road. See
https://consult.wexfordcoco.ie/en/consultation/proposed-material-alterations-draft-wexford-county-development-plan-2022-%E2%80%93-2028/chapter/volume-5-record-protected-structures (https://consult.wexfordcoco.ie/en/consultation/proposed-material-alterations-draft-wexford-county-development-plan-2022-%E2%80%93-2028/chapter/volume-5-record-protected-structures)
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 21:02 GMT (UK)
A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?

Oh, that's a good shout I will do. I have found him 1881 he did get stabbed but survived. This tale was past down but the newspaper confirmed it.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 21:02 GMT (UK)
Last evening, I did try to search the various threads but got lost  ;)

Haha thank you 😊
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 21:09 GMT (UK)
What is a Peeler?

James was a policeman when he married in Ireland and was still a policeman when they moved to Lancashire.  John Grenham's site has a sample of a service register and it includes marriage details so it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one.

Debra  :)

A Peeler is a member of HM's Constabulary.  ;)

Oh 😂 I thought you meant potatoe peeler
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 21:12 GMT (UK)
A suggestion - why not contact the Lancashire Constabulary? They presumably have records?

Oh, that's a good shout I will do. I have found him 1881 he did get stabbed but survived. This tale was past down but the newspaper confirmed it.

This might be a better place to start looking for records

https://www.liverpoolcitypolice.co.uk/home-2/contact-us/
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 21:44 GMT (UK)
Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf

On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.

A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
No but will do a bit of digging on this ana one
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 22:03 GMT (UK)
Apologies to Rootschat searchers if this has alread been posted. Is this James’ marriage to Margaret Lombard?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11470/8216051.pdf

On some children’s baptisms, the mother is shown as Lambert or similar.

A Godmother is Anna (Latin) Kavanagh so has she been found and searched, Chippy?
No but will do a bit of digging on this ana one

No need to bother -  a sister.
In the list of children of James senior and Elizabeth Sheehan that I posted was Anne Kavanagh, born 1854.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 22:05 GMT (UK)
Oh could send me this list of James and Elizabeth sheenan children?.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 22:28 GMT (UK)
Oh could send me this list of James and Elizabeth sheenan children?.

Already did - Reply # 24, this thread.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 08 March 23 22:47 GMT (UK)
I looked previously for Ann Kavanagh in the Liverpool area and the only one I have found so far who is a possible match is :

1881 3689/5/3
Kirkby
Ann Cavannah, 28 yrs, Domestic Servant, b Wexford

Added
There is a death registered in West Derby district in 1888
Ann Kavanagh 33 yrs
Burial at Ford Cemetery with an address of 18 Carnarvon Street but difficult to say if these are the same people and also your family.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Wednesday 08 March 23 22:50 GMT (UK)
Going by the family tree I found on ancestry, the first two children were
James 1869, and
Elizabeth ?

If these where named for the paternal grandparents, then a candidate set of parents for James can be identified, from births of probable siblings of his in Gorey, viz:
James Kavanagh, and
Elizabeth Sheehan

They had multiple children in Gorey parish, as follows
Michael 1845
Elizabeth 1848
Margaret 1851
Anne 1854

There may be more - I only searched 1845-1855.
But note Michael 1845.
Address is Gorey - not sure how that fits with father James being a farmer as per 1868 marriage rgistration.

I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 08 March 23 23:58 GMT (UK)

I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married

Not exactly They were married in the registry office in Cork City.

Have you followed the links for the 1868 marriage registration - full details on that.
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Thursday 09 March 23 00:30 GMT (UK)

I know James Junior wife was from Dripsey Cork I think thats were they got married

Not exactly They were married in the registry office in Cork City.

Have you followed the links for the 1868 marriage registration - full details on that.


Ok 👍 but there residence was Dripsey? X
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Chippy27 on Thursday 09 March 23 00:34 GMT (UK)
I looked previously for Ann Kavanagh in the Liverpool area and the only one I have found so far who is a possible match is :

1881 3689/5/3
Kirkby
Ann Cavannah, 28 yrs, Domestic Servant, b Wexford

Added
There is a death registered in West Derby district in 1888
Ann Kavanagh 33 yrs
Burial at Ford Cemetery with an address of 18 Carnarvon Street but difficult to say if these are the same people and also your family.
I know this tricky I know Kirkby its outskirts of the city. Ford is a Catholic burial ground. I may look for her on 1881 census electrical rolls too
Title: Re: Kavanagh
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 09 March 23 07:14 GMT (UK)
Ok 👍 but there residence was Dripsey? X

Margaret Lombard living in Dripsey in the civil parish of Inniscarra.
Here's Dripsey village-
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6501909#map=14/51.9126/-8.7348