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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Isle of Man Lookup Requests => Topic started by: anpefa1 on Saturday 13 May 23 23:20 BST (UK)
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john garrett born 1827 buckingham uk married 1848 iom elizabeth corkill-woods baptised 1829
john (widowed) married 1869 in dublin elizabeth joughin (widow of james joughin died 1866)
for my records (garrett/gaynor) i am seeking the death date/year of elizabeth corkill woods (garrett) probably, possibly, maybe, uk records.
tony
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Where are John & Elizabeth living in 1851 & 1861?
What was John's occupation
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How do you know that John GARRETT who married Elizabeth CORKILL was born Buckingham?
"March 30, at Kirk Michael, Isle of Man, Mr. John Garrett to Miss Elizabeth Corkill, both of the above parish."
Tuesday, Apr. 18, 1848
Publication: Liverpool Mercury
There is a family of John and Elizabeth GARRETT of about the right age in Michael, Isle of Man in the 1861 census, all born Isle of Man. :-\
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The children of John and Elizabeth GARRET in the 1861 census at Michael, Isle of Man:
1849 John bap 11 Feb 1849 - parents John GARRETT and Elizabeth CORKILL
1852 Thomas bap 15 Feb 1852
1857 Elizabeth Margaret bap 1 Nov 1857
1857 Ann Jane bap 1 Nov 1857
John and Elizabeth GARRETT and children Elizabeth and Ann are still together in German, Isle of Man in 1871 and 1881.
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The 1869 marr. cert. can be viewed in Irishgenealogy.
Do you have the 1848 marr. cert to compare father of the groom's details.
Is your "John Garrett, born Buckingham" linked to the 1841 Census which has a 12 yr old John Garrett at Newport Pagnell, Bucks, NOT born in County? He's at school and I note there's another Garrett at the Academy.
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Irishgeneaalogy has the birth registration of -
John Henry Garrett, 30 May 1870, 9 North Terrace, Inchicore, father John Garrett, occpn. engine driver, mother Elizabeth Garrett, formerly Kennish.
John Garrett and Elizabeth Corkill are together thru' the '51, '61,'71 and '81 Census on IoM.
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many thanks for the responses.
from find my past 1841 census : elizabeth kennish born 1828
birth cert 1856 elizabeth marries james joughin iom
family search.org elizabeth & james in dublin 1866
irish genealogy: james joughin dies 1866
family search.org john garrett christened 1 july 1827 long crendon buckinghamshire, parents samuel & martha
find my past: samuel garrett marries martha maynard buckingham 1822
find my past: elizabeth corkill baptised 30/08/1829
findmy past: john garrett marries elizabeth corkill 13/03/1848 iom
irish genealogy: john garrett marries 15/07/1869 elizabeth joughin (surname mis-spelt in parish record, not unusual!)
irish census 1901: john & elizabeth dublin
5th may 1904 john dies, 25/11/1908 elizabeth dies.
elizabeth (joughin) garrett becomes the stepmother of mary jane garrett my wife's great great grandmother.
phew! Tony
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Ok, thanks for the further information.
From the 1869 marriage cert of John GARRETT (wid) and Elizabeth JOUGHIN (KENNISH, wid), his father is Samuel GARRETT, contractor. (Her's William KENNISH, farmer. ) Witnesses are George and Martha GARRETT.
The 1901 census at New Kilmainham:
John GARRETT 75 Buckinghamshire (Irish Church)
Elizabeth 73 Isle of Man (Methodist)
Emily JOUGHIN 30 Dublin (Irish Church)
There are a number of John GARRETTs born c1827 - there are 2 just in Isle of Man. From the information given above, you can see that the John GARRETT who married Elizabeth CORKILL in 1848 is not the one who married Elizabeth JOUGHIN in 1869.
When and where was Mary Jane GARRETT born?
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5th may 1904 john dies, 25/11/1908 elizabeth dies.
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John Garrett 1904. Son Henry Garrett was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05629/4583645.pdf
Elizabeth Garrett 1908. Again Henry Garrett the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05480/4534524.pdf
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The '41 Census has Samuel Garrett, Martha + family (inc John) in Cardiff - Samuel's occpn. platelayer. The '51 Census has them in Newport - minus John. Again, Samuel is a platelayer.
I wondered if the Samuel Garrett in this article might be "your" Samuel (column 4)?
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3089342/3089345/31/%22samuel%20garrett%22
Around this time there was a Samuel Garratt, Contractor, with extensive rail/pit interests in the area. Bankrupted 1854. I don't think the Samuel in the article is that Samuel, contractor. But interesting to note that by 1869 (John's marriage) he describes Samuel as a contractor.
Just to add to Maddy's comment - the John that married Elizabeth Corkill (1848) is NOT the John, widower, that married Elizabeth Kennish (1869).
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Given that John Garrett (soon to be "engine driver") was in Cardiff on the '41 Census I wondered if any vital events had occurred in the Principality under that name -
Marriage Registration
John Garrett, Dec qtr 1846, Cardiff, 26 614 - on the same page Martha Day, Eliza Thomas, Mary Sullivan, Ann Phillips
Birth Registration
Mary Garrett, Dec qtr 1847, Cardiff, 36 340 - mother's maiden name Thomas
FindMyPast Baptism (image/transcript)
14 Nov 1847, Mary, dau. of John and Eliza Garrett, abode Newtown, place of baptism Saint Mary the Virgin, Cardiff, father's occupation Engine Driver
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Well done hanes teulu, that looks promising. I had a quick look yesterday for Mary Jane GARRETT, but without further information from Tony I was hesitant to continue. :D
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The search is hampered by John crossing the sea to Ireland. Did Eliza die this side of the Irish sea? I've yet to spot the family in the '51 Census.
Civil registration (certain marriage apart) kicked off in 1864. I've checked Irishgen deaths '64-'69 for Eliza without success.
Found a marriage for a Mary Jane Garrett, 11 Dec 1871, Dublin south, father John Garrett, engine driver. Her age given as "minor" ie born c.1853-1855. This is confirmed by the 1901 Census - age given as "47, born County Dublin". This pre-dates civil registration but helps the timeline re. John arriving in Ireland?
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Found a marriage for a Mary Jane Garrett, 11 Dec 1871, Dublin south, father John Garrett, engine driver. Her age given as "minor" ie born c.1853-1855.
She could have been 20 yrs, so born c1851.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11362/8171371.pdf
Note that the two witnesses were George Garrett and Elizabeth Garrett (brother/sister?).
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Found a marriage for a Mary Jane Garrett, 11 Dec 1871, Dublin south, father John Garrett, engine driver. Her age given as "minor" ie born c.1853-1855.
She could have been 20 yrs, so born c1851.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11362/8171371.pdf
Note that the two witnesses were George Garrett and Elizabeth Garrett (brother/sister?).
Agreed - puzzled why I calculated a 3yr spread (16-18) not 5yr - or was it my mental arithmetic!.
Have been looking for a possible newspaper sighting of John in Ireland. Found an 1869 likely item but nowt earlier.
John married 1869 and had a son a year later. Mary Jane born pre. 1869 marriage - possibly daughter of "Elizabeth Kennish/Joaghin, widow" rather than John? John had a daughter Mary, born Cardiff (1846 marr cert to confirm definitely son of Samuel but looks good without it). Have seen 1st given name repeated on a later birth, and earlier birth still alive, but with a second given name. But this is rare.
If Mary Jane is Elizabeth Kennish's daughter, the timeline for John "engine driver" in Ireland changes. Mary Jane recorded as RC on the 1901 Census so Catholic parish registers might deliver?
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reply to MADDYS52,
mary jane garrett born 4/12/1853 inchicore dublin, father john mother eliza
the 1901 census shows emily joughin stepdaughter with john & elizabeth dublin
emily florence joughin, born 22/06/1866 dublin is the daughter of james joughin & elizabeth kennish
james joughin died 07/04/1866
mary jane married 11/12/1873 dublin father john engine driver witnessed by george & elizabeth garrett.
inchicore was the main hub of the irish railway works.
T.
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reply to carolw
there are no census records for 1851/61, records were destroyed during the bombing of Custom House in the Rising and what remained was moved to the Four Courts, these records were destroyed in the Civil War
given that Mary was born in Dublin in 1853 then it's safe to assume that John & Elizabeth were in Dublin 1851
Inchicore was the hub of the Irish railway ergo his employment as an engine driver
the 1901 English census shows John as a retired railway servant born in Buckinghamshire. T
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carolw
should read Irish census 1901
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Thanks Tony. So other births that look like siblings for Mary Jane are (parents John and Eliza of Inchicore):
1852 George Thomas (born 7 June 1852, bap 27 June 1852)
1853 Mary Jane (born 4 Dec 1853, bap 25 Dec 1853)
1857 Eliza (born 1 Jan 1857, bap 15 Feb 1857)
1862 Ellenor (born 13 Apr 1862, bap 20 Apr 1862)
Then after the 1869 marriage:
1870 Henry John (born 30 May 1870, bap 3 July 1870)
I think the marriage hanes teulu found in Cardiff still looks promising, though what happened to Mary born 1847? And mother Eliza appears to have died between 1862 and 1869 possibly in Inchicore, Dublin.
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Maddy52,
The Inchicore baptisms online under Irishgen church records - a real bonus. I was drawn to the 2nd given name of John Thomas Garrett.
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Does look interesting and promising. So hard with Irish records being generally unavailable for the time period needed.
Might have a look for Eliza THOMAS to see if John and Eliza GARRETT may have followed a naming pattern for their children - though it is a very common name!
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thanks for all the effort thus far,
maddys+: the mary jane born 04/12/1853 inchicore is my wife's g/gm
i need to take a step back and analyse the different sources of info y'all have given (for which i'm grateful) clearly there are conflicting parallels (the demon red herring)
the garrett/corkill, kennish/joughin, kennish-joughin garrett connections stand but clearly there is a spanner in the works.
the early irish church records did not record the mothers surname which does not help
for now i shall imbibe the grape of the vine and ponder
Tony