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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: elinga on Tuesday 16 May 23 13:22 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information regarding my paternal great grandfather
this is what I know , I have his marriage certificate and death certificates .
his name Robert McCrory (dob 1844 according to age in death certificate) , he married Maggie Adair on 26.6.1874, place Ballycarry Presbyterian Church in the parish of Templecorran (sp?) .
I know quite a bit about her and her family !
he is a Militiaman and his address is Ballymena !
his fathers name is William (Labourer)
they had 2 children born in Ireland before they left, Arthur Adair in 26.5.1875 and Elizabeth in or around 1878.
they are in Fife in Scotland in the 1881 census ,Arthur has died by the time this census was taken .
from Roberts death certificate I have his mothers name as Ellen Nicol !
I have searched for bmds for him and his parents in Northern Ireland but found nothing !
are there Militia records available anywhere ??
its only information regarding him or his parents in Ireland I require .
thanx any help would be greatly appreciated
regards
Elinga
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Here is Elizabeth’s birth which you don’t seem to have.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02991/2096133.pdf
Here is a possible death - Ellen McCrory - informant husband, William, of Ballymena
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020616/7233254.pdf
Widower William McCrory but death in Workhouse
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06480/4864318.pdf
Unfortunately lots of McCrorys though
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Previous McCrory/Adair posts
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=477619.msg3367447#msg3367447
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677566.msg5223275#msg5223275
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hello Heywood
thank you for that new information , I will take look at the certificates tomorrow !
do you think the address for Ellen McCrory is Bridewell Court ?
yes there are so many McCrorys its a minefield have been looking for them for about 20 years now and still not able to confirm qhich family is the right one :-(
thank you !
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CaroleW yes these are my previous posts ...... but still searching after 20 years !
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are there Militia records available anywhere ??
previous topic-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=461299.msg3219656
help please regarding a militiaman 1874 Carrickfergus
I have searched for bmds for him and his parents in Northern Ireland but found nothing !
Information on parents posted on previous topics (of which you have quite a few)
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hello Heywood
thank you for that new information , I will take look at the certificates tomorrow !
do you think the address for Ellen McCrory is Bridewell Court ?
yes there are so many McCrorys its a minefield have been looking for them for about 20 years now and still not able to confirm qhich family is the right one :-(
thank you !
Yes looks like Bridewell. or Bridewill (?)
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aghadowey
I am sorry if I have posted too many times , but I still have not got proof that these people Ellen Nichol and William McCrory are his parents also I still have not found a definite birth for him !
and until I can confirm who is who I cant go further back as the surname is very common !
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No need to keep making posts looking for the same people as you can always add to an existing topic as more information comes to light or you have further questions.
Civil registration of births began 1864 so there will be no birth certificate for Robert born about 1844. The closest you might get is a record of a baptism but not all church records are online and you need to have an idea of religion and area to see what records might survive. PRONI's Guide to Church Records is a good place to start checking for these records-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records
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Given the mention above of Bridewell Court, Ballymena, where a 51 year old Ellen McCrory died in 1875, I wondered about the bride in the following 1877 marriage, 19 year old Ellen McCrory of that address, daughter of William McCrory a labourer, marrying a Richard McLoughlin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11122/8071798.pdf
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Gaffy I was so excited when I saw your post .....but
once I read it , it made me rethink !
I know it doesnt rule it out but they were protestant (in fact the men of the family were Orange men) and it says Ellen McCrory was married in St Patricks !
so I dont think it is the same family :-(
but thank you very much for helping !
regards
Elinga
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St Patrick's Church of Ireland (Protestant). I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it, but your choice. :)
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St Patrick's Church of Ireland (Protestant). I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it, but your choice. :)
thank you I will certainly keep that information !
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If my 'fierce' Presbyterian family is anything to go by they often married from CoI churches, in fact at one stage marriages had to be in CoI to be legal? I think?
Tradition has it that the marriage is usually from the bride's church so St Patricks CoI church might have been the CoI church they were using, or the husband may have been CoI.
Elinga you can always check the denomination by looking at the handwritten register to see where the ceremony was held.
Ellen Nichol and William McCrory are his parents
1 have you found all of Robert McCrory's siblings?
2 have you found his death certificate, who was the informant?
3 Have you found all of his children and listed them in birth order?
There are finding aids such as Griffiths, census scraps, Tithe references
The Irish had naming pattern and many followed it
'The Irish naming pattern is as follows:
1st son is named after the father’s father.
2nd son is named after the mother’s father.
3rd son is named after the father.
4th son is named after the father’s eldest brother.
1st daughter is named after the mother’s mother.
2nd daughter is named after the father’s mother.
3rd daughter is named after the mother.
4th daughter is named after the mother’s eldest sister.'
https://youririshheritage.com/lessons/irish-naming-patterns/
Sometimes you can come to a reasonable conclusion that such & such people may be the parents, especially if the siblings use similar names ie following the naming patterns.
I think many of us would help but the plethora of posts is wearying/wearing/worrying.
Could you summarise the answers to the above questions from previous postings and we will give it a really good go......
And also commit to using this thread going forward. ;D
Also there comes a time when we cannot find birth certificates etc and then we can use DNA and sometimes that can push us back a couple of generations if we come from a family/ies who are also genealogists. Have you had your DNA tested?
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Hi shanreagh
sorry I havent replied been away for a week !
so I will go over everything I have and try and post something in the best order I can !
yes I am familiar with the naming patterns, both irish and scottish and at least Robert and Maggies children followed it/them I say that as that they were brought up in Scotland !
regards
elinga
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Hi Shanreagh
when Robert married Margaret (Maggie) 26.6.1874 , his address is given as Ballymena, hers is Irish Quarter Carrickfergus !
I am going to answer your questions as best as possible !
I have not found any of Roberts siblings !
yes I have has death certificate , he died 21.10.1933 his age is 89 so suggested dob is 1844 !
William McCrory and Ellen Nichol are his parents , his son William was the informant.
yes I have found all his children (at least I think I have) , Arthur died in Carrickfergus and Elizabeth was born there , the rest born in Scotland !
Arthur Adair 1875-1876
Elizabeth Mary 1877-1953
Ellen 1879-1951
William 1881-1946
Robert Alexander 1881-1884
Margaret 1883-1885
Arthur 1885- 1951
Margaret Alexander 1887-1951
Robert 1889-1918
Mary Ann 1891-1969
Isabella Kilpatrick 1893-1934
male child still born 1894
Samuel 1895-1966
Samuel is my grandfather and his children were ,Mary,Margaret,Samuel,William,Mary,Albert,Robert.
he also seems to follow the pattern !
thats what I know !
regards
Elinga
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still searching , but I have had time to reflect on the information that Gaffy gave me regarding the marriage of Ellen McCrory and Richard McLaughlin (McLoughlin) in 1877 in Ballymena and have been trying to find more about them , if they had children atc , but to no avail !
the more I think about them I beiieve they are connected to me !
so if anyone can hlep me find their children or point me in a directionto to trace them I would be most appreciative....
thanx in advance
regards
Elinga
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I can see twin boys born to a couple with those names in 1884, I imagine there must be earlier children:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02705/1995889.pdf
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thanx Gaffy , there were lots of sets if twins in the family and there are still twins being born today !
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There's the following widow Ellen with family in Ballymena in 1901 ...
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Princess_Street/925427/
... for whom I can find births that 'fit' for a couple of the listed children, eg.
Rachel:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02433/1905707.pdf
Andrew: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02530/1937110.pdf
Added: Ellen in 1911:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballymena__No__2__Urban__In_34_files_/Clonavon_Road/117410/
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thanx again Gaffy !
got a birth and marriage record for Margaret but she is not married in 1901 census but she married Thomas Starrs in 1909 but there is no mention of him in the 1911 census ?
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...but she married Thomas Starrs in 1909 but there is no mention of him in the 1911 census ?
Have you excluded this one?
Thomas McKeever Starrs born in Scotland and a carpenter in the 1911 census, as he was when he married Margaret in 1909.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10031/5648866.pdf
House 7 in Diamond Street (Wood Vale Ward, Antrim).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Diamond_Street/163822/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001478985/
He was given as the father (Thomas McKeever Starrs) when Margaret was the informant for Joseph in 1913, Thomas McKeever in 1919 and Margaret Christina in 1920.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01444/1590949.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01226/1510243.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01194/1497215.pdf
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Kiltaglassan thats the marriage I have but he is only called Thomas Starrs , wonder why de didnt call himself Thomas McKeever Starrs at marriage ?
even in Ellen McLaughlin Starrs birth in 1910 he is just Thomas Starrs
anyway it certainly looks like him as he has Joseph Starrs as a witness on the marriage certificate , so that would suggest his brother , then he has a son Joseph in 1915 !
I had a look for him in scotlandspeople , but couldnt find him !
anyway regarding him not living with his family in the census ?
ok he was a carpenter/joiner so I suppose he had to travel to find work ...
from what I can gather , Princess Street Ballymena and Diamond Street , Wood Vale Ward are about 30 miles apart !
anyway thanx for your help !
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Birth indexed under Stars:
STARS
THOMAS MCKEEVER
GREER (mother's maiden name)
M
1880
644 / 3 / 1922
DENNISTOUN
So his parents' marriage:
STARS
THOMAS
GREER
REBECCA
1876
644 / 3 / 228
DENNISTOUN
and potential siblings:
STARS
ALEXANDER
GREER
M
1883
644 / 10 / 1629
ANDERSTON
STARS
JOSEPH
GREER
M
1885
644 / 10 / 74
ANDERSTON
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Thomas and brother Joseph Stars/Starrs, living with their Greer relatives at Mill Street in 1901:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Mill_Street/926297/
and quite possibly their mum, living and working in Belfast, still showing as married, but husband does not appear with her:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Conlig_Street/964161/
and her death in 1906 under 'Starrs':
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/0d4a6f4875392
which records her as wife of Thomas Starrs.
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thank you scotmum for your help !