RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: kob3203 on Monday 05 June 23 17:40 BST (UK)
-
On 19 March 1926 my great uncle Patrick Corbett (30y1m, so born 1896) and his uncle Thomas Sweeney (46, so born 1879-80) set off from Southampton for the USA on SS Orduna, stating that they were joining Thomas brother, Patrick's uncle, James Sweeney at 1519 Fernand [sic] Ave, Detroit Mich.
The 1930 census record for 1519 Ferdinand Avenue, Detroit, Mich is free on FamilySearch and seems to confirm this - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRHV-7T3?cc=1810731&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AX79B-JQ7 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRHV-7T3?cc=1810731&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AX79B-JQ7)
James Sweeney, head of household, is age 52, so born 1877-8
The second boarder at that address is Patrick Corbet, age 33 (so born 1896-7).
We know that Patrick Corbett was born 21 Sep 1897 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
His uncle Thomas Sweeney was born 22 Feb 1880 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
His uncle James Sweeney was born 26 Jul 1870 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
Thomas' age fits, and Patrick's age is a bit out (one year). But the problem is that James' age is 7-8 years out, which seems a bit much.
How common is it for ages to be that far out (about 15%) on a census ?
-
Ages and immigration dates can commonly be out.
Were the parents names correct on the death certificate ?
Sandra
-
No, the mother's surname doesn't match. Our James' parents were recorded as Patrick Swiney and Margaret Hayes in the birth register (see attached image) although we're fairly certain his mother's maiden name was actually Keys and the registrar made an error - all the other children of Patrick Swiney, shoemaker, of Mulberry have mother Margaret Keys/Keyes/Keays.
If James' mother's surname on his 11 Mar 1931 death record is correct then we have the wrong marriage for the couple at 1519 Ferdinand:
17 Aug 1913 Manhattan marriage record for James Sweeney (35, so est b1837-1838) and Mary Casey (32, so est b1880-1881) which gives James' parents as Patrick Sweeney and Margaret Hayes, and Mary's parents as Michael Casey and Nora Hayes.
(Link: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/sources/viewedit/3JFG-9LS?context (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/sources/viewedit/3JFG-9LS?context))
The brides parents names on that marriage match a 17 Jul 1948 Detroit death record for Mary Sweeney (born 1 Feb 1885) which gives her parents as Michael Casey and Nora Hayes.
(Link: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/sources/viewedit/3XGG-XVF?context (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/sources/viewedit/3XGG-XVF?context))
I keep coming back to Patrick Corbett's 1926 statement that he's going to join his uncle James Sweeney at 1519 Fernand [sic] Ave, Detroit, plus the fact that in 1930 he is indeed at 1519 Ferdinand boarding with the household of James Sweeney.
I considered the possibility that there was a second uncle James Sweeney, but can find nothing to support that.
One other oddity. There is a Margaret Lyons on the birth records of some of James' and Thomas' siblings - "Informant - Margaret Lyons, grandmother, present at birth", and their paternal grandfather is also Patrick Swiney. So Patrick Swiney and Margaret Lyons could be James' paternal grandparents.
-
Death records are notoriously wrong on parents' names, so I wouldn't give that too much weight. People are grieving, and the informant may not have ever known things like the deceased's mother's maiden name.
In case it helps, you can see the image of the 1913 marriage for James & Mary here - https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/8867858
-
…His uncle James Sweeney was born 26 Jul 1870 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
Thomas' age fits, and Patrick's age is a bit out (one year). But the problem is that James' age is 7-8 years out, which seems a bit much.
How common is it for ages to be that far out (about 15%) on a census ?
To be honest, I’ve not absorbed all of the details for this topic, but in case this helps…
In 1930, James and Mary were ages 52 and 50.
Their children were James, Jr - 15, William - 14, Mary - 13 (and John, 9 and Ellen, 5).
In 1920, James and Mary were ages 35 and 34.
Their children were James - 5, William - 4, and Mary J. - 2 9/12.
I would guess that this is for the same family as the childrens’ details are almost identical, even though the parents ages are a bit off?
-
…We know that Patrick Corbett was born 21 Sep 1897 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
His uncle Thomas Sweeney was born 22 Feb 1880 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
His uncle James Sweeney was born 26 Jul 1870 in Mitchelstown, Co Cork
Thomas' age fits, and Patrick's age is a bit out (one year). But the problem is that James' age is 7-8 years out, which seems a bit much.
James Sweeney’s (address 1519 Ferdinand) death certificate states that he was born May 15, 1879. ???
-
Perhaps FamilySearch has the following?
Ship Baltic, arrived New York, 30 August 1907
James Sweeney, age 28, Joiner(?), born ?idleton, Co. Cork
James details are crossed off, so perhaps he didn’t sail?
Under his name is
Martin(?) Sweeney, age 23, Labourer, born ?idleton, Co. Cork
Possibly going to brother-in-law Thomas McGrath(?), New York.
Added: their father was James Sweeney.
-
Death records are notoriously wrong on parents' names, so I wouldn't give that too much weight. People are grieving, and the informant may not have ever known things like the deceased's mother's maiden name.
In case it helps, you can see the image of the 1913 marriage for James & Mary here - https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/8867858
Thanks for the NYC DORIC link to the actual marriage certificate - always nice to see the original.
Regarding James' mother's surname on the death certificate, I had a suspicion that Mary might have accidentally given his grandmother's maiden surname.
However, I'm at a loss for a feasible explanation for James birth date of 15 May 1879 on his death certificate, assuming that he really is our Patrick Corbett's uncle born 26 Jul 1870, which I think he is.
James Sweeney’s (address 1519 Ferdinand) death certificate states that he was born May 15, 1879. ???
Yes, that's really puzzling me.
-
James Sweeney’s (address 1519 Ferdinand) death certificate states that he was born May 15, 1879. ???
Yes, that's really puzzling me.
I don’t remember the details as it was decades ago, but we have a family friend or someone else who didn’t know/couldn’t remember when he/she was born. Didn’t know the day, month or year. I suppose that can happen?
Did you see the added bit about James’ father’s name - according to the immigration record (which may or may not be for the same fellow as previously mentioned), his father’s name was James. Also, did your James have a brother named Martin?
-
Did you see the added bit about James’ father’s name - according to the immigration record (which may or may not be for the same fellow as previously mentioned), his father’s name was James. Also, did your James have a brother named Martin?
Thanks Lisa, yes I did.
FamilySearch has a scan of the Baltic passenger list, but that James Sweeney's father being James rules him out, both as my Patrick's uncle, and as the head at 1519 Ferdinand. The James Sweeney at 1519 Ferdinand (who may be our Patrick Corbett's uncle despite the mismatch of birth date) was the son of Patrick and Margaret - both 17 Aug 1913 Manhattan marriage record and 11 Mar 1931 Detroit death record agree on their given names.
I've attached a FamilySearch tree screenshot of our Patrick's Sweeney uncles and aunts.
-
It's late evening where I am, so I'll sleep on it.
-
On 19 March 1926 my great uncle Patrick Corbett (30y1m, so born 1896) and his uncle Thomas Sweeney (46, so born 1879-80) set off from Southampton for the USA on SS Orduna, stating that they were joining Thomas brother, Patrick's uncle, James Sweeney at 1519 Fernand [sic] Ave, Detroit Mich.
Thank you for including the years of birth…I’m mathematically challenged so having ages and years of birth is really helpful (for me). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve counted on my fingers when researching. ;D
Thank you for showing the additional family members.
-
Have a good evening. It’s the start of our day here. I’ll continue for a bit longer and come back later today in case anyone finds anything interesting.
-
In the 1930, census living with James Sweeney is a boarder:
James Mulroy, age 46, Single, born Irish Free State, immigration date unknown, no occupation.
Do you have any knowledge of this man’s ties to your family? :-\. I wonder if he was truly just a boarder or if he knew the family in Ireland.
-
There were a lot of Sweeneys living in Detroit in 1930 (per the city’s directory). According to an internet search, Detroit had a population of over 1.5 million residents.
James Sweeney’s address was 1519 Ferdinand.
A Ruth Sweeney was living at 1551 Ferdinand. A possible relative or just a coincidence due to the common surname and large population.
Added:
1922 Detroit City Directory
Sweeney, Jas C. reprmn. h 1519 Ferdinand av.
-
Since all we know for sure about our James Sweeney (my great granduncle) son of Patrick Swiney and Margaret Hayes/Keys, is that he was born on 25 Jul 1870 I've decided to do a bit more digging.
I'm also wondering whether perhaps the James Sweeney at 1519 Ferdinand was perhaps a more distant relative ? Not his mother's brother, but possibly a cousin of his mother (Bridget Sweeney b1869) ? Maybe a bit more digging will turn up another younger James.
Regarding our James Sweeney (my great granduncle) I found that in 1901, age 32, he was at 33 Mulberry Lane Mitchelstown Co Cork with his parents and 3 younger siblings. But I can't find him in the 1911 census. So it's possible that he did go to America, but so far no luck finding him.
I've really not touched the Sweeney side of the family as far as research goes, and the surname Mulroy isn't familiar at all.
Edited to add: I've just found that our James (my great granduncle) was in Ireland in 1906, informant for his father's death registration.
-
Our James Sweeney, Patrick Corbett's mother's brother born 1870 is on the FamilySearch tree here - https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/969S-TC9 (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/969S-TC9)) - I added him.
The James Sweeney and family at 1519 Ferdinand already existed in the FamilySearch tree here as James Sweeney Sr and Mary Casey - https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GWW6-RQQ (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GWW6-RQQ)
I haven't merged the two James yet because of the discrepancy in ages plus the small possibility that Patrick's 'uncle' James Sweeney at 1519 Ferdinand is not his mother's brother but a more distant relative who I don't yet know about. I've added notes to both James.
+ + + + + + + + + +
While working through the documentary evidence I noticed that Mary Casey's death record gives her birth date as 1 Feb 1885, whereas her civil birth registration gives 1 Feb 1879.
So six years difference.
Maybe James age being out by nine years isn't such a show-stopper ?