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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: haney on Monday 10 July 23 04:04 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
I am looking for the birth possibly for the above in Sussex! According to his death details on the Victorian BDM his parents are HIRAM GOSDEN and ELLEN?
James was about 103 years old when he died in Victoria in 1905. One report has him at 104 and 7 months.
He had a brother (Hiram?) who was aged 90 at this time in South Australia
James married Fanny Thomas (Widow) in 1857 in Victoria. He maiden name was "Labbit" and variant spellings.
From the various obits and notices in the paper for James they state that he arrived to Australia/Colony in 1841 on the "GUIDING STAR" was a baker and confectioner by trade.
Any help in finding anymore information on him would be great.
I have tried to look at everything possible but I cannot find any details of his birth OR arrival in Australia. Kind regards and many thanks Dianna
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James married Fanny Thomas (Widow) in 1857 in Victoria. He maiden name was "Labbit" and variant spellings.
When he married he said he had been widowed on 22 Sep 1850, he was born in Harlington, Sussex and was aged 45. His parents are named as Thomas GOSDEN, a farmer, and Mary BENNETT.
Debra :)
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Based on Debra’s Information:
This is his Baptism:
James GOSDEN - Baptized November 10th, 1815
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgt/
(https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgu/)
This is their marriage:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgs/
Jame’s Parents’ Marriage:
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He was probably telling a few porkies about his age when he married.
James GOSDEN
Baptism Date 10 Nov. 1805
Baptism Place Arlington, Sussex, England
Father Thomas GOSDEN
Mother Mary
Debra :)
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Hi Debra
Thank you for the information. Well the records are "Off" possibly with his parents being HIRAM and ELLEN on the Victorian BDM.
I cannot access the link you provided unfortunately it does ring a bell somehow though. Hmmm more work to do here perhaps. Many thanks Dianna
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This is a lengthy newspaper biography about Hiram GOSDEN upon his death.
Mentions his brother.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/164103529?searchTerm=%22Hiram%20gosden%22
Sue
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This is Jame’s Birth to Hiram & Ellen Nothing Found - Strange that the Article mentions that his father was Thomas.
Jame’s Marriage Index:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgv/
Jame’s Death Record
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgw/
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Hi I just logged into ancestry. Now I can see what you have kindly sent. Many thanks Dianna
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WOW that article is amazing. Thanks so much re Hiram and the Old Brother James is mentioned there. Fantastic Dianna
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While there is no evidence that the brothers arrived together, here is some information from BISA about Hiram which may apply to James also .
Parents, Thomas and ?born 11/7/1817 Arlington Sussex. Died 26/12/1907. At Clarence Park . Buried WRC. Arrived per Eliza. Occ Builder, Farmer. Res Golden Grove. Hermitage, Mt Crawford. Rel Bap. Married …….. 3 times…..etc.
Sue
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Another article about Jame’s Father, Thomas:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/158921478
“List of Letters detained in consequence of the non-payment of the Ship-postage:”
There is a Thomas GOSDEN listed on this Article:
“Thomas Gosden, Arlington, Sussex, near Hailshara, Great Britain.”
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He is mentioned in court too:
“10 Nov 1802: Minutes of a general court baron. 4
Admission of Ody Wenham youngest son of Edward Wenham, to 3 roods at the Dicker.
Grant, with consent of the homage, to Thomas Gosden the younger of Arlington, husbandman, of a rood of land abutting to his land late Dine's, S, Abbots Wood, E, the road from the Hide of Milton to the Dicker, W and the road leading into Abbots Wood, N, quitrent 2s.''
Admission of Ann Ellis, widow of Henry Ellis to two moieties of a messuage and 40 acres in Hellingly
Admission of William Mitchell of Hellingly, potter, on surrender by William Ashby to a messuage and 2 acres on the E part of the Dicker.”
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Thomas along with his wife, Mary in the 1841 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgy/
1851 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgx/
1861 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgz/
In the 1861 Census, there is no Mary so that means she died some time from 1851 to 1861.
Using that, I was able to find a Parish Record Mary’s Death in 1852:
Mary GOSDEN - February 6th, 1852
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sh2/
Thomas died sometime from 1861 to 1871.
Using that, I was able to find a parish record of his Death & Burial Record of Thomas in 1868:
Thomas GOSDEN - January 21st, 1868
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sh1/
*edited James to Thomas. Thanks Sparrett
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Now with their parents.
The 1851 Census tells us that Thomas was born in Arlington, Essex, England while Mary was born in Folkington, Essex, England.
This is Mary’s Baptism Record:
Mary BENNETT - June 17th, 1780 - Folkington
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sh3/
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Thomas along with his wife, Mary in the 1841 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgy/
1851 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgx/
1861 Census:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sgz/
In the 1861 Census, there is no Mary so that means she died some time from 1851 to 1861.
Using that, I was able to find a Parish Record Mary’s Death in 1852:
Mary GOSDEN - February 6th, 1852
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sh2/
James died sometime from 1861 to 1871.
Using that, I was able to find a parish record of his Death & Burial Record of James in 1868:
James GOSDEN - January 21st, 1868
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sh1/
Thomas, not James ;D
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Thomas, not James ;D
Thanks for letting me know! ;D
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Wonderful! Many thanks for all the great information. Will try and find the first marriage for James GOSDEN?? Must have been in Aus (I assume if he arrived in 1841) Oh Maybe not!!
I have not seen the immigration or shipping records so I am not sure if he arrived with a wife! All good many thanks Dianna.
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Wonderful! Many thanks for all the great information. Will try and find the first marriage for James GOSDEN?? Must have been in Aus (I assume if he arrived in 1841) Oh Maybe not!!
I have not seen the immigration or shipping records so I am not sure if he arrived with a wife! All good many thanks Dianna.
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An English marriage??
Marriages Dec 1840
BUDD Hannah
GOSDEN James
Chertsey 4/39
An Australian birth
OSDEN Frederick Alexan
M. Hannah BUDD
F. James
At PRAH
1854
2102/1854
A letter for James in Prahran. 1855
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4823378
Sue
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James was about 103 years old when he died in Victoria in 1905. One report has him at 104 and 7
An English marriage??
Marriages Dec 1840
BUDD Hannah
GOSDEN James
Chertsey 4/39
An Australian birth
OSDEN Frederick Alexan
M. Hannah BUDD
F. James
At PRAH
1854
2102/1854
A letter for James in Prahran. 1855
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4823378
Sue
Wrong James GOSDEN
Funeral Notice for Hannah GOSDEN states "relict of James GOSDEN".
Dated 1902
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/211464114?searchTerm=%22gosden%22
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Hi Haney
Here is one James GOSDEN, a baker, in 1841.
Viewable at Ancestry
Piece 1122
Book 2
Folio 35
Page number 20
GOSDEN, James, baker aged 35.
GOSDEN Barbary, aged 30.
PETTIT, Eliz aged 15
WICKER, Wm aged 9 months.
The birth of William Wicker
WICKER, WILLIAM mms WICKER -
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in BRIGHTHELMSTON Volume 07 Page 228
Possibly Barbary/a was in the Lambeth workhouse in 1854 aged 50
And died aged 55
GOSDEN, BARBARA aged 55
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in LAMBETH
Volume 01D Page 226
I suspect the information on his marriage to Fanny Thomas was not entirely truthful.
Sue
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Hi Sue
The plot thickens! If this is indeed James GOSDEN! Hmmm! I have tried to find him today on immigration records/shipping/even convict records coming into Australia, nothing found so far.
From one of the obits for James it said he arrived in the colony in 1841! On the "Guiding Star" maybe this was an error.
As you say looks like a few porkies on his marriage to Fanny Thomas. One of the trees I looked at today had James birth as 21 September 1801 in Arlington, Sussex. No source or record of this event though.
So the question is when did he actually arrive in Aus! If he just up and left his wife, doesn't look like anyone knew about it at this end.
Thank once again for your time. Regards Dianna
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When I look at the 1841 census, I see the word adopted next to baby William's name.
Thats unusual in itself as we don't expect to see relationships noted in 1841.
He was 9 months so if there had been a marriage between Barbary and James,why is he not their child instead of exnuptial?
I do not see a marriage between 1837 and 1841.
ADDING. Adult Birth dates were often rounded to 5 years in 1841, so not reiable