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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Seelife on Friday 06 October 23 20:00 BST (UK)
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Hi Folks. I have two Charles Frederick Winns. One baptism in Bedale, Yorkshire 1848. The other CF Winn was baptised in Marsham, Yorkshire, 26 Sep 1848. I am not up to speed with Yorkshire registrations, but the two places are quite close to each other. Are these the same person but different registrations? These are not on my tree, but I usually check all nearby Winn/Winds and some Winns moved to County Durham. Thanks for any hints.
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Where did the information about the Bedale baptism come from? I can't see it in the parish register, so was it non-conformist?
Alternatively, has a birth registration been mistaken for a baptism? Masham (not Marsham) was in the Bedale registration district.
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Hi Arthurk, sorry, a typo. Yes. Masham was the baptism place, and the reference is Anglican, from a Transcription on Findmypast, Archive reference N-PR-MAS1-8 page 147.
The other reference to Bedale, V24, Pg 414 is District Bedale and from Brightsolid Online Publishing. Are these are maybe different transcriptions?
The father is Samel and mother Jane. There is a question mark over whether Jane is a Jane Taylor or Jane Drake.
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There is civil registration on the GRO site, for the birth of a Charles Frederick WINN, Q3 1848 Bedale District, mmn TAYLOR
£2.50 will get you a scan of the register entry to see the details immediately.
Boo
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Oh, thank you so much. Now it all starts to make sense, even the mother is now clear. Thank you, I had completely forgotten GRO in this timeframe.
However, I have a Familysearch record that says the father Samuel marries a jane Drake in 15 Sep 1839. Not sure how the mothers maiden name is Taylor in that case.
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There is a transcript of a marriage between Samuel Winn and Jane Taylor in Leeds on 1 September 1832.
Have you found him in census records at all?
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Same is true of Charles' sister Jane
WINN, JANE
mm TAYLOR
Q3 1845 BEDALE Volume 24 Page 373
It's possible someone's picked the wrong Jane from the list of spouses?
Marriages Q3 1839
Wakefield Vol 22 p515
DRAKE Jane
HIRST William
MILNER Hannah
SUNYEAR Benjamin
TAYLOR Jane
WARRINER Peter
WILSON Fanny
WINN Samuel
IGNORE THIS - THIS JANE TAYLOR MARRIED BENJAMIN SUNYEAR
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Sept 15 1839 St John's Church Wakefield
Samuel Winn - plumber
Father James Winn carpenter
Jane Drake - spinster
Father George Drake, plumber
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The Samuel Winn who married Jane Drake is not your Samuel. He was a plumber and can be found in Leeds in the 1851 census with wife Jane and children Arthur and Clara.
The baptism in Masham of Charles Frederick shows his father was a policeman. A younger brother Thomas Edward Winn was baptized March 1 1851 in York.
William
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There is a transcript of a marriage between Samuel Winn and Jane Taylor in Leeds on 1 September 1832.
Have you found him in census records at all?
This marriage makes more sense, given the ages of the children on the 1851 census. All b Yorkshire. Living in Newcastle upon Tyne
Samuel Winn 60 Head Ticket porter (?) - rail Added - 40, as per message below, seems more likely from the image
Jane Winn 42 Wife
Mary Winn 19
Elizabeth Winn 17
Fany Lura Winn 10
Jane Winn 8
Charles F Winn 6
Thos Edward Winn 2
Watkn Wm Winn 3 Mo
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The family would appear to be the one in Northumberland in 1851
Samuel 40
Jane 42
Mary 19
Elizabeth 17
Fanny 10
Jane 8
Charles 6
Thomas 2
Another son whose name I can't read 0
Registration District Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
Page Number 7
Piece/Folio 2407 / 275
Registration Number HO107
Bev
(Cross-posted)
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Samuel's occupation is a bit variable
Gardener when he married
Policeman on baptisms
Likely 1861 census for Jane has her as master mariner's widow!
When Thomas Edward marries his father is a police detective
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Also, William Watkin (or vice versa), the son listed last on 1851 who looks like an infant, actually appears to have be b c1842 (or even 1840, as there's a baptism in Ripon in that year)
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Alternatively, has a birth registration been mistaken for a baptism? Masham (not Marsham) was in the Bedale registration district.
The other reference to Bedale, V24, Pg 414 is District Bedale and from Brightsolid Online Publishing. Are these are maybe different transcriptions?
Just backtracking to this, as no-one has responded to it yet.
As I thought, Bedale refers to the GRO birth registration. The entry that Tickettyboo quotes has this reference number in the index (Vol. 24, Page 414 - sometimes just written 24/414), and as Boo says, you can get an instant pdf copy from the GRO. Don't ever be tempted to order a copy of a certificate from anywhere other than the GRO or a local register office, as other sites usually add a considerable markup to the price.
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Hi folks, sorry for the delayed response.
The inputs are super useful. It seems that Samuel married Jane Taylor according to children's MMN. However there appears to be two marriages, Jane Taylor and Jane Drake to a Samuel Winn, one in Leeds, one on Wakefield. I also came across the Northumberland census, and the odd reference to policeman ond a mariner!
I am still leaning to there being two Samuels, the trick is, which is which.
I need to write it out as I'm getting confused...
Thanks for the inputs though, I think the extra info you all brought will resolve it.
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Hi folks, here is a partial summary.
1 Charles Frederick Winn was born Masham/Bedale, source same district.
2 CFW Father is Samuel, mother Taylor
3 there is a second Samuel Winn married to a Jane Drake, 1839
4 A Samuel Winn married J Taylor 1832 in Leeds
5 Samuel/Drake have 2 kids in Leeds
6 Samuel/Taylor appear in 1851 in Newcastle OT with several kids MMN Taylor
7 there is some confusion over occupation of Samuel, but he seems to be a "policeman".
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There seems to be a bit of confusion surrounding Samuel Winn and which one is the real one. Suppose they both are but the one I know about was a policeman for Ripon Liberty. As far as I have been able to discover he was born in Beverely in 1803. His parents were Joseph and Sarah. His father was a whitesmith. Samuel was baptised at St Mary & St Nicholas (well worth a visit) on 4th December 1803. I have not been able to find out any more about his life in Beverly, but by 1830 he was either a constable or police officer in Leeds where he met Jane Taylor. Trying to pinpoint Jane has been difficult as (like Samuel) there are a couple of Jane Taylors in Leeds around this time. However I believe she may have been born in September 1811. What is definite is that Samuel Winn (30) married Jane Taylor (21) on 1st September 1832, just in time really as their first child, Ann was born in Ripon in November and baptised at the Minster on 6th November 1832. Samuel's profession is given as police officer. On 16th July 1830 Samuel Winn was in Ripon as a witness for the trial of Robert Calder and Samuel Grier for robbery. It is highly likely he had something to do with their arrest for after the trail he it was noted by the Justices that "In consequence of the numerous Felonies lately committed within this Liberty It is ordered that a Committee of the Justices assembled at this Sessions be appointed to engage Mr. Samuel Winn to be stationed at Ripon in order as much as possible to prevent the increase of crime." So it was that he became Ripon Liberty's first (and only) paid policeman. He was paid £30 for on quarter in 1831. Ten years later in June 1841 he was the defendant in a defamation case at the Ecclesiastical Court in York which he lost. Saddled with paying costs he was declared bankrupt in May1842 he was replaced by Thomas Ellinson Collinson as the Liberty Police Officer. Winn also lost his business (he had a shop on Middle Street in Ripon selling glass, china and earthenware goods as well as his police job). This was a sad end to a quite remarkable career which was bookended by run-ins with the Atkinson Gang and included a nasty skirmish with the Sinkler brothers.