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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: birdboot on Tuesday 24 October 23 19:08 BST (UK)
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I am wondering where illegitmate children would be cared for if not with their mother, who was a servant.
I have an ancestor Jean Whitton (born Arbirlot 1823) who obtained an aliment decree in 1855 for a female child born "on or about 3rd April 1848". The name and whereabouts of the child were not stated in the decree, but judgement was given that payment should be made until the child reached the age of 10. Therefore, I assume that the child must have been somewhere in 1851. I can't find Jean (or Jane) in the 1851 census. Was there a workhouse in those days?
She married Edward Johnston at Dundee (also recorded at Perth) on 25 August 1851. She had a male child in December 1855 recorded as (no first name) Johnston. However, I believe the marriage had failed at that time. Edward emigrated in 1857 with two children from a previous marriage. Jean had a daughter recorded as Margaret Whitton in 1858. No father's name was given.
In 1861 I believe she was a servant to sisters named Symers in Dundee. (Her place of birth is given as Alyth, but I think this is an error as the enumerator has probably just done "ditto" after the three sisters.)
In later life she formed a relationship with a Thomas Robertson (they did not marry) and she had two children - John Robertson and Maggie Robertson, whose ages match closely the boy named Johnston and the Margaret Whitton born in 1858.
To get to the point of my message, I am wondering where the boy (probably known as John) and Margaret/Maggie were in 1861. They are not with Jean's parents or any of her siblings. They would be aged about 6 and 3. Could they have been in an institution?
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Is this Jean's birth or baptism on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk?
JEAN BUICK WHITTON
ROBERT WHITTON/JOANNA PEACOCK
F
26/05/1822
271
40 / 11
ARBIRLOT
Colin
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Yes, that is Jean. Just to save going over ground I have covered, I should add that she had an illegitimate child William Livingston in 1851, who subsequently lived with her parents Robert and Joan.
Then she had the child in 1848 who was the subject of the aliment decree. The father was William Maclachlan, a coachman in Edinburgh.
In April 1850 she was up before the court for "having a child in a rather private manner". It's a convoluted story in the Dundee newspaper. The father was alleged to be a coachman in Edinburgh (sounds familiar!). The child, a girl named Jane, was buried aged 5 weeks.
She married Edward Johnston in 1851 and they had the son registered with no first name in 1855. The birth record says they also had one other child, a girl, who was dead. I have never found that birth or burial.
I am trying to find the whereabouts in 1851 of the girl born April 1848 and the whereabouts in 1861 of the boy born 1855 and Margaret Whitton born 1858.
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I note that the surname was different on the rest of the family, hence needing to check.
JOAN PEACOCK MARRIED ROBT. WHITTET 26/07/1805 DUNDEE
WHITTET GEORGE ROBERT WHITTET/JOAN PEACOCK 23/08/1807 INCHTURE, PERTH
WHITTET WILLIAM ESSON ROBERT WHITTET/JOANNA PEACOCK 20/04/1812 ST VIGEANS
WHITTET MARGARET THOMSO ROBERT WHITTET/JOANNA PEACOCK 30/10/1813 ST VIGEANS
WHITTET ISABELLA ROBERT WHITTET/JOANNA PEACOCK 12/10/1818 ST VIGEANS
WHITTON JEAN BUICK ROBERT WHITTON/JOANNA PEACOCK 26/05/1822 ARBIRLOT
Colin
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I have just re-read my original post and want to clarify that Thomas Robertson and Jean never lived together, but hen he died in 1879 he left everything to her in his will. Thereafter, Jean called herself Jean/Jane Robertson and was recorded on censuses as a widow.
When John Robertson married in 1885, his mother was recorded as Jean Robertson and father Thomas Robertson (deceased). I have a legal document from 1878 showing John's surname as Robertson - as you will note, that was a year before Thomas Robertson's death. I think it is a very strong possibility that Thomas Robertson was father of the son born 1855 and the daughter born 1858.
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Just an update: I have now found Jean/Jane in 1871 with her children. They all have surname Robertson. The census was wrongly indexed on Ancestry giving Jane's first name as "James"!
I have attached a clip from the 1871 census for Dundee St Clements. Jane's age is wrong, but place of birth Arbirlot is correct and the childrens' ages are correct.
I am now wondering if she might have adopted the surname Robertson as early as 1861, but I have not yet found any census that would fit.
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One possibility for Margaret in 1861:
Elizabeth Mcgavin 45 Head widow
Wm Mcgavin 20 seaman b. Dundee
Jean Mcgavin 18 weaver b. Dundee
Jessie Mcgavin 13 b. Dundee
Ann Mcgavin 7 b. Fife??
Margt Robertson 3 b. Fife??
Address Ireland's Lane, Dundee
I think this is one of those entries that you are best checking the original image for. Possibility for mistranscriptions.
Monica
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Thanks for that, Monica. That seems to be a possibility, though the place of birth raises a doubt.
After much searching, I believe I have found Jean/Jane in 1861. There is a Jean Johnston at 33 Dallfield Walk, living alone, born Arbroath and occupation Mangle Keeper. As she was at 48 Dallfield Walk in 1871 and occupation Mangler, I am pretty sure I have the right person.
Assuming your find of Margaret is correct, all I need to find is John. One would assume that both he and Margaret might be living in Dundee fairly close to Jean.
Thanks, Jim
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Jim, another guess for John in 1861:
Alexander Stalker 27 lab b. Crieff, Perthshire
Euphemia Stalker 27 b. Montago, Perthshire
Andrew Whittet 29 visitor lab. b. Dundee
John Robertson 6 b. Boarder b. Dundee
Catherine Stewart 15 Servant
James Clark 19 Lodger
Robert Speirs 19 Lodger
Address Private House, Little Dunkeld, Perthshire
I think Euphemia and Andrew Whittet may be siblings as it looks like Whittet was also her maiden name from her marriage entry in early 1861 before the census that year.
Monica
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As Colin mentioned earlier, there looks to be a surname variant between Whitton and Whittet. So maybe some connection within that family line explains why John could show as a boarder in that household for 1861.
Hard to say more really as it is all speculative.
Monica
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Here are Andrew and Euphemia with their parents in Kilspindie, Perthshire in 1841. At first glance Wiliam could be Jean Buick Whitton's brother, however there's a William baptised to David Whittot and Margaret Sinclair in Kilspindie in 1816 who would fit better
Wm Whittet 25
Isabella Whittet 30
Andrew Whittet 10
Euph Whittet 8
Elis Whittet 6
Mary Whittet 3
Plus, I'm not sure the John Robertson on 1861 with the Stalkers is the one we're looking for, given this baptism
Name John Robertson Whittet
Birth 27 Feb 1855 Dundee
Mother Euphemia Whittet
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Thanks for your comments. I too thought John Robertson at Dunkeld might be a possibility, but the find of John Robertson Whittet makes it unlikely. Also, with Jean and Margaret in Dundee, why would John be living so far away? There is no connection that I can see between William, Andrew and Euphemia Whittet and my Whitton family. Although Jean's father and siblings were called Whittet, all were known as Whitton by 1841. For information, my 'Whittets' were originally from Pitkindie and, earlier, from Kinnaird.
I have looked for John in 1861 under surname Robertson, Whitton or Johnston, but there is nothing that looks right. I suppose he may have been with another family and his surname wrongly transcribed as theirs. Also, we don't even know if he was originally known as John, as his birth registration had no first name!
I am pleased that by returning to this ancestor after a number of years, I have found with your help everything that was missing except for John's whereabouts in 1861. (There is still the question of what happened to Margaret after Jean's death in 1904, but I will start another thread on that ! :))
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One possibility for Margaret in 1861:
Elizabeth Mcgavin 45 Head widow
Wm Mcgavin 20 seaman b. Dundee
Jean Mcgavin 18 weaver b. Dundee
Jessie Mcgavin 13 b. Dundee
Ann Mcgavin 7 b. Fife??
Margt Robertson 3 b. Fife??
Address Ireland's Lane, Dundee
I think this is one of those entries that you are best checking the original image for. Possibility for mistranscriptions.
Monica
I have found this record indexed on Ancestry but I can't find the original image on SP using McGavin or Robertson.
As an aside, I am finding SP's indexing quite unreliable. I only found Jean's 1861 image after finding the index on Ancestry, then going back to SP I found that I had missed it in the past because they had her age as 58 instead of 38.
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Ignore the message above, I have now found the record on SP.
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As an aside, I am finding SP's indexing quite unreliable. I only found Jean's 1861 image after finding the index on Ancestry, then going back to SP I found that I had missed it in the past because they had her age as 58 instead of 38.
When you find errors of any kind in the indexing or transcriptions on SP, or if an image is poor or illegible, please use the orange "Report an issue" button above right on the image page to tell them about it so that it can be corrected or, in the case of images that are hard to decipher, re-scanned.
Unlike some other sites I could name, SP are very keen that all the information there should be accurate, and feedback from users is an important part of that.
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Yes, thanks Forfarian, I have notified SP.
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:)
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Yes, good advice. I do try always to verify/corroborate anything I find from other people. There is some rubbish on Ancestry trees, like people listing an ancestor's marriage when they would be only 10 years old. If anything doesn't look or sound right, it needs further investigation.
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.... (There is still the question of what happened to Margaret after Jean's death in 1904, but I will start another thread on that ! :))
Have you checked and discounted this death for Margaret, the same year mother died?
MAGGIE ROBERTSON
Age 43
Mother's maiden name WHITTON
1904
Ref 685 / 2 / 10
St Andrew (Edinburgh)
Added: Margaret showed as unmarried in 1901 and living with her mum in St Andrew's district in Edinburgh?
Monica
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Plus, I'm not sure the John Robertson on 1861 with the Stalkers is the one we're looking for, given this baptism
Name John Robertson Whittet
Birth 27 Feb 1855 Dundee
Mother Euphemia Whittet
Well done, Mabel, for sorting out that John's details :)
Have tried searching the transcripts for just John, with any surname, born in Dundee 1855/6 and nothing really jumping out for him except this entry as discussed above.
Monica
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I have a young woman in OHs tree, who disobeyed her parents and followed a young captain down from Scotland to London. He sailed away and drowned when his ship was sunk, leaving her all alone with a baby on the way. She did eventually find a job as a female servant and the census shows her with two other maid servants but no child. The three maids kept the young tot hidden in their servant quarters in the bottom drawer of a chest of drawers.
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Must have been so very hard to keep the little one quiet, Rena!
Inspired by a bit of lateral thinking today, I wonedred if Margaret had died before her mother, between 1901 and 1904. Sure enough, I found her death on SP on 1st January 1904, at Rose Street, Edinburgh. Once again, it gave her wrong age, but all the other details are correct.
Informant was her sister in law , Betsy, as with the death of jean later that year.
See from your new post that you checked that death and it was the right one for Margaret. Would explain why John Robertson's wife Betsy reported Jean's death that year.
Monica
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Yes, thanks Monica. I spent years wondering what happened to Margaret after her mother's death, but only today thought of looking BEFORE her death! Just shows how easy it is to become too focused on one idea.
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(There is still the question of what happened to Margaret after Jean's death in 1904, but I will start another thread on that ! :))
Please don't start a new thread about the same family. Keep it all in the same thread to avoid possible duplications of effort. Also it gets very confusing if information about the same people is spread over a multiplicity of threads.