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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Andy Grimley on Wednesday 01 November 23 11:06 GMT (UK)
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In late 1863,there was a much reported and controversial situation regarding the future religious pathway for three children,one of whom emerges some years later as my wifes great great grandmother.The children were offspring of a mixed religion family,with a Catholic father and Protestant mother,living largely in Dublin.The father,Micheal Maguire,was a poor iron moulder,who,by the Spring of 1863,was sadly dying of a heart condition.Although not a fervent Catholic,he sought a local priest,Fr.Keon,to deliver appropriate last rites.The priest enquired what plans Micheal had made for the future of his three very young children and encouraged the dying man to make a will ensuring that they were to be brought up as Catholics,which,over time,he duly did,witnessed by local people.This was ,allegedly,unbeknown to his wife,Jane,or her Protestant parents,in whose house they were resident.Jane,no doubt encouraged by others,appealed against the way in which the will had been achieved.In November/December 1863,the case attracted headlines and was front page news in a number of Irish newspapers,where verbatim versions of witness testimony are recorded.The case became notorious and divided opinion on religious lines as newspapers from different opinions testify.The decision was not concluded due to jury intransigence,where no conclusion could be reached,the jury dividing on sectarian lines and unable or unwilling to reach an objective decision.Subsequently,in early 1864,prominent Irish Catholics set up meetings and fund raising in respect of Fr.Keon,whose reputation was questioned because of circumstances surrounding Micheal Maguires will signing.
As is often the case,media interest declined and I can find no more reference to the outcome of the case.So...what happened to Sarah Maguire and her sisters?
Jane Maguire remarried a mariner,William Rodgers,in Liverpool in 1869.Jane gave birth to a daughter in London in 1871 and was living in Ramsgate,Kent on the 1871 Census.There are no records of any of the Maguire children living with her...Sarah remerges to marry George Edward Tolley in Chorlton on Medlock,Manchester in 1889.Significantly,resident in Chorlton at that time was Madeleine Lambert Rodgers(Janes daughter by William Rodgers).living with Margaret Gage,who was Janes sister who married a soldier,John Gage,in Ireland.
So,my query....what was the result of the Maguire case?What happened to the four year old Sarah and her family after this decision?Where might they have been in those intervening years?
I appreciate Irish records are limited in some aspects,but it is a mystery I have been looking to solve for some time.
Thank you,
Andy Grimley
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When did Michael Maguire actually die? (and can you confirm the spelling of his first name- is it Michael or Micheal?) There are several dates on FS....1864/65 with birthdates ranging from 1826 to 1828
What were the names and birthdates of the children?
You have mentioned Sarah.
Pl confirm the name of the wife as Jane, any idea of her maiden name?
And a big PS. Welcome to Rootschat!
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Is this the marriage of Michael & Jane? (Jane = Jane Lambert)??
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09449/5423572.pdf
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Sarah Maguire m George Edward Tolley in 1889, All Saints Manchester.
A witness was Emily A Maguire.
Baptisms
St Paul’s Dublin
23rd November 1853 - Georgina Maguire
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633660#page/103/mode/1up
5th March 1860 - Sarah
July 1862 Emily Ann
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Lancashire BMD shows a marriage:
John B Sheldon and Emily A Maguire 1890 Christ Church, Moss Side.
There are no online records that I can see so may/not be your Emily.
It seems that there was still contact with Jane’s family after her marriage.
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Presumably Georgina Maguire died.
There is another child, Eliza Jane b 1857, baptised Jan 1858 at St Paul’s.
A newspaper snippet, June 1863, mentions the three girls by name (no Georgina). There are several snippets, citing the case and this information:
Patrick Maguire and Patrick Gilligan v Jane Maguire
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3080877/3080879/8/
Newspaper report
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Thanks wilcoxon.
That implies that the children were sent to an institution, do you think?
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I looked for the will, but found nothing, it does say that 10 on the jury wanted the will to be annulled. If so then the Rev Keon wouldn't get them .
Yes it does state that Mum entrusted her children to a charitable organisation and the priest tried to get possession. 🤔
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The article late 1863 states the couple were married c 11 years previously but in a Protestant church. No clues at to where.
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See reply #2 for the marriage
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Good morning,
Many thanks for all the responses and the warm welcome to this site.In an attempt to answer all the responses,I will provide all the background which I have found thus far....
Michael Maguire and Jane Lambert were married on February 7 1853 in Dublin.The Lamberts lived at 3,Conyingham Road,apparently the gatehouse to Kilmainham Hospital.Jane's father,Charles,is described as a pensioner,although in other documents I have seen,he is known as "sexton".Michael Maguire was 33 when he married Jane(she was 17).He was an Iron moulder,so of John Maguire,a smith,with the family resident in Island Bridge.My knowledge of Dublin geography is limited,but I believe that Jane and Michael lived geographically close by,in the Pheonix Park area.The proximity of the British Army barracks perhaps indicates that John Maguire,Michael and Charles Lambert all had links to the military in supporting the necessary infrastructure ,or ,in Charles' case,as a military pensioner.
Anyway,I have found have concluded that given the age differential,the different religions of Jane and Michael and the difference in social standing of the families(from their addresses),their marriage may have been as a result of Jane's pregnancy,as Georgina was baptised at St Pauls,Arran Quay,in November 1853.I have found a subsequent baptism for Elizabeth in 1857,before Sarah in 1860 and Emily in May 1862.In the various newspaper reports of the will "trial",it was reported that they had had five children,three surviving and subject to the conclusions of the jury .Emily Ann Maguire was a witness to Sarah's wedding ,so she survived.....
Sarah was found on the 1861 Census in Elton,Bury,Lancashire,where her father had sought work.In later Census returns,she gives Elton as her place of birth.Jane had travelled to be with Michael,but soon returned to Dublin where she had left her other children in the care of her parents,who,it appears,were sending them to Protestant schools,which becomes significant evidence in the "trial".Michael soon returned to Dublin,in ill health.
It appears this ill health was a feature of Michael's time after his return.The family were living with the Lamberts and Michael became bed bound and declining,precipitating the well documented circumstances surrounding his wishes for his children's future.The documented newspaper reports of the "trial" make fascinating reading,as does the response to the verdict as various respected and eminent Catholic figures rall round Fr.Keon.It appears there was an earlier "trial" at Naas where they decoded that such a case exceeded their ability to reach such a potentially contentious conclusion and they escalated it up to a higher court.
Anyway,what happened to the Maguire children?What was the final result?I recall reading in one of the newspaper articles that,during the period of the "trial",the children were "safe in Newcastle2,but I cannot now find that reference or begin to appreciate its significance.As I stated earlier,Jane Maguire(nee Lambert) remarried.The family link was maintained as Sarah's wedding was witnessed by her sister,was held in the parish where her aunt Margeret lived and her step sister,Madeleine Lambert Rodgers,was living with Margaret and her husband in Chorlton on Medlock.I have discounted that the girls went to live with Margaret and her husband John Gage,because John's army record places both of them abroad in the 1860s.
Thank you to all of you who have responded...it is so encouraging to have such interest.
I hope this background may help to enlighten the queries raised in your replies.
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Copied from Cork Advertiser aug 1863.
OCR isn't good.
This was no action brought by the plaintiffs, being tho testamentary guardians named in the will of the lste Michael Maguire,of II end rick-street, x Kendrick,x in the city of Dublin, claiming the right to tbe custody of the three infant children of the deceased for the purpose of having them rearod and educated in the Roman Catholic faith, as directed by the will of their late father...
to remove the children from the Protestant School or Orphanage, where they had been placed by their mother (who is a Protestant) contrary to the wishes of tbe deceased father. ....
deceased replied that being very delicate himself, and the children being of tender age, be did not wish to create disturbance with the mother-in-law, in whose house he resided, but....
Mrs. Maguire examined by Mr. Byrne—ls the wife of the deceased; married in February, '53, in St. James s Protestant Church ; had five children, three only alive; deceased did not attend his religious duties for many years ; the children constantly attended Protestant schools -
Is this the same marriage as reply 2. I can't access the site to check.
The report states that Michael died about 10 May.
No children's names in this report
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Wilcoxon,
Judging by the date,this may refer to the earlier Naas hearing as the Dublin case was in November.It is indeed the same family.I think Jane and the Lamberts may have been advised to relocate the children to prevent any attempts to "snatch" them.It appears that Jane may have been receiveing much support and advice from Protestant groups......
Andy
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Yes it is the right marriage.
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The children are named Sarah, Emily and Eliza Jane in June 1863, Irish Times.
Sarah and Emily Ann later marry in Manchester.