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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: colee on Thursday 09 November 23 13:10 GMT (UK)

Title: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Thursday 09 November 23 13:10 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm researching a Judah Cohen who I believe may have been from Amsterdam. He lived in Hackney (Middlesex then) and in the early 1800s had a premises at Great St Helens in the City of London, with his brother Edward, listed as ship brokers. He was married to Esther. At the same time was another Judah Cohen whose brother was Hyman, who lived in London (buried in Herne Hill London) and had a lot of business (yes unfortunately slaves too) in the West Indies. He was married to Grace. I am trying to work out if they are related, so whether the one who was Esther's husband was from Amsterdam too. Any thoughts/help I'd be extremely grateful.
Very many thanks, Colee
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: ciderdrinker on Friday 10 November 23 15:16 GMT (UK)
Good Afternoon
There is a Judah Cohen who married at the Great Synagogue in 1804 to Esther Moses who looks to be your man. Info from Boyds marriage index.

(1818 Judah Cohen 17 Lemon St Whitechapel had 2 candlesticks taken .Trial Old Bailey against Abraham Moses) Is he yours?

Baptism for daughter Annette 5.11.1824 of 18 Lambs Conduit St merchant born 6th Jan at St Bride Fleet St.
A newspaper announcement on A* ,the details I can't access gives a death in 1834 of City Rerrace formerly Trafalgar Place . He is given as born 1782.
As you know the London Gazette has the brothers dissolving their partnership 1833.

1841 census Crown St  Shoreditch
Esther 53 Ind y
Diana 26 y
Eliza 24
Rebecca 20
However the 1861 census Grover St ,next to Carpenters Arms has an Esther Cohen widow Indep 72 born Holland. There is a possible death Dec 1868 Bethnal Green age 79
No sign of them 1851.
There is no sign of a Will for Judah but there is a Death Duty Record available from the National Archives.IR27/43
The other Judah dies 1838 Lambeth and does leave a PCC Will 1839 detailing the family.He is born 1768 in Amsterdam.He married Grace Gomes de Costa out in Jamacia 9.7.1794 .

But back to your family and Brother Edward
He married Mary Ann Girtin widow 14.9.1811 at St Mary Islington .They have a daughter Isabella Hesther 2.4.1813 of Nelson St and son Edward 4.4.1818 at the same church. Matilda 16.3.1815
 Nelson terrace .William born 31 Dec 1818 at Suffolk place gentleman. And Francis Charles 27.6.1824 Upper Street
His  Freedom of the City of London admission papers are interesting.
There are 2 documents bundled together.
His original admission 26 Feb 1816 as a member of the Guild of Scriveners and then again 50.8.1835. The latter is keen to state he is a Christian born in England and from Towert St Fowkes Buildings.
Fingers crossed this is the right Edward Cowen .He is 50 in 1835 and on both his father is given as Jacob Cohen of Whitechapel Road.
That's the last I seem to see of him.

So Jacob Cohens in london
1798 Land Redemption tax Portsaken Ebenezer Square
1808 witness at Old Bailey against Morgan Jones of stealing a pint pot off John Steward of the Coopers Arms.Jacob is a slop seller  at Rosemary Lane.

possible PCC Will 1815 Whitchapel Road Gentleman
To my wife Springze? Cohen £120 and her own wearing apparel in lieu of my dower
£25 to Great Synagogue in memory of late wife Esther
To present wife,s son Soloman £16 10 shillings
His picture and Esther's and a pair of pearl earrings to granddaughter Fanny Cohen
The rest to sons Judah Cohen,Edward Cohen and Godrey Alexander Cohen
Made 18th Nov 1815
The sons Exectors.

Marriage Grt Synagogue 1813 Sprinsi Leo

I can't see a granddaughter Fanny but everything else adds up.

What do you think?

Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Friday 10 November 23 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi ciderdrinker

Wow thank you so much for taking the time, what a huge cache of info you gathered so quickly! A lot of it is familiar, but there is some wonderful new stuff too.

It's extremely interesting that you found another brother, Godfrey Alexander. His daughter Anne was baptised as an adult in 1837, and the baptism record states that she was a Jewess by birth. It seems some of Godfrey's children ended up in Australia, there is quite a lot of info on Ancestry by that branch of the family.

Godfrey married his wife Frances in the Great Synagogue in London in 1808. One of the trees on Ancestry has Issachar Ha Cohen as Godfrey's father, it's not necessarily correct. But I've noticed 'Ha' added to quite a few of the older Cohen records I've seen, do you (or anyone!) know what it means/signifies?

I will go through all of your info carefully (thank you again SO much) and see where it leads, and what it is possible to prove at this point. What is interesting is that Matilda seems to be a family name. It is also in the 'other' Judah's family. And one of the Esthers you found (I think I saw that record too) seems to have been born in Holland. So the hypothesis that both Judahs came from Amsterdam I think still stands for now. What do you think?!

Best, Colee

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Friday 10 November 23 17:42 GMT (UK)
This is very interesting - an Old Bailey record which mentions Godfrey going to Mansel Street. This was the business address of the 'other' Judah and Hyman Cohen. It could be a coincidence that these 2 Judahs knew each other and did business together, it doesn't necessarily mean they were related, but I guess it's a strong possibility.

MR. COHEN. I went to the house of one Jeremiah Nathanson, in Mansel-street, Goodman's-fields, and there found a quantity of amber; he told me where he got it - I never made the prisoner any promise; I did not see him till he was examined.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Friday 10 November 23 18:12 GMT (UK)
Ooh and the Hirams Lodge, Freemasons register for 1805 (both Judah and Edward are members too but sadly it doesn't list their addresses - maybe the entry in another year will) shows that Godfrey Alexander Cohen and an Isaac Samuel both live at Mansell Street. So I think that irrevocably links the 2 Judahs? But does it prove they are related??
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 11 November 23 11:14 GMT (UK)
It really does look like this Jacob has to be Judah, Edward and Godfrey's father, which is highly significant. With his Hebrew name Issachar I wonder if it's possible to trace him further back, to Amsterdam maybe. Does anyone have any thoughts about what the name of his second wife seems to be, it's written on the PCC attached. Maybe she's Dutch, and maybe it's possible to find a marriage record of theirs.

Very many thanks for any ideas!
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 11 November 23 11:50 GMT (UK)
And I've just found another Judah Cohen, London furniture dealer, born in the next generation to Judahs 1 and 2, in 1819. He is on the 1861 census - wife Rachael, 4 daughters Esther, Sarah, Rachael, Sarah Ann.

Is he connected I wonder - can the name be that common?!

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: ciderdrinker on Saturday 11 November 23 13:03 GMT (UK)
Hello again
Yes I've seen an index of Jacob's second marriage.
Boys Marriage Index again
Great synagogue 1813
Jacob Cohen and Sprinsi Leo

I'm guessing she was a widow and already had a son Solloman from her first marriage.
Unfortunately I'm not getting anywhere with finding records of the Great synagogue on line.
So nothing extra there and births and burials in the Jewish Community are tough too.

As you say lots for the third brother Godfrey Alexander Cohen .
I hadn't thoughtt of Freemasons Records
The Moira lodge which must be in London has this 9 Feb 1806
Judah Cohen gentleman New Square
Edward  gentleman New Square
Godrey Alexander  gentleman New Square.

But it is the Addresses which strike a bell .They are all in a circle around Goodman Fields.
So we have Mansell St on the left with Judah and Hiram and on the right Lemon St with you Judah Cohen
South running parallel but below the Square was Rosemary Lane where Jacob appeared with his stolen candlesticks. And of course the Whitechapel Road is just North.
Prescot St is the South side of the Square where we have the 'other' Judah Cohen on the London  land tax records 1796-1805.

There is a Jacob Cohen in 1794 of Alie Street Goodman's Fields late Hackney Road linen draper on his 2nd and 3rd call for debt in the London Gazette. This is the North of Goodmans Fields connecting Mansell st and Lemon st.
And the Land Tax records give us Jacob Cohen Whitechapel New Martin St 1770-1786
                   1798 Ebenezer Square Portsaken C of L
                   1810 Somerset St Cof L
                   1817 Petticoat Lane C of L
Less sure of the C of L stuff

Edward 1813 Nelson Terrace Islington and 1817 Suffolk Place.

It all seems to fit with them knowing each other very well and it just seems to much of a coincidence that they aren't connected.
There is a tree on Genenet which doesn't look great but does give Judah and Hiram parents as
Mordicai Levie Cohen born Holland 1740-24.8.1830 London and
Rachel bat Coenrad Blits 1732-1810 London from Amsterdam.
On it Mordicai has siblings Soloman Levi,Joel and JACOB.

It would be about the right time frame but there are no dates.
The area the family are supposedly from is Rousel de Mierden Noord Brabant.

I've tried the main Dutch website but I can't find either family but obviously I don't speak Dutch .

But surely there has to be a connection.


Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Saturday 11 November 23 17:09 GMT (UK)
FYI
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 11 November 23 17:21 GMT (UK)
That's FASCINATING TreeSpirit, I hope it's the same Jacob but the dates fit!!

And Ciderdrinker, also absolutely wonderful help again, thank you so much :) How brilliant to look at the geography (seems so obvious now) to connect everyone. It was also interesting to look at the addresses of the other members of the Moira Lodge, there were a big number from Mansell St and Prescot St.

I am sure you're right that it is too much of a coincidence that they're not related, but I guess the definitive answers now may indeed lie in the Dutch records which I may attempt to look at.

I have sent a query to Synagogue Scribes about that 1813 marriage, as I guess Leo Sprinsi (this must be the name in Jacob's PCC, ie Sprinzi or Sprinsi) wasn't the bride, maybe her father. Maybe the original will show what her first name was.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Saturday 11 November 23 17:44 GMT (UK)
A newspaper announcement on A* ,the details I can't access gives a death in 1834 of City Rerrace formerly Trafalgar Place . He is given as born 1782.

The Times - Thursday, Aug. 7, 1834
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 11 November 23 17:56 GMT (UK)
MARVELLOUS!

Very definitely born in 1782 (so good to see the actual original source thank you) - I had to look up apoplexy - guess it could mean a number of things, but could have been a stroke. He was young :(

And the fact it was in The Times I guess also indicates that he must have had some standing, although it's amazing what used to get in the paper then..
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 11 November 23 19:31 GMT (UK)
Another very interesting publishing connection:

Godfrey Alexander Cohen and Frances Jonas' daughter Esther (who was born in 1812) was married to Joseph Moses Levy who was the proprietor of the Sunday Times then launched the Daily Telegraph in 1855 (It had briefly been set up as the Daily Telegraph and Courier by Arthur Sleigh but didn't succeed so Joseph who had been doing the printing of it, took it over). Their son Edward was the editor and became a baron.

Joseph Moses Levy's father was Moses Lionel Levy who died in 1830 at Goodmans Fields :)
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: ciderdrinker on Tuesday 14 November 23 12:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Me Again
Just managed to find a few newspaper details
London Evening Standard
11 March 1829 Mr Alterman A Joseph  of Devonport married Sarah Cohen second daughter of Judah Cohen esquire Trafalgar Place West Hackney Road

Wednesday last  by Rev Oppenheimer Mr JC Lyons Slater St married Miss Cohen daughter of Judah Cohen Esquire  Hackney London
The Albion 11.6.1832

Just in case you don't have them

Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 14 November 23 14:00 GMT (UK)
Amazing, thank you so much Ciderdrinker, I didn't have either of those 2 daughters. That's very exciting. I've located Sarah and husband Joseph in the records, I can't see yet which daughter married JC Lyons but I'm sure it'll come to light quite easily. That's such brilliant new information :) I had just started to stall slightly, but you've jump-started it again!!

Other interesting things in the meantime I've discovered through Synagogue Scribes:

The 2nd marriage record of Jacob Issachar Cohen showed that the bride's name was Sprinsi (Shprintsa being her Hebrew name) her family name was Leo and she was the widow of Doctor Leib Kassel (or Cassel). She married Jacob Cohen on 9 Apr 1813 at The Great Synagogue in London.

Jacob's father's Hebrew name was Yehuda (Judah) Cohen and he was a privileged member of the Synagogue (I've copied that across, I'm not sure what it means but I've asked!). So that all chimes with the theory that the 2 Judahs were cousins, named after their grandfather.

Godfrey's Hebrew name was Gotchlik, I guess that's where Godfrey comes from (I thought it was a slightly odd non-Jewish sounding name). And one of his daughters Esther Eliyakum Goetshlik Cohen also had it in her name.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 16:36 GMT (UK)
Jacob's father's Hebrew name was Yehuda (Judah) Cohen and he was a privileged member of the Synagogue (I've copied that across, I'm not sure what it means but I've asked!). So that all chimes with the theory that the 2 Judahs were cousins, named after their grandfather.


I’m not convinced yet that the 2 Judah’s shared the same grandfather.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_Cohen the other Judah’s grandparents have to be the following persons: https://www.dutchjewry.org/genealogy/ashkenazi/392.shtml 
i.e. one of their sons would have to be the father of your Judah, but there is no Issachar/Jacob listed.

Could it be that your Judah’s ancestors might have originated from Eastern Europe (based on a printing history)?

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 14 November 23 17:01 GMT (UK)
Thank you TreeSpirit for your continued help and interest. Soo good to probe and want to see proof to be satisfied, I do too!!

I had read the Wiki page before, but not the Dutch ancestry site. Yes Jacob isn't listed as one of the main sons, but I noticed that on Mordechai's marriage info it does mention a brother Jacob as witness, I'm not sure whether that might be the Joseph or a separate son, or why he isn't in the main list?

Mordechai Levie Cohen, birth 1728 Amsterdam
Married 3 Sep 1756 Amsterdam, dtb 735/80; witn.groom: brother Jacob Levie Cohen; witn.bride: m.Roosje Isaac.

It is interesting that Joel's record mentions an Alexander as guardian:guardian [father's cousin] Alexander Levie - ie another family name (Godfrey Alexander).

And I wonder if the 'Levie' here is the 'L' in Judah's son Edward's name.

There is also the very interesting excerpt you found on Jacob bringing Dutch typesetters from Amsterdam.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 17:12 GMT (UK)
There is also the very interesting excerpt you found on Jacob bringing Dutch typesetters from Amsterdam.

But that doesn't prove automatically that he was Dutch too...

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 14 November 23 17:20 GMT (UK)
There is quite a big gap between the births of these 2 sons, in 1719 and 1724 - perhaps Jacob was born then:

4) Salomon Levie Cohen, birth 1719 Amsterdam
Married 1745 Amsterdam, dtb 727/465; witn.groom: brother Joel Levie Cohen; witn.bride: cousin Spranke Engeland. to:
Branca Brendele Levie, birth 1720 Maastricht, died 16 Feb 1804 Amsterdam, Muiderberg cemetery: widow of Zalman ben Leib Cohen-Kroit.

5) Vrouwtje Levie Cohen, birth 1724 Amsterdam
Married 1743 Amsterdam, dtb 726/401; witn.groom: f.Zacharias Mozes; witn.bride: guardian MozesGompert. to:
Salomon Zacharias, birth 1720 London
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 17:41 GMT (UK)
Hmmm ...The 1760 Amsterdam will of Mordechai's grandfather Mozes Gompert (de Jong) mentions all those kids and also that Mordechai and his sister Vrouwtje are both deceased. Mordechai has left minor 1 (!) child and Vrouwtje has left various children

It is clear that something fishy is going on here. Before we were dealing with 2 Judah's, but I think that we might also be dealing with 2 separate Mordechai's
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 14 November 23 17:56 GMT (UK)
Great hunting TreeSpirit :) But oh no.. more confusion!!

Also the dates are interesting - their mother Sara Tserle Ephraim Moshe-Gumprich, was born in 1696 in Amsterdam and died in 1734 in Amsterdam.

But husband Levie Judaleib Mordechai Cohen, their father, didn't die until 1739, so maybe he had Jacob with another wife, say in late 1730s, and even maybe also the other 'original' Mordechai. It would make sense then that they were the 2 brothers that went to London as they weren't the full siblings of the rest. However, I had Jacob and Mordechai as born in the 1940s (not proved though).
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 18:04 GMT (UK)
I'm still struggling thru this 1742 document but apparently Jacob = Koppel ... i.e. the youngest child
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 18:08 GMT (UK)
But there is still the issue that this Mordechai dies and leaves one minor child, while we know that the other Mordechai had (at least?)3 sons, so they can't be the same person
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 14 November 23 18:26 GMT (UK)
I'm still struggling thru this 1742 document but apparently Jacob = Koppel ... i.e. the youngest child

genius
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Tuesday 14 November 23 18:55 GMT (UK)

But "Koppel" is not "Issachar".
The more I'm trying to decipher these old documents the more confused I get. And then there is all the stuff for other people with the same names as well
Currently I'm still very undecided abt everyone's ancestry ...

 :-\ :-\ :-\

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Wednesday 15 November 23 18:38 GMT (UK)
Yes that's very true indeed :( it's all too easy to get carried away and want to fit the info to an emerging narrative. Thank you SO much for your help so far. I'm afraid I haven't been able to crack the Dutch documents yet.. but maybe other records from the wider family will bring more certainty to the inner muddy bit :)

Having said that, on another issue of doubles...

So it turns out that (thank you again for the clipping ciderdrinker) JC Lyons who married Miss Cohen (Judah's daughter) in 1832 was a Joseph Lyons, his wife was Esther Cohen born in 1813 according to census info. Joseph was born in Portsmouth and they had children in Manchester, Liverpool, Hull.

7 children: Theresa 1834, Julius 1838, Elizabeth 1841, Fanny 1842, Laura 1844, Victoria 1846 and Rebecca 1849.

But I suppose there's a problem then in that Esther Cohen born in 1813 would be (if correct) the daughter of 'my' Judah Cohen and Esther which would be unusual as in Jewish tradition a child wouldn't normally be named after a living relative. Esther Lyons was back in London by the 1881 census as a widow, with 2 of her daughters Theresa and Victoria and a grandson.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: SteveJaron on Wednesday 22 November 23 03:44 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Is this the Judah Cohen you are looking at? https://www.geni.com/people/Judah-Cohen/6000000032523141928

I am Judah's second cousin 8 times removed. 

I came across this post when I was searching for something related as I am a distant cousin of this particular Judah Cohen. I have not read the whole thread yet but I am wondering if you are also a relative or just a researcher?  On Geni I have come across to other related researchers to Judah and his descendants. I am happy to discuss further as I have been working on his ancestors and their descendants for quite a while now.

-Steve
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Thursday 14 December 23 20:02 GMT (UK)
Hi

Thanks Steve - that is the potential relative of the Judah I'm focused on (as I mentioned in my DM back in November).

I don't suppose you (or anyone?) knows how to access any records in Kingston, Jamaica.. So another interesting record I came across was a newspaper announcement from 1825 (attached) about the death of the eldest son of Whitechapel Rd Judah, Asker Judah Cohen. Maybe there are records in Kingston which provide info about why he was there and any other family info.

Thank you for any more thoughts - yes I'm still going on this one.. also waiting for GEDmatch info to see if the 2 sides of the family are related :)
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Saturday 24 February 24 11:06 GMT (UK)
So I eventually tracked down Judah's death duty info from the National Archives, but I'm not proficient enough with that register's info to be able to really understand the significance of what it's saying. I will attach here the link, and would really appreciate any help in interpreting it. Very many thanks in advance for any help.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopy/RC6934670-04fe0476-b5fb-4b59-8e71-815dd9e633aa

but in case that doesn't work it says:

Sum sworn under: £200

Esther Cohen ('gone away'), under the column 'kindred' I think it says Relief and 3 separate dates

3 l 4 May/37
4 l 5 Apr/38
5 l 12 May/39

then I think 'discharged' 27/7 maybe 39? (ie 27 July 1839?).

Or I could attach a screenshot of it if that helps.

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Friday 01 March 24 14:49 GMT (UK)
so.. interestingly this is what it all means:

not relief but relict, which means widow; Judah’s estate was valued at under £200; and the 3 dates given with an 'l' next to them mean letters that were sent to Esther the widow on those dates. Finally the reference ‘Lr. 2717/39 is to a letter received by the Stamp Office in 1839 (which sadly won't exist anymore), possibly in response to the last letter sent to the address at City Road.

So such is the nature of this sort of research, a rather long drawn out process of getting the death duty reveals not a lot. But of course in a sense the revealing of not a lot is significant in itself. It confirms that Esther moved after Judah's death, and I think we found her possibly elsewhere on a census, so that fits with that.

What I have now also discovered though is that Judah's nephew Edward was the original merchant who with Greverus Kleinwort set up the predecessor to Kleinwort Benson, when it was Kleinwort Cohen. He left a rather large fortune of £258,000, and no direct descendants to pass it on to as he didn't marry or have children as far as I have worked out. I have put in an order to view the will in Kew, so that should be interesting!
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: thimblewheel on Thursday 23 May 24 05:56 BST (UK)
Hello! I followed this thread on Judah and Edward Cohen with great interest. I'm looking for an ancestor, John Cohen, who was from England and settled in Jamaica and then Colombia in the early 1800s. Judah and Edward Cohen are some of the few British Cohens I found with business ties to Colombia -- they were agents for ships sailing to Cartagena and Santa Marta, as seen in the attached newspaper ad.

I posted a separate thread about another 19th-century English Cohen family with ties to Jamaica:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=882932.new#new

Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Monday 27 May 24 18:40 BST (UK)
Hi Thimblewheel

Fascinating to read your thread about John Cohen and Catherine Cohen/Knight. So there were a few branches of European Cohens that came to London, it could well be that John is somehow connected the Judah/Edward branch. There was another one, in fact another Judah Cohen who had a brother Hyman and they were very involved in the sugar (read also slave) trade in the Caribbean. I'm trying to map them all out and see if they're related.

I was actually going to post a fresh question about this family, as I have come across a pretty mysterious newspaper article which might shed some light on the origins of the family. However, since I am replying to you here anyway, I'll post the newspaper article here and see what happens.

The more I read this article the more I think it cryptically relates to Issachar/Jacob, who was Judah and Edward's father, and points to him coming from Copenhagen. Even though the article is written in the 1820s after Issachar's death (1815), there are just so many coincidences in it: textiles salesman in Rosemary Lane, his name Issachar Cohen, the link with Dr Leo (I think Issachar married Dr Leo's widow after his death). The article seems completely fantastical, but I think I could validate some of the details in it (eg existence of an Alexander Donaldson at the right epoque, ie before Issachar's death). I have tried to attach it but I had to reduce the size to keep within the size limit.

Is this all wishful thinking by me? Or will I actually be able to pinpoint Issachar's birth in Copenhagen? Has anyone got any ideas? I would be unbelievably grateful!
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Monday 27 May 24 18:55 BST (UK)
I don't think the pdf is clear enough to read, so I'll try to post another version that isn't a pdf. In the meantime, here is the direct link to Find my past for anyone interested that has access:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0000612%2F18211020&page=4&article=022&stringtohighlight=dr+leo+st+mary+axe
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Monday 27 May 24 19:04 BST (UK)
Maybe this version is better. The author of the article may have been a doctor, which could account for him being so irked. I wonder if the letter mentioned in the article, that Dr Leo wrote to the Royal College of Physicians to seek admission for Issachar is hidden away in the archives. It would make great reading if it exists. I may have to make some enquiries.

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: thimblewheel on Tuesday 28 May 24 05:49 BST (UK)
Newspapers of the time had an odd way of sharing the "news." I found an unredacted version of the story, it's Dr. William Brodum, birth name Issachar bar Ber Ha'Kohen (Issachar son of Ber Cohen), according to the Hebrew:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ba7a/ff095e2bc308d6e3342b08f1bec396595ae4.pdf
"Ber" is a common Yiddish name, meaning Bear, equivalent to the Hebrew "Dov."

The article is “Of Quacks and Empiricism,” which first appeared in The London Medical and Physical Journal, Volume 13. Jan. to Jun. 1805. This blog post elaborates, Dr. Brodum was an infamous quack doctor of the time:
https://www.mimimatthews.com/2015/10/12/aphrodisiacs-elixirs-and-dr-brodums-restorative-nervous-cordial
The degree to which the article makes Jewish identity seem shifty (while also claiming to not be saying that) is pretty gross. 

I see your other Jacob Issachar Cohen was the son of Judah. I sympathize, it's hard to find a Cohen in a haystack of Cohens!
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 08:32 BST (UK)
Wow Thimblewheel, how amazing that you found the original unredacted version! (how did you find it out of interest?!).

The date of 1805 places it in 'my' Issachar's lifetime. The mentions of Rosemary Lane, Dr Leo (Issachar married his widow) and the name Issachar (there can't have been that many around Rosemary Lane) are quite tantalising coincidences. But at the same time there is no mention of the name Jacob (which 'my' Issachar) was definitely known as. So maybe it is wishful thinking on my part. He may be a relative I guess, so it's still worth looking at the Copenhagen link.

Does anyone know about Copenhagen records?
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: thimblewheel on Tuesday 28 May 24 12:27 BST (UK)
Glad to help! I googled {{"dr williams" Issachar cohen}}

I have no clue about Danish records, but JewishGen.org is a great place to start, they usually have country-specific resources.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 12:52 BST (UK)
Thank you Thimblewheel.

Looking at the original again, it says Issachar Bear Cohen, alias Issachar son of Cohen - maybe there is confusion between Ben and Bear...

Good idea - I'll post the Hebrew equivalent on the discussion part of the JewishGen site, as you say it's an invaluable resource (I've used it often) - or maybe someone on here can help, but I'll post it in both places just in case. It would be good to check properly what the Hebrew says.

For your Cohen research, have you looked at Synagogue Scribes? I find the site a little hard to navigate, but it does have a lot of useful information. Part of the problem with 1700s/early 1800s British Jewish research I think is that the Hebrew/synagogue records are less accessible and mostly in Hebrew. I have had a look at some at the London Metropolitan Archives but a lot of it is in Hebrew. I may at some point have to enlist some help from a Hebrew/British Jewish history expert.

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: thimblewheel on Tuesday 28 May 24 13:02 BST (UK)
Just to be clear, that Hebrew says Issachar bar [son of] Ber [father's name] Ha'Kohen [the Priest, meaning of the Kohen priestly caste].

"bar" is the Aramaic equivalent of "ben." Issachar bar Ber = Issachar ben Ber

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 13:16 BST (UK)
Right, brilliant ok thank you, yes you probably said that before. Lucky you if you're able to read Hebrew :)

I don't think a 'Ber' or 'son of Ber' are in the Synagogue Scribes lists. There are no Ber or Bears in the UK part of JewishGen, although it comes up with some people called 'Barry' and 'Barnet'. I wonder what his 'Given name' would have been.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 13:19 BST (UK)
...although if the article is right, and Issachar did convert or change his name, I guess he might not be in the Jewish records. I wonder under what name he is buried. And again, if he did earn a lot of money as the article suggests, if he didn't lose it all, he might have left a will. Then of course there is the question of whether he married and had children.
Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 13:36 BST (UK)
More information about William Brodum/Issachar Cohen:

https://holeousia.com/time-passes-listen/folk-worth-talking-about/dr-william-brodum/

He apparently died in 1824, his address was Great Coram Street. So it definitely isn't 'my' guy, who lived in Whitechapel Road and died in 1815.

The most intriguing connection with 'my' guy still remains this 'Dr Leo' mentioned in the article. It appears both Issachars knew him. But I haven't been able to find out anything about him. He is mentioned in Synagogue Scribes as the first husband of Sprinsi Leo who married 'my' Issachar after he died. This is the info in Sprinsi's record on her marriage with Issachar in 1813:

LEO
Forenames   Sprinsi
Hebrew Name   Shprintsa (widow of the Doctor Leib Kassel (Casse

Title: Re: Judah Cohen from AMSTERDAM in mid 1700s/early 1800s
Post by: colee on Tuesday 28 May 24 14:11 BST (UK)
It seems William de Brodam/Issachar had a wife Cecilia who died in 1829: