RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: maggbill on Wednesday 22 November 23 07:36 GMT (UK)
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Embarrassed to say have no knowledge of SA resources - am expatriate Scot, having done years of Scottish/Irish ancestors and spoiled with "Scotlandspeople" pay as you go system. Wanting to help a South Australian friend start her Australian family - know the obvious general steps - though access to recent family certs etc not easy. Without Ancest.. membership - are there any other ways of accessing records apart from what looks like expensive BMD Government site? Have got some good info with "Find a Grave" - Might try "Trove" - but want BMD's really - without paying a fortune! Any hints anyone?
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Find My Past has some good South Australian records if already a member.
Genealogy SA has an online database, but less free information given in the indexes than before without paying.
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
Sorry, I am modifying, Genealogy SA is the next best thing to an online BDM database which sadly we do not have with our registration office.
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Adelaide Cemeteries Index:
https://aca.sa.gov.au/records/
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Transcription information:
https://genealogysa.org.au/component/hikashop/product/5-transcription
While paid, may still be handy to know.
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There is also the State Records of South Australia
https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/
and familysearch has some SA records -eg, in the past I have used the School Admissisons Register:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2862204
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And of course the National Archives could also be of use:
https://www.naa.gov.au/
You should also look at the SA Resources here, though Nova has given you the main ones already :) :
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0
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I have the SA BDM indexes on CD so if you need any information just ask...always happy to help.
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Some of these links may be broken but there may be something there to help you.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0
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Wow Everyone,
Got caught up with other things - and as always Rootschatters have come to the fore! Thanks everyone for the hints - and will follow them up within next couple of days. Cheers!!! Sending you all a bit of nice spring sunshine!
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Trove newspapers are a good resource.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers
You may like to enlist the help of Rootschatters in your searches.
Judith
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Hi CAndo,
thank you for the offer re the BMD indexes you have on CD. Not sure what periods they cover and if the story is too vague???
Am looking for BMD's for "Hilda May Welch Noble". Said to be born in 1891 - ? location, Adelaide or elsewhere in SA. - A story gives her maiden name (???) as "Hilda May Smith" - she married Francis Harmer Smith some time in Adelaide before 1918. She then married William Henry Noble in 1937. Her death was 20th November 1980 and she is buried at Hindmarsh Cemetery Hindmarsh under the name "Hilda May Welch Noble". No idea where this "Welch" name comes from - Could it be her actual maiden surname? Any ideas of help would be seriously appreciated.
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You may have seen Francis Harmer SMITH's military file. His will is on the file (page 40) and in it he says his wife's mother is Margaret TAYLOR.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1773724
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Margaret Agnes SMITH, daughter of Francis Harmon SMITH birth was registered in 1912 in Adelaide ( 891/330).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ssn/
So presumably Francis and Hilda were married before 1912.
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Here's their marriage - Francis Harmer SMITH and Hilda May WELCH at Adelaide in 1912 (251/725).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sso/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ssp/
Modified to add:
According to a transcription on Ancestry, they married 31 May 1912; his father was Francis SMITH, her's was John WELCH.
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Francis Harmer SMITH birth registered in 1888 in Richmond, Victoria (32819 / 1888). Parents Francis SMITH and Agnes (nee BISSETT).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ssq/
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I can't find a suitable birth for Hilda May WELCH (yet), though there is this mention of an 11 year old Hilda WELCH in 1901 (birth day greetings for 7 April, of Brown St)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/207943767 (towards the bottom)
Birthday greetings also in 1902:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/162352105
And 1903:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/207972017
And a few other mentions on trove - just a possibility. :-\
Modified to add:
Probably ignore the above, she is most likely Hilda Jane WELCH whose birth was registered in Adelaide in 1890, father - James Samuel WELCH.
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Hi everyone again - and Maddy!
Great - lots of avenues to follow.... Various possibilities - So - I know we should never presume, but maybe Hilda May's maiden name was Welch.... Will be seeing my friend tomorrow - so she is already amazed at what can be found! Hey, I think I might really get into Australian records now! Thank you all again - lots still to work on - but will get back with updates.
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For interest, Hilda May NOBLE and William Henry NOBLE are on various electoral rolls at 30 East St, Torrensville (also Kenneth George NOBLE and Frank NOBLE at the same address, presumably William's sons from a previous marriage - their birth registrations can be found on Genealogy SA).
A death and funeral notice for Margaret TAYLOR aged 76, funeral leaving "her daughter's residence 30 East Street Torrensville" in 1939. Margaret was the wife of Thomas Carney TAYLOR.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131922146
Thomas Carney TAYLOR died 1921, registered in Hindmarsh (443/150) aged 62 according to cemetery records.
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Presumably William Henry's first wife, Ethel Margaret, death notice (same address as above) in 1936:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47749452 (1st column, bottom third)
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Not having much luck finding a birth for Hilda May, or her mother's marriage to Thomas Carney TAYLOR.
Meant to add this obituary of Francis Harmer SMITH yesterday, there are a few eg:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/124551971
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Hiya Maddy
Can you clarify where I might be able to access the historical SA electoral rolls online - Free? Have looked at links from Electoral commission to State Library, but State Lib. don't appear to have them online? Now looking to see if i can find Hilda May Smith around 1927/28/29 on electoral roll. Not sure at all where she was living - but would definitely be in the Adelaide/suburban areas. Cheers....
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Sorry, I should have said, the electoral rolls are on Ancestry. They are also available at the South Australian State Library, however not online.
I also found this - in the Sands Directory for 1919 - Thomas TAYLOR, bootmaker and Hilda M SMITH at 10 Frederick Pl off Sturt St (the same address as on Francis's war record.
https://images.slsa.sa.gov.au/almanacsanddirectories/1919sandsandmc/91/#zoom=z
Modified to add:
You can search the Sands Directorys here:
https://guides.slsa.sa.gov.au/c.php?g=410329&p=6950224
(However I find the search facility a bit clunky, it certainly helps if you know what you are looking for.)
Here is William Henry NOBLE in 1938 at 30 East St, Torrensville
https://images.slsa.sa.gov.au/almanacsanddirectories/1938sandsandmc/1440/#zoom=z
(bottom of first column)
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Mrs M TAYLOR (Margaret TAYLOR) appears in the Sands Directory at 14 Frederick Pl off Sturt ST from 1922 - 1927. Hilda May SMITH is harder to find as there are quite a few Mrs H SMITH etc, and she doesn't appear to be in the Directory with her mother, or at least not listed.
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Here is a death notice for Thomas Carney TAYLOR, it's a bit hard to read:
"TAYLOR - On the 8th of January, at his daughter's (Mrs. F H Smith) residence, Rowell Crescent, Kilkenny, Thomas Carney, aged 62, beloved husband of Margaret Taylor, late 173 Sturt St. R.I.P."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/89658665 (last column, middle, pg 27)
173 Sturt St is another address on Francis Harmer SMITH's war record.
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Of interest - There is a birth notice on 1 May 1920 for a child of H TAYLOR and Annie (nee NAISBIT) of the same address as above - 173 Sturt St.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/37515343 (1st column, bottom)
Harold TAYLOR married Annie May NAISBIT in 1919 registered at Norwood (279/313). A possibility - there is a birth for a Harold TAYLOR son of Thomas TAYLOR in 1895 in Adelaide (570/320). A brother /half brother of Hilda May? :-\
His army record (attestation Dec 1914) has the same address as Francis Harmer SMITH - Frederick Place off Sturt St. Father is Thomas TAYLOR
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Gallery151/dist/JGalleryViewer.aspx?B=1930201&S=1&N=90&R=0#/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=1930201&T=P&S=1
(note on page 10 in red says mother is Margaret TAYLOR)
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Here is Harold TAYLOR's school enrolment, father is Thomas TAYLOR, bootmaker, of 181 Sturt St.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSV8-KSDD?cc=2862204&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPHG-9KPG
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Ok, finally found what looks like Hilda's school enrolment for 1902, father Thomas TAYLOR, bootmaker, 148 Sturt St. Her birth date is given as 11 August 1890
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSV8-K91M?cc=2862204&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPH4-92XZ
Still can't find a birth record, or an explanation why her name is WELCH on her marriage, with father "John WELCH".
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In the registration for Hilda May SMITH marriage to William Henry NOBLE on 09-Oct-1937, her father's name is recorded as Patrick John WELCH. (GenealogySA)
In the same registration her age is recorded as 47 and her marital status as widowed.
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Of interest - There is a birth notice on 1 May 1920 for a child of H TAYLOR and Annie (nee NAISBIT) of the same address as above - 173 Sturt St.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/37515343 (1st column, bottom)
Harold TAYLOR married Annie May NAISBIT in 1919 registered at Norwood (279/313). A possibility - there is a birth for a Harold TAYLOR son of Thomas TAYLOR in 1895 in Adelaide (570/320). A brother /half brother of Hilda May? :-\
His army record (attestation Dec 1914) has the same address as Francis Harmer SMITH - Frederick Place off Sturt St. Father is Thomas TAYLOR
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Gallery151/dist/JGalleryViewer.aspx?B=1930201&S=1&N=90&R=0#/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=1930201&T=P&S=1
(note on page 10 in red says mother is Margaret TAYLOR)
Birth registration for Harold TAYLOR born 1895:
urname: TAYLOR
Given Names: Harold
Date of Birth: 30-Aug-1895
Gender: M
Father: Thomas TAYLOR
Mother: Maggie STOKES
Birth Residence: Adelaide
District: Adelaide
Book/Page: 570/320
Marriage registered for Thomas TAYLOR and Maggie STOKES :
Groom Surname: TAYLOR
Groom Given Names: Thomas
Bride Surname: STOKES
Bride Given Names: Maggie
Marriage Date: 25-Jun-1889
Marriage Place: Res of Rev E G Day Adelaide
Groom Age: 28
Groom Marital Status: S
Groom Father: George TAYLOR
Bride Age: 24
Bride Marital Status: S
Bride Father: Patrick STOKES
District: Adelaide
Book/Page: 159/854
Given that all of Hilda May's BDM registrations found in GenealogySA show her maiden name as WELCH, it looks as if she was conceived out of wedlock.
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That's great information seeking0.
Margaret STOKES had at least one illegitimate child - this one died in 1881:
"DEATH OF AN INFANT- The City Coroner will hold an inquest at the Crown Inn, Currie-street, this afternoon, on the body of an illegitimate male child of Margaret Stokes, daughter of Patrick Stokes, labourer, of Solomon-street, which died soon after it's birth on the evening of August 30."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197759563
Further details:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208193814
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47088148/4001945 (page 5, last column, middle)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208194289
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A few other mentions of Margaret STOKES, presumably the same girl.
1882 - charged with assault https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33629549
1888 - charged with assault https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204447492
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Patrick STOKES sounds like an interesting man. There are many many items on trove mentioning him, in trouble with the law for offensive language, assault, assaulting his wife etc. Also he was involved in the Trade Union movement. Many glowing reports about his work for the movement, I thought at first there must have been 2 men of the same name, but no - just the one. His obituary mentions wife Mary and 3 daughters, and address - the same as in the case of the inquest of Margaret's child in 1881.
death notice of Mary STOKES 1915:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5455076
obituary for Patrick STOKES 1910 (there are a few):
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5220314
article with photo about Patrick 1896:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/124813211
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Hi Maddy and Seeking0,
Wow - lots of info - Sorry have been busy last few days.... will check it all out and work on it with my friend. Amazing - Trove really is a great resource - though of course Rootschat and all of you lot are just brilliant!
Thanks again
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I meant to add yesterday that there are a few possibilities for children of Margaret STOKES on the SA genealogy search. No Hilda May that I could see, though there is an Ethel May.
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Margaret TAYLOR is buried at West Terrace Cemetery https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/166264633/margaret-taylor in the same grave as her father Patrick STOKES https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/166145811/patrick-stokes (burial locations from ACA records https://aca.sa.gov.au/Records/)
Margaret is not named on the headstone but being buried in the same grave is further evidence to connect them.
What connects this particular Margaret TAYLOR to Hilda NOBLE is Margaret's death notice, which gives her daughter's address as 30 East Street, Torrensville, being the same address given in the death notice for William Henry NOBLE's first wife a few years earlier http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article55914428
Also, Margaret and Patrick were Catholic (buried in the Old Catholic section of WTC).
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Margaret Agnes SMITH, daughter of Francis Harmon SMITH birth was registered in 1912 in Adelaide ( 891/330).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ssn/
So presumably Francis and Hilda were married before 1912.
... and mother Hilda May WELCH
Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Margaret Agnes
Date of Birth: 11-Aug-1912
Gender: F
Father: Francis Harmon SMITH
Mother: Hilda May WELCH
Birth Residence: Adelaide
District: Adelaide
Book/Page: 891/330