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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: steviepeas on Thursday 28 December 23 14:35 GMT (UK)
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I have a reference to the Irish Police force of 1833/34 policing in the area of New Inn, Tipperary, under the command of Edward Morton Sergeant in the Irish Constabulary. the reference appears in the Conmel Herald where he is mentioned in the investigations of several incidences, where the Police Office at New Inn seems to be the local HQ in 1833/34. Does anyone have access to records of his service to assist me please.
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You've posted in IRELAND RESOURCES which is for resources not queries.
I have asked a moderator to move your request to the Ireland General board where you might find an answer.
If you feel that this thread should go on a County sub-board, just click on 'Report to moderator' and ask for it to be moved.
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Thanks, Kiltaglassan, Apologies
Moderator comment: now relocated :)
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The service records for the Royal Irish Constabulary (and its forerunner the Irish Constabulary) from 1816 to 1922 are on subscription websites Ancestry and FindMyPast. Records can be searched free but a subscription must be purchased to view and save them.
Ancestry
Ireland, The Royal Irish Constabulary 1816-1921
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/6087/
FindMyPast
Ireland, Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records 1816-1922
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/ireland-royal-irish-constabulary-service-records-1816-1922
For Edward Morton, here are his potential service numbers (via FindMyPast)-
First name(s) Last name Event year Service number Place Document type
Edwd Morton 1816 30167 — General Register - Index, Vol 1
Edwd Morton 1816 14025 — General Register - Index, Vol 1
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The FindMyPast index transcriptions are quite misleading. The registers reveal that 30167 Edwd Morton was aged 20 in 1850, and 14025 Edwd Morton was aged 19 in 1865.
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Hi. Thanks for the info re Edward Morton. I asked an expert about His records and i was advised there was no such person of the dates you kindly forwarded. It now gives some credence to Johnston, his sons statement on his last marriage cert that his father was a sergeant in the Irish constabulary. Thanks
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I asked an expert about His records and i was advised there was no such person of the dates you kindly forwarded
I think he was right. I can't see anything either.
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True there are no records in the files but the newspaper reports mention him so presumably he existed but perhaps the files don’t.
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[I received thi earlier which does show an Edward Morton I don’t have a FindMyPast subscription can’t doubt the info, quote author=ShaunJ link=topic=879040.msg7512680#msg7512680 date=1703859705]
I asked an expert about His records and i was advised there was no such person of the dates you kindly forwarded
I think he was right. I can't see anything either. reland, Royal Irish Constabulary Service Records 1816-1922
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/ireland-royal-irish-constabulary-service-records-1816-1922
For Edward Morton, here are his potential service numbers (via FindMyPast)-
First name(s) Last name Event year Service number Place Document type
Edwd Morton 1816 30167 — General Register - Index, Vol 1
Edwd Morton 1816 14025 — General Register - Index, Vol 1
[/quote]
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Like i said:
The FindMyPast index transcriptions are quite misleading. The registers reveal that 30167 Edwd Morton was aged 20 in 1850, and 14025 Edwd Morton was aged 19 in 1865.
Those two Edwds would have been born circa 1830 and 1846 respectively. So not your man.
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True there are no records in the files but the newspaper reports mention him so presumably he existed but perhaps the files don’t
I can see newspaper reports of Serjeant Morton at New Inn but are there any that give his first name?
Johnston Morton's father Edward Morton was a wood ranger per the first marriage record https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1848/09346/5383960.pdf
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Shaun,
A related thread here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=878910.9
Reply #14 onwards re Color Sgt Edward Morton. I posted it as this Edward had a police sergeant father and was staying close to Johnston Morton in 1871.
Johnston Morton had claimed his father was a police sergeant and it seemed quite coincidental and possibly. Link and confirmation re the marriage record.
I agree there is no mention of first name in the newspaper reports though.
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The Registered Papers of the Chief Secretary only go to 1833 but there is mention of a Thomas Morton Chief Constable, from Roscommon, he applied for the post in 1831, John Flood Callan Co. Kilkenny made a complaint against him in 1833.
https://csorp.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php
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The Newinn police barrack still stands: https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/22206913/newinn-constabulary-barrack-loughkent-west-newinn-tipperary-south
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Constabulary Barrack, Loughkent West, Newinn, Co Tipperary.
1897 - 1913 map https://arcg.is/11munn0
1829 - 1841 map https://arcg.is/0rKCeC0
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Former Constabulary Barracks, just off the R639 and about 150 metres from the crossroads in the centre of Newinn.
Google Street View
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4391205,-7.8827314,3a,30y,286.16h,89.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sO9b5ZCbqZjmIp9-6rnOxSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu
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The Newinn police barrack still stands: https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/22206913/newinn-constabulary-barrack-loughkent-west-newinn-tipperary-south
Deeply suspect write up. Served the RIC until 1926? Indeed.
Also implies that the building was built as a barracks, which is inconsistent with the dates given.
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Hi, thanks for your reply, I think the building is of Georgian origin perhaps turn of the 18th and 19th century, a short quote from Wikipedia Unlike police elsewhere in the United Kingdom, RIC constables were routinely armed (including with carbines) and billeted in barracks, and the force had a militaristic structure.
There were rules about who could serve in a specific region and who was allowed and when a member of the police force could marry, Constables were routinely moved around the county to avoid forming relationships with locals, so a barracks would serve as living quarters for the force.
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Hi, thanks for your reply, I think the building is of Georgian origin perhaps turn of the 18th and 19th century, a short quote from Wikipedia Unlike police elsewhere in the United Kingdom, RIC constables were routinely armed (including with carbines) and billeted in barracks, and the force had a militaristic structure.
There were rules about who could serve in a specific region and who was allowed and when a member of the police force could marry, Constables were routinely moved around the county to avoid forming relationships with locals, so a barracks would serve as living quarters for the force.
All RIC stations were known as barracks - because the men lived in them.
But far from all were actually built as barracks per se. Most were ordinary existing buildings simply rented to the RIC for their use. Can see that from Griffith's Valuation, where the owners and rents are listed.
My other point was that the RIC was disbanded in 1922, so impossible that this building was in use by them until 1926. Puts other dates in doubt.
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I think the newly formed Garda Síochána took most of the barracks over after 1922 until the service was rationalised. Probably the reason it went out of use in 1926.
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I think the newly formed Garda Síochána took most of the barracks over after 1922 until the service was rationalised. Probably the reason it went out of use in 1926.
What the "Buildings of Ireland" site says is that this building "served the Royal Irish Constabulary until 1926, after which time it was used by the Garda Síochána." That is not possible. It may have been vacant or unused from 1922-1926, but it certainly did not serve the RIC until 1926, as there was no RIC from 1922.
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looks like the Buildings of Ireland have got the facts mixed up, as we know the RIC was disbanded in 1922
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looks like the Buildings of Ireland have got the facts mixed up, as we know the RIC was disbanded in 1922
Precisely.
And if they can get a well known fact like that wrong, then it calls into question their other assertions.
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True there are no records in the files but the newspaper reports mention him so presumably he existed but perhaps the files don’t.
From working a lot with the RIC records, it seems that for the older years they are not complete. For the early years, they seem to have only included men who were receiving a pension in the 1850s and later.
From newspapers, the Morton in New Inn had the initial 'E'. He is described as a Pol. Con. (police constable) in the Clonmel Herald of Saturday 04 April 1835.
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True there are no records in the files but the newspaper reports mention him so presumably he existed but perhaps the files don’t.
From working a lot with the RIC records, it seems that for the older years they are not complete. For the early years, they seem to have only included men who were receiving a pension in the 1850s and later.
From newspapers, the Morton in New Inn had the initial 'E'. He is described as a Pol. Con. (police constable) in the Clonmel Herald of Saturday 04 April 1835.
thanks for the information. I am planning a trip to the uk national archives in July which might provide further insight if there are records there. Any snippets are very well received.