RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jcutting on Thursday 28 December 23 15:19 GMT (UK)
-
Hi everyone.
I'm looking for some information about Fraser Johnston. Born 8 June 1886 Edinburgh.
Died 1945 southwark surrey. He joined the navy 1917.
He married may Bessie Jacobs 1913 southwark. Other than a possible death for her in Cheltenham 1976 , (not sure it's her)I cant find anything about her at all. No children nothing.
On the 21 census Fraser is living in rooms at his father in laws house at 188 new Kent road southwark but no wife .
He states he is married.
Now the mystery is this :
In 1922 he fathers a child ,Mary johnston,and her mother is annie Francis, southwark, and is followed by Jack b Johnston 1925,southwark.
They are all living together at 152 John ruskin street,southwark on the 1939 census and stating that they,annie and Fraser, are married ,but I cant find an entry for this.
Annie was the informant in 1941 on her fathers death certificate and was using the surname Johnston .
I just cant find a marriage for annie and Fraser or what happened to may Bessie Jacobs ( johnston)
Fraser was definitely married to her on the 1921 census but fathers anothers child 1922.
Did he and may Bessie have children even ,and where did she go?
Any help would be so gratefully received. Thank you x
-
I'm looking for some information about Fraser Johnston. Born 8 June 1886 Edinburgh.
Died 1945 southwark surrey. He joined the navy 1917.
He married may Bessie Jacobs 1913 southwark. Other than a possible death for her in Cheltenham 1976 , (not sure it's her)I cant find anything about her at all. No children nothing.
On the 21 census Fraser is living in rooms at his father in laws house at 188 new Kent road southwark but no wife .
You have not told us who her father was.
What other information was given in 1921 about Fraser
-
Hi rosie.
Oh sorry. Her father was abraham Jacobs and mother harriet Wright. All living in southwark.
On the 21 census 188 new Kent road had a few families living there. Abraham and harriet. Son Albert Jacobs and his wife and family and then there is Fraser Johnston.
He gives his relationship to head as son in law and that his occupation is a printer which he still is on the 1939 census.
Only other information for him is that he came from Edinburgh, midlothian. On his and may Bessie's marriage cert 1913 ,he says that his father is John Johnston, deceased .
Thank you x
-
He's moved in with Annie by 1925, looking at electoral registers. Address 150 Beresford Road, She's calling herself JOhnston/Johnson ( spelling varies)
At a wild guess they're not married, probably as Fraser and May Bessie do not divorce
I notice on electoral registers in the later 1920s there's a Mary Elizabeth Jacobs in the New Kent Road household. Is this May Bessie under another (full) name? I can see she's Mary in 1901
-
Thank you for looking .
I did find an indexed birth entry for may Bessie and it is as that but as you say that's what she could be calling herself by then.
I'll have another look for that later this evening.
Same as you ,I dont think they married either . And I cant find any children between Fraser and may Bessie so maybe they didnt have any .
Thank you again x
-
I don't think the Bessie May Johnstone death in Cheltenham is her. I can find someone on the 1939 register with the same name and date of birth in Cheltenham. She's single and noted as having a disability
-
I think you're right. I didnt think it was her either. It just didnt feel right . The Jacobs looked like a close knit family so her being in Cheltenham seemed a bit far away from them .
-
There is only one birth showing for a Fraser Johnson (using wildcards for spelling variations) in Midlothian between 1883-87:
FRASER JOHNSTON
Mother's maiden name MCTAGGART
1884
685 / 3 / 718
Canongate
You can view the original image on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. It is pay to view, but costs are reasonable.
Monica
-
Possible 1891 census in Edinburgh:
John Johnstone 40, matress maker b. Ayr
Janet Johnstone 40 b. Ayr
Elizabeth Johnstone 18 b. Ayr
John Johnstone 16 b. Ayr
David Johnstone 11 b. Edinburgh
Mary Johnstone 9 b. Edinburgh
Fraser Johnstone 6 b. Edinburgh
Address 7 Salisbury St, Edinburgh St Cuthbert's
Likely marriage for parents showing as:
JOHN JOHNSTONE
and
JANET MCTAGGART
1872
578 / 13
Ayr, Ayrshire
Monica
-
Do you have an actual date of birth for May Bessie - it may be possible to use it to find her on 1939
-
On her marriage certificate it say shes 17 and I found an indexed birth for 1897.
I've broadened the search area in case she was incarcerated but nothing. Ive even tried the variant Mary Elizabeth ,even though that's not her real name but I'll give anything a go lol.
Thanks again for helping .
-
Possible 1891 census in Edinburgh:
John Johnstone 40, matress maker b. Ayr
Janet Johnstone 40 b. Ayr
Elizabeth Johnstone 18 b. Ayr
John Johnstone 16 b. Ayr
David Johnstone 11 b. Edinburgh
Mary Johnstone 9 b. Edinburgh
Fraser Johnstone 6 b. Edinburgh
Address 7 Salisbury St, Edinburgh St Cuthbert's
Likely marriage for parents showing as:
JOHN JOHNSTONE
and
JANET MCTAGGART
1872
578 / 13
Ayr, Ayrshire
Monica
Thank you Monica. That's brilliant. There is only one birth showing for a Fraser Johnson (using wildcards for spelling variations) in Midlothian between 1883-87:
FRASER JOHNSTON
Mother's maiden name MCTAGGART
1884
685 / 3 / 718
Canongate
You can view the original image on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. It is pay to view, but costs are
Thank you Monica. That's Brilliant. X
-
SS
-
SS
Thank you x
-
What I have found though is that May Bessie's father changes his name frequently from Charles Herbert Jacobs to Charles Jacobs and then Abraham Jacobs.
Also when looking on the 1939 census for 188 new Kent Road there's a Charles and Harriet but they're using the surname of castle .
I do know that with the threat of an imminent war some Jewish people changed their surnames .
Some of my family did this for their own safety.
-
Also when looking on the 1939 census...
P.S. There wasn't a census in 1939.
Were you looking at the 1939 National Register, by any chance?
-
Yep but although it wasn't a census it's easier to call it that. Thought everyone did.
-
Yep but although it wasn't a census it's easier to call it that. Thought everyone did.
Everyone who knows, calls it a Register. ::)
-
You're the only person in absolute years who's ever questioned this .
I like others will keep referring to it as a census. Thank you .
-
Now now the pair of you, it's Christmas at the end of the day does it really matter :D :D
SS
-
Absolutely x
-
Just noticed an entry in 1939, for a married Bessie Johnstone working as a domestic servant in Altrincham. She gave her birth date as 14 July 1897. From SS's birth cert find, we have May Bessie being born on 25 July 1897. A maybe?
There is a matching death entry in Liverpool for a Bessie Johnstone in 1987. Birth date given as 14 July 1798.
Monica
-
That would make her 189 years old at death ;D
SS
-
Thank you for looking Monica. Might that last date be 1898 .
To be honest if ss hadn't of noticed I would of gone with it 🤣
-
Anybody would think it was Christmas :D
Monica
-
🤣👍