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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: Vyrnwy on Saturday 30 December 23 10:45 GMT (UK)
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My Mum was 9 at the time of the 1939 Register and living in Mill House, Meifod. Her father's employment is listed as 'cowman' so presumably he worked on one of the larger nearby farms. I've had no luck finding any further details - so any information would be very welcome.
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Hello Vyrnwy and welcome to RootsChat.
Are you after information about the place they were living, or the family itself? Assuming I have the correct family - William JONES (1903, cowman) and Wilys (not sure about her name maybe Dilys?) JONES (1905), the address on the 1939 register is "Pontscowryd Mill House". I'm assuming this is Pontysgawrhyd Mill, Meifod.
A couple of websites about the place:
https://welshmills.org/pontysgawrhyd-mill/
https://new.millsarchive.org/mills/index/?which=12433
A side by side map showing location
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16.3&lat=52.73186&lon=-3.19415&layers=6&right=ESRIWorld
As you say, there are a number of farms in the area in 1939. This one is specifically a dairy farm - Edward Reynold DAVIES (1900) of Red House, Meifod.
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Hi maddy. Many thanks for the reply, the links and the warm welcome.
Mill House (as the friendly mill owner told me) is actually some distance from the mill, and on the other side of the river. However, it's the family that's of most interest to me. Yes, William and Dilys were the parents, the children were Eirwen, Rose, Ann - and my mother Elizabeth Enid.
I've been unable to find a maiden name for Dilys and unable to find a birth entry for my mother. I should add that I'm still quite new to genealogical research. I've managed to trace my father's side back into the 18th century but am really struggling to make any progress on my mum's side.
That's a great idea to check nearby cattle farms. They may have records of past employees and it's not inconceivable that someone still living may have memories of the family.
Thanks again for your generous response.
Best wishes for the new year.
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I think the maiden name of Dilys may have been Watkins.
Elizabeth Enid Jones birth registered in Dolgelly Q3 1930, mother's maiden name Watkins
Rose E Jones in Dolgelly Q4 1932, mother's maiden name Watkins
I can't find a marriage to confirm it.
David
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Croeso cynnes iawn i Rootschat
Welsh Journals
https://journals.library.wales/view/1264487/1272050/92#?cv=92&m=39&h=pontysgawrhyd&xywh=40%2C300%2C3500%2C2246
Click on title (in blue) to view article.
https://journals.library.wales/search?query=pontysgawrhyd&range%5Bmin%5D=1735&range%5Bmax%5D=2007
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@DCB
Many thanks indeed, David.
I had, actually, looked at that entry and dismissed it on the grounds that a farm labourer was unlikely to have upped sticks and moved his family from Merioneth to Montgomeryshire. However, I didn't see that reference to Rose - which drastically increases the likelyhood that you are correct.
Watkins/Dolgellau will now be the focus of further research. I'll let you know what turns up.
Happy New Year,
Andrew.
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@hanes teulu
Diolch yn fawr i chi.
Mae'r felin yn diddorol iawn a mae'r ardal yn hyfryd efo. A dwi'n wedi darllen (yn Saesanag) AD Rees llyfr Life in a Welsh Countryside - y plwyf nesa.
Hwyl fawr a fflwyddyn newydd dda.
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Do allow for the possibility that it might have been a second marriage and so any of their children's birth records would record Dilys's maiden surname but her marriage to William would have recorded her first marriage surname.
Also, one of my ancestors moved over the Berwyns from Bala to Llangynog and his sons later moved to to the Wrexham area. This was not unusual in farming/mining occupations.
Gadget
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Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i chi 'fyd.
Pob lŵc
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In 1921, there was a Dilys Watkins, a servant born 1906 in Llanfair Caereinion, but I can't find her in 1911.
I can't find a William Jones marrying a Dilys in the Merioneth or Montgomery area at the time, nor a Dilys Watkins marrying anybody either.
There was a William Jones who married a Cordelia J Watkins in Newtown District in 1927. She was probably Cordelia Jane, registered in Llanfyllin, Q1 1906, but I can't find her in the censuses or 39 register. Slight possibility that she shortened her name to Dilys.
The birth certificate for Elizabeth Edith might help, but expensive if not the correct one.
David
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Thanks Gadget
That's a timely reminder that the wedding certificate - or certificates - will be required to fill out the full picture.
And though the move to Montgomeryshire may not have been entirely unusual there must still have been some significant reason behind it. I'm wondering if that's discoverable.
Many thanks.
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@DCB
Hi David
The Dilys Watkins of Llanfair Caereinion is the right age and location. Llanfair is only a few miles from Meifod. Though she would have had to move to Dolgellau, have two children and move back to Montgomeryshire. Cordelia is also a possibility. Llanfyllin district covers the Meifod area, I believe.
Did you mean birth cert for Elizabeth Enid (Jones b. Dolgellau) rather than Edith?
Thanks for your help. I got completely tangled in the undergrowth on this!
Andrew.
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Sorry. Yes Enid.
David
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If it;s any help, both an Elizabeth Enid and an Rosemary (sic) Jones are recorded in the North Wales BMD as in Talyllyn, which is a sub district of Dollgellau. Dates correspond to the GRO registrations.
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/birthsearch.php
Gadget
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NW BMD
Civil Marriage in Llanfyllin 1923
William Edward Jones to Dilys Gwendolen Evans
Gadget
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I did wonder about Dilys Evans, but couldn't find children's births to match.
There was one born in 1904 in Pennal, Merionethshire, on the 1911 census.
Registered in Machylleth District, mmn Humphreys, and baptised in Pennal on 31 Mar 1904.
She doesn't match the birth on the 39 register, but dates are often a year out.
I think you can rule out Cordelia Jane Watkins. There is a burial for Cordelia Jane Jones in Welshpool in 1951, age 44.
David
P.S. There was a Rose Esme Jones mmn Evans registered in LLanfyllin in 1931
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P.S. There was a Rose Esme Jones mmn Evans registered in LLanfyllin in 1931
Yes - saw that one and did wonder - more digging required.
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Hi maddy. Many thanks for the reply, the links and the warm welcome.
Mill House (as the friendly mill owner told me) is actually some distance from the mill, and on the other side of the river. However, it's the family that's of most interest to me. Yes, William and Dilys were the parents, the children were Eirwen, Rose, Ann - and my mother Elizabeth Enid.
I've been unable to find a maiden name for Dilys and unable to find a birth entry for my mother. I should add that I'm still quite new to genealogical research. I've managed to trace my father's side back into the 18th century but am really struggling to make any progress on my mum's side.
That's a great idea to check nearby cattle farms. They may have records of past employees and it's not inconceivable that someone still living may have memories of the family.
Thanks again for your generous response.
Best wishes for the new year.
Do you have birth years for Eirwen and Ann. .?
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I think the maiden name of Dilys may have been Watkins.
Elizabeth Enid Jones birth registered in Dolgelly Q3 1930, mother's maiden name Watkins
Rose E Jones in Dolgelly Q4 1932, mother's maiden name Watkins
I can't find a marriage to confirm it.
David
Freebmd has Rosie E Jones.
GRO has her full name as Rosie Elvira.
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NW BMD
Civil Marriage in Llanfyllin 1923
William Edward Jones to Dilys Gwendolen Evans
Gadget
Much thanks for that - it looks like a promising avenue of research. I'll follow it up. David notes that there are no births to match but they certainly fit the bill for Enid's parents.
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Hi wilcoxon
Many thanks for your interest.
No, sadly I don't have birth years for any of Enid's sisters, nor do I have middle names for them. I'm not even sure of their relative ages - though I got the impression that Eirwen and Rose were older than Enid and Anne.
I should also look into the Watkins/Dolgellau possibility. However, I never heard Rose being addressed as anything other than Rose and if I did have, or had, relatives in Dolgellau I'd probably be aware it. Relatives in Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire were mentioned occasionally and we did once visit a step-relative there.
Andrew.
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Relatives in Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire were mentioned occasionally and we did once visit a step-relative there.
Do you have any idea who they were? Even age and gender might be a clue.
Also, have you thought of doing a DNA test?
I know how difficult Jones is to find. I have multiple lines of them :-X
Gadget
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Yes, the woman we went to see was the former wife of Enid's father. He must have been quite old when they married and she still quite young when he died. At the time of our visit she was living with a subsequent husband with whom she had three boys. I remember being amused to be told that I had uncles who were younger than me. I'm not sure when this was but it might have been - if I had to guess - around the mid 1960's and the boys may have been about 5 at the time.
Thanks for the DNA idea, I'll keep it in reserve for now, but yes, Jones!
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This might be worth checking out
1921 census. You'll have to pay for the full details.
Dilys
Watkins
B 1906
Llanfair Caereinion, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Abode Llanwnog Newtown.
Dilys, David, Jane and 4 others are on this record
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Thanks wilcoxon.
This will be the Dilys Watkins that David turned up - see top of page 2. Certainly worth me taking a closer look.