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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: woiiftm on Wednesday 31 January 24 22:37 GMT (UK)
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I think I am confused.
From a search on Scotlands' People
I was looking for death of Charlotte Buchanan, nee Bell in 1918, married to
William Bain Buchanan, and got this (correct details in all aspects but....}
"Charlotte Bain
formerly Buchanan
Widower of 1st John Reilley, bootmaker
2nd William Buchanan
formerly Bain, Private 2nd battalion
Royal Scots Fusileers"
Can anyone explain what this this is telling me please
Did he or she alter their surname with middle?
(I do get the 1st widower bit)
Cheers
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Without knowing anything about the family, it is difficult.
However from what you have posted I would suspect that William Buchanan was previously known as William Bain, because either his mother remarried, or he was an illegitimate child.
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Thanks for your thoughts, gives me another angle to pursue. I've been trying to find parents for him with no luck yet but have found hers.
Cheers
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Marriage 23 July 1875*, Perth * 1873 - misread from a poor image!
William Bain Buchanan, 33, Widower, Private, Scots Fusiliers and Charlotte Reilly, 28, domestic servant, widow.
William's parents - William Bain Buchanan, groom and Alice Buchanan MS Bain.
Who was the informant on Charlotte's death cert? Often informants get muddled with details.
Gadget
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The census has William Bain Buchanan born in Edinburgh
I wonder if this might be him in 1851 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5d95e5a3f4040b5efca2a9a6/william-bain-1851-midlothian-st-cuthbert-s-1843-?locale=en
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On my Grandmother's Scottish Death Certificate, it states her name, when and where, cause and their home address:-
Full name of Husband 1, Occupation and deceased [WW 2].
Full name of Husband 2, Occupation and Retired, who also signs as the Informant / Widower
My Grandmother's parents names, his Occupation, with her mother's nee name.
The parents, his Occupation and mother's nee name of Husband 2, the Informant and Widower.
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Matches marriage cert ~
Death
17 Dec 1886 William Bain Buchanan, ( Known as William Bain),Cornwall St, Govan, Shoemaker 'an Army Pensioner', Aged 44
Married to
1 Emily Strong
2 Charlotte Bell or Reilly
Parents - William Buchanan, Carpet Weaver, dec. and Alice Buchanan MS Bain, dec.
Cause - Phithisis Pulmonalis
Informant - Mary McInernay (?), Sister, Kinning Park, (Present)
Maybe look for his sister, Mary
Gadget
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May be~
1881 Census
Cornwall Street, Govan
William B Buchanan. 41, Shoemaker, b. Edinburgh
Charlotte B Buchanan, 37, b. Ireland
and 5 children - under 2 - 11, b. Ireland, England and Glasgow
Gadget
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1841 census William Buchanan carpet weaver. ?
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14eb0ef4040b9d6ef24393/willm-buchanan-1841-lanarkshire-barony-1821-?locale=en
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I assume that's his father, Neale.
Is there any sign of William B's mother or sister Mary?
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May be~
1881 Census
Cornwall Street, Govan
William B Buchanan. 41, Shoemaker, b. Edinburgh
Charlotte B Buchanan, 37, b. Ireland
and 5 children - under 2 - 11, b. Ireland, England and Glasgow
Gadget
Possible birth of child in England?
BUCHANAN, EMILY mmn BELL
GRO Reference: 1875 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 428
SS
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Looks like it SS
The list of children in 1881
Thomas B. 11, b. Ireland
Mary Ann, 9 b, Ireland
Emily B, 5, b. England
Alice B, 3, b Glasgow
Ellen B. 8 mths, b. Glasgow
Gadget
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Charlotte's first marriage.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11410/8190342.pdf
SS
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I was just about to give that ;D
Charlotte Bell married John Reilly on 31 January 1869, Dublin North
John was a shoemaker also.
Add - I think the OP said that he knew about Charlotte though. He wanted to know about William B)
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I think I am confused.
From a search on Scotlands' People
I was looking for death of Charlotte Buchanan, nee Bell in 1918, married to
William Bain Buchanan, and got this (correct details in all aspects but....}
"Charlotte Bain
formerly Buchanan
Widower of 1st John Reilley, bootmaker
2nd William Buchanan
formerly Bain, Private 2nd battalion
Royal Scots Fusileers"
Can anyone explain what this this is telling me please
Did he or she alter their surname with middle?
(I do get the 1st widower bit)
Cheers
Yes, Charlotte Bell, has married (or been the wife of) twice.
Added:
First to Reilley
Secondly to Buchanan a.k.a. Bain
It would also appear from Gadget's reply at 6 with the death details of William Bain Buchanan also calls him, or says he was known as William Bain (his mother's family name).
See Gadget's reply 6 (and Wife 2).
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=879966.msg7523173#msg7523173
So that is how you end up with Charlotte Bain (or Buchanan), looking at the death details of both.
Your Certificate is also acknowledging any alias or 'also known as' names for Buchanan.
As you build up your tree with Certificates / Census, hopefully it should all fit together nicely.
Added:
Many years ago I went through the 12 or 13 Memorial Inscriptions Volumes (set out in surname order) for all the churches of S.W. Scotland and there was also a lot of using the mother's or nee name on the stone and underneath 'the Wife of' ... Added: or on Family graves, to show lineage / descent.
A few might also have lived together as a husband and wife and/or formally married later.
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Names of Charlotte Bell & John Reilly's parents
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The nearest that I can find for sister Mary is:
1881
B Back Land
39 Crown Street, Govan
Isabella McInarny, wid, 56, b. Ireland
Peter, s, 37, unm, fruit salesman, b. Glasgow
Mary, d, unm, 35, Cotton piecer, b. Glasgow
Could she be Charlotte's sister rather than William's ??
Gadget
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Note that on Charlotte's death certificate, the informant was Thomas Reilly . Son . I presume this was the Thomas B listed on the 1881 b. Ireland. My Reply #11 above.
Gadget
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woiiftm, do you have full details about Thomas Reilly born 1869 & Mary Reilly born 1872 and do you want them?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:62ZG-YJ3B
SS
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Many thanks to all who helped with this. Info you've found has been very helpful.
We had always been told that there was an Irish connection somewhere but nobody had known
where. Looks like you good people may just have found it.
Although I'm still unclear as to why he would swap around with his surname.
Can I ask "Softly Softly" if that except does indeed confirm an Irish birth for Charlotte and did it
have a date? Reilly info would be appreciated, maybe help us further clarify any Irish details.
Thanks again to you all
All the best
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Do you have a subscription to Ancestry?
SS
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Do you have a subscription to Ancestry?
SS
I am registered on the site, a few years back, but never subscribed. Not sure why.
Using Scotlands People, Find a Grave and a few folders for print offs.
Do you recommend or are there other means of searching?
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St. Michan's is free on NLI site
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0499
Thomas Reilly baptism second last one, you may need alter the light a bit to view it better
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633595#page/30/mode/1up
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Irish Genealogy has his birth cert without his first name, not uncommon for a hospital birth
Last one on the page
Just sign in and prove your not a robot.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03385/2241128.pdf
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Sinann, today was a learning day following your post about "unknown" christian names. Here's Mary's for the record.
SS
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03286/2204326.pdf
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From what I can make out, John and Charlotte were married in July 1869, Thomas was born in
November 1869 (both events in Ireland) then just under 3 years later she marries William in
Scotland?
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then just under 3 years later she marries William in
Scotland?
That's what the marriage cert on SP says:
Marriage 23 July 1875, Perth
William Bain Buchanan, 33, Widower, Private, Scots Fusiliers and Charlotte Reilly, 28, domestic servant, widow.
William's parents - William Bain Buchanan, groom and Alice Buchanan MS Bain.
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Note that Mary Ann was also born in Ireland circa 1871-2. (aged 9 on the 1881)
See my reply #11
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So If my records re William are right, they married in July 1873.
Did John Reilly disappear, divorce or die?
Whatever happened must have been just after Mary Ann born!
(Can't find him on Irish or Scottish sites)
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So If my records re William are right, they married in July 1873.
Did John Reilly disappear, divorce or die?
Whatever happened must have been just after Mary Ann born!
(Can't find him on Irish or Scottish sites)
Have you checked for O'Reilly?
Divorce was probably too expensive?
I did a tree for a friend, born O'Reilly.
The surname seemed to be interchangeable between Reilly and O'Reilly.
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A possible death for John Reilly. When he married Charlotte his occupation was "shoemaker". He was possibly of a similar birth year as Charlotte.
SS
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020757/7282270.pdf
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Divorce very unlikely for Roman Catholics
edited
Just about to post the same death
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....... Although I'm still unclear as to why he would swap around with his surname. ......
His parents were probably not married. He was first known as William BAIN (mother's surname) - quite usual where a child was raised by the mother's family
Then at some point he decided to use his father's surname - BUCHANAN.
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Deleted
I'm wondering if William was in Ireland prior to his marriage to Charlotte. I spent a good while going through military records available but nothing definite was found. I don't have access to the detailed records available (Fold3). I do recall that the Royal Scots Fusiliers were in Ireland at one point but not at all sure of the dates. He is listed as a Private RSF on the marriage entry in addition to the entries on both his and Charlotte's death certs.
Gadget
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Info only, Iv'e had great fun trying to sort this out, all the different surnames, Bain, Reilly & Buchanan.
Thomas Reilly born 22.7.1869 Dublin North-parents John Reilly & Charlotte Bell
Thomas Rilley Bain marries Mary McArthur 7.7.1891. Info on marriage cert makes interesting reading.
2 children born William Bain c1893 & Nellie c1895
Thomas Bain formerly Reilly dies 19.12.1945 aged 76. Again death cert makes interesting reading.
.......................................
Mary Reilly born 9.7.1871 Dublin North-parents John Reilly & Charlotte
Mary R B Buchanan marries Thomas Armstrong McLean 1905.
Mary Anne B McLean/Reilly dies aged 94 in 1965
...............
As said all certificates make interesting reading.
SS
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Info only, Iv'e had great fun trying to sort this out, all the different surnames, Bain, Reilly & Buchanan.
Thomas Reilly born 22.7.1869 Dublin North-parents John Reilly & Charlotte Bell
Thomas Rilley Bain marries Mary McArthur 7.7.1891. Info on marriage cert makes interesting reading.
2 children born William Bain c1893 & Nellie c1895
Thomas Bain formerly Reilly dies 19.12.1945 aged 76. Again death cert makes interesting reading.
.......................................
Mary Reilly born 9.7.1871 Dublin North-parents John Reilly & Charlotte
Mary R B Buchanan marries Thomas Armstrong McLean 1905.
Mary Anne B McLean/Reilly dies aged 94 in 1965
...............
As said all certificates make interesting reading.
SS
Just found list of death certificate on Scotlands people and it shows 3 with 3 different spouses named!!! :o
Havn't opened any as might just be too big a rabbit hole to go down :o
Never seen this before.
Thanks, I think.