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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Sibbie on Monday 05 February 24 19:57 GMT (UK)
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I am related to the above. He was born on the West Coast (Granity) 18/04/1896 and died at Trentham Military Camp 4/02/1921 from TB. His parents were Charles
Allen Sibree who married Elizabeth Davidson at Granity 25/04/1895. I am interested in the parentage and line of both Charles and Elizabeth. Charles appears to have come from Australia, and Elizabeth from Northumberland about 1883. Can anyone help please?
Moderator edit, 17 March 2024: Spurious middle name of Charles SIBREE struck out following correction by OP in Reply#20 below. Spades
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His parents were Charles Allen Sibree who married Elizabeth Davidson at Granity 25/04/1895.
Your first step is to look at the marriage certificate and collect all the information that it contains about the background of each person.
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Hi Sibbie, and welcome :)
Their 1895 marriage certificate should provide the names and occupation of both their parents. You can purchase this from NZ BDM but ensure you request a print-out, their name for a copy of the original document.
It can be emailed to you.
Have you looked on Papers Past for any record of the SIBREE family?
Regards,
Spades
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There was a divorce in 1919.
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiD2LvUkJWEAxVNcGwGHX8dDK0QFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpaperspast.natlib.govt.nz%2Fnewspapers%2FDOM19191128.2.99%3Fitems_per_page%3D10%26phrase%3D2%26query%3Dfrederick%2BWilliam%2Bpoore%26snippet%3Dtrue&usg=AOvVaw0oJVeEefZo9g3F8QLwwXLb&opi=89978449
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Hi Sibbie,
Do you know if the SIBREE’s had a connection to Protestant missionary work?
Regards,
Spades
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There was a divorce in 1919.
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiD2LvUkJWEAxVNcGwGHX8dDK0QFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpaperspast.natlib.govt.nz%2Fnewspapers%2FDOM19191128.2.99%3Fitems_per_page%3D10%26phrase%3D2%26query%3Dfrederick%2BWilliam%2Bpoore%26snippet%3Dtrue&usg=AOvVaw0oJVeEefZo9g3F8QLwwXLb&opi=89978449
Looks as Charles SIBREE married again in NSW in 1939 to Mary DENHAM
His wife Mary Ann died 1946 (in memorium here)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18099217?searchTerm=%22Charles%20Sibree%22
Charles Alan SIBREE died 28th Aug 1953. Late of Darlinghurst. Will dates 12 Feb 1953
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29608952?searchTerm=%22Charles%20Sibree%22
On his death rego (index) his parents are Charles and Esther.
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Death Notice, Mary wife of Charles SIBREE of Darlinghurst. 1946.
Perhaps the second wife.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18004067
Sue
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On his death rego (index) his parents are Charles and Esther.
This could be the NZ marriage of Charles and Esther.
Esther Josephine KENT
Charles John Hickey SIBREE
Yr 1874
Place New Zealand
Reg 9733
Sue
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Esther Josephine KENT and Charles SIBREE are both mentioned in attached article.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18731024.2.11
~ Lu
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Further to reply #2...
I think I read on Rootschat recently that divorce files usually include a copy of the marriage certificate?
If so, perhaps a look up could be requested:
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/en/web/arena/search#/entity/aims-archive/R26117085/sibree%2C-charles-v-sibree%2C-elizabeth-and-wilson%2C-henry?q=sibree&source=aims-archive
Minniehaha.
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Can't help with this family but I have this name in my Ancestry in London, England always recorded as Sibery - just thought this may be a variant to keep in mind - it sounds the same.
Pheno
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The following article relates to Charles and Esther SIBREE >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18790311.2.7
* There is a lot more to be had about the couple if you look through the newspaper articles which relate to the West Coast (South Island). (Search on SIBREE ... the KENT name appears a few times also in connection with Charles SIBREE a carpenter. He seems to have been in NZ (West Coast area) from around 1867. ) This Charles SIBREE was also known as "Yankee Charlie (Charley) " :
You can search the newspapers here > > https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers
In the search bar (left-hand side) > click on "All titles, all regions" to take you to West Coast newspapers (where you can filter these from other titles.)
Esther SIBREE is mentioned in the NZ Police Gazette twice (vagrancy and one other charge). It gives her native place as Sydney and a birth year around 1833.
~ Lu
Added : This article mentions the acquittal of Charles SIBREE on the charge of murder.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WC18790308.2.8.5
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Death of Charles SIBREE - (This would seem to be the Charles SIBREE aka "Yankee Charley" ... who was married to Esther KENT. )
Burial at Wesport : Added: Orowaiti Old Cemetery
(Cemetery record) >
SIBREE - Chas. (DR = Death record -- has Charles John) - died on 5 January 1880 of cancer of the stomach - aged 50 years. Buried 7 January -- Free plot -- RC : Born : New York ::
NZ BDM has >
Death - 1880/5122 - SIBREE - Charles John Hickey - 50 years
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Death notification for Esther SIBREE >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GRA19071014.2.9
Added: NZ BDM has Death >
1907/8493 - SIBREE - Esther - 74 years
~ Lu
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His parents were Charles Allen Sibree who married Elizabeth Davidson at Granity 25/04/1895. I am interested in the parentage and line of both Charles and Elizabeth. Charles appears to have come from Australia, and Elizabeth from Northumberland about 1883. Can anyone help please?
Hello Sibbie
I'm guessing you've seen the handful of "trees" published on the ancestry website (is one of these perhaps yours ? )
There are names given in one tree for the parents of Elizabeth DAVIDSON (of Northumberland) but no indication at all of where that information was sourced from ??
It appears too, despite information given in some records, that Elizabeth SIBREE (nee DAVIDSON) did not go on to marry Henry WILSON following her 1919 divorce.
Further to the Divorce article which "spades" gave in Reply # 3, there was another snippet published which said Elizabeth had had a child with WILSON.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19191127.2.75
Added : ... also this snippet confirming daughter >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTIM19191128.2.104
The birth of this daughter was registered thus >
NZ BDM
1915 / 20401 - SIBREE - Phyllis Henrietta
Parents : Elizabeth and Henry Alfred
Having the full name of Henry WILSON made it easy to locate his death and that of Elizabeth.
Also found on electoral rolls that following the death of Elizabeth in 1938, Henry was later sharing an address at Lower Hutt, Wellington, with his married daughter, Phyllis.
Burials at Taita Old Cemetery (Lower Hutt) : (Adjacent plots)
WILSON - Elizabeth - died 18 January 1938, buried 20 January : Plot 22 V CE
WILSON - Henry Alfred - buried 1 December 1858 : Plot 23 V CE
~ Lu
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Elizabeth DAVIDSON - m. SIBREE ... d. 1938 as Elizabeth WILSON :
Following link is to NZ Army file for Henry Alfred WILSON.
(He claimed also to have served in Australian Imperial Force ??? )
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE21237578
At page number 2 you can see the info he supplied re: his "marriage" to Elizabeth DAVIDSON (s) on 26/7/04 at Bendigo. ::)
( Details of the daughter's birth at Wellington also appear. )
No such marriage on the VIC BDM site. Nor anything on the NZ index.
So looks like the best source of information for Elizabeth DAVIDSON will come from her marriage record to Charles SIBREE - 1895. ;) And as has already been mentioned you'd get "two for the price of one" if you purchased the Divorce record (1919) ... Check though with Archives NZ firstly that the Marriage certificate is actually annexed to the file. ;D
~ Lu
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William Charles SIBREE :
Hi Sebbie
I'd looked over William's Army flie earlier and saw that he had a child.
Not sure if you had previously found William's Will on the Archives NZ site ?
It shows the bequests he made (to his parents).
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE77597416
~ Lu
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His parents were Charles Allen Sibree who married Elizabeth Davidson at Granity 25/04/1895. I am interested in the parentage and line of both Charles and Elizabeth. Charles appears to have come from Australia, and Elizabeth from Northumberland about 1883. Can anyone help please?
Am guessing that a birth registration has not yet been found for Charles Allen SIBREE ??
Did ponder if the "Allen" name had been added later (as his 1895 marriage record only shows "Charles SIBREE".)
There is this New Zealand birth (place not given - but can possibly be looked up on microfiche record at library) >
1869 - KENT - Charles Patrick Sibbery
Mother : Esther Father : N/R (name not recorded) ???
~ Lu
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Thank you Lucy2 for your work on this. I am aware of the Yankee Charlie reference and he was responsible for a "false" gold rush on the Coast. Apparently, he mentioned that he had discovered some colour south of either Westport of it may have been Greymouth. Apparently, he was almost lynched. From what you have discovered it sounds like they as a couple were a little unsavory. The murder accusation is an interesting read. As for Charles having been born in New York is an interesting twist. There seems to be a number of Sibrees there.
The Charles I have been seeking has the spelling of Alan, not Allen as I previously mentioned in error.
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Hi Sibbie
It's not just me :-[ who has supplied information ... I do hope you've looked back through this thread and read the valuable contributions made here by others. ;) It's always to your advantage also to answer (as best you can), any questions we ask ... that way you help us, to help you. :) :)
The Charles I have been seeking has the spelling of Alan, not Allen as I previously mentioned in error.
Still puzzled as to why you have the name "Charles Allen or Alan SIBREE" ... and where it came from. ???
NZ records for the man who was the father of William Charles SIBREE, seemed only to use the forename "Charles". i.e. His marriage 1895 to Elizabeth DAVIDSON and Divorce file 1919 / as next-of-kin on NZ Army file for his son William, father is named as Mr C. SIBREE / appearances on NZ electoral rolls - as Charles SIBREE / on NZ Birth Index as parent of Victor Thomas SIBREE b. 1897 (died tragically at Millerton aged 13 years - October 1911.
[ I don't see on NZ Birth Index a registration for the child Charles SIBREE at all (see my previous post) ... and now added below. ]
Turning to Australia .... we have the death listed in 1953 on the NSW index of a Charles SIBREE - Parents -- Esther and Charles* -- registered at Parramatta.
[ * And in NZ we've located a couple named Charles and Esther (formerly KENT) SIBREE who resided at West Coast locations from at least 1867. No birth registration for a child of this couple listed under SIBREE .... but there is the Birth listed 1869 - KENT - Charles Patrick Sibbery -- mother named as Esther.
Marriage : NSW - 1939 - Charles SIBREE - Mary DENHAM
And NSW Electoral rolls ... 1935 -- Charles SIBREE (occupation, miner) and Mary SIBREE home duties, (before their marriage) - residing at Bourke Street, Darlinghurst ... and listed again in 1939 same location.
SIBREE is a very unusual name (not many on either "side of the ditch") ... and this Charles SIBREE has the same occupation > miner > as the Charles SIBREE from Millerton / West Coast, NZ . A very good chance then that they are one in the same person ?
Experience tells those of us who've been tracking family for many years, that being pedantic about names and their spellings, is not always a good idea ;) ... that is, it is preferable (and usually much more productive) to be open to all sorts of variations. :)
~ Lu
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Charles SIBREE - died 1953 - NSW :
Hello Sibbie .. some additonal information re: the above.
The death notice published in the "Sydney Morning Herald" of 29 August 1953, gives the age of Charles as 72 ... suggesting a birth year of circa 1881, which doesn't really stack up for the man born in New Zealand and registered under the name of Charles Patrick Sibbery KENT (1869).
https://ryersonindex.org/search.php
But that aside, the headstone for Mary and Charles SIBREE at Botany Cemetery, NSW, gives the age of Charles as 76 years (bc 1877). ???
As Mary had predeceased Charles, another family member perhaps had been the informant for Charles' death and although the parents names seem correct, his age at death may well have only been guessed at by the person giving information. [This is not an uncommon occurence).
Did Charles SIBREE have a second family with Mary ?? It seems unlikely. And the text on their headstone hints that Charles was the husband of Mary (Mary Ann) but not necessarily father to her children ?
Headstone photo can be accessed at FindaGrave.com.
Burial place is "Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park - aka Botany Cemetery / Bunnerong Cemetery - Matraville, Randwick City, NSW.
~ Lu
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Sorry, I have been back through what records I have but cannot find any reference to Charles Alan, only Charles Sibree, I have no idea why I used that name as it appeared sometime ago. I did find a review about a magician in Australia called "Eagle". He toured the goldfields. Comment was made in that review as follows:
The most odd aspect of this tale is that the released man, Charles Wallack, apparently the lessee of the Pavilion Theatre, is said to have changed his name to Charles Sibree, and then joined Eagle in his tours, under the guise of “the Goblin Sprightly”. He must have been a slippery character, as newspapers from New Zealand (12) state that he later became Charles Stanley, posed as a doctor at Stringer’s Creek, moved to New Zealand where he was accused as “Yankee Charlie” of fraud in relation to a supposed quartz reef discovery, assault in 1876 for which he was gaoled for two years, and in early 1879 was turned in to police by his own wife, on the accusation of having murdered a man named Thomas Costello some seven years earlier. He had in fact been charged with the murder back in 1872, but released for want of evidence. Ultimately there was some suggestion that the wife, whom Sibree had been assaulting, had made a false accusation to police; in either case she would not appear in court, and the charge was dismissed. A newspaper search reveals that the same Charles Wallack was also charged in 1854 with armed robbery, and in 1865 with sexual assault on a drunken woman. Sprightly … indeed. He died in February 1880.
(12) Grey River Argus, September 3, 1872
Hokatika Star, New Zealand March 13, 1879 in the case of the “Costello Murder”.
Death – New Zealand Times, February 4, 1880.
I thank all for their help in this matter but I think it is unlikely progress on the matter is possible. I am impressed with all the help given. Many thanks, Sibbie.