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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Iain... on Friday 09 February 24 13:49 GMT (UK)
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Good afternoon everyone…
Please may I ask if anyone can provide me with an approximate date concerning the death of the wife of one of my regimental heroes. I would just like to know if she died before or after 1841.
I created an Ancestry tree for Anne, and this is her URL. Anne Tayton - Facts (ancestry.ca) Unfortunately, I was working on possible documents linked to her when my subscription ran out. I still have access to the tree, but I’m not allowed to open the documents or do research.
https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/person/tree/176311746/person/302287879968/facts
For those who do not have Ancestry… The story goes…
Ralph Fraser served in the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards, and I am trying to determine if he was suffering from Combat Stress, (PTSD) perhaps following the Battle of Waterloo. He was demobbed in 1818.
A possible marriage for Anne and Ralph is the 28 of April 1818. Birth unknown, Anne Tayton had a possible father called George. Two children called George Ralph Fraser and Ann Martha Fraser, unfortunately, both died before 1826. Had Anne also died before 1841, then this war-veteran could have been in a terrible state.
On the 12th of January 1841, he was enrolled as one of Queen Victoria’s Almsmen, and this post could have been given to him by the Chaplin of the Royal Chelsea Hospital.
Thanks in advance.
Regards…, Iain.
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Hi
On the 1841 census they seem to be together at St George's Row
Ralph Frazer 58 army pensioner y
Ann 60
Mary William 18 dressmaker y
Sarah Bailey 20 FS y
By 1851 he is at West St with niece
Ralph 68 widower Chelsea pensioner Pimlico
Mary Ann 28 dressmaker Lambeth niece.
so Anne must have died 1841-1851
She seems to have been buried age 61 12.8.1842 at St Margarets Westminster of St Georges Row.
Ciderdrinker
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Ciderdrinker…, that’s very interesting.
As far as I can recall, I didn’t have that info before my subscription ran out.
Speculating, she could have been ill before he got the job at Westminster Abbey in 1841. And having already lost his two children, he would obviously have been ‘down in the dumps.’
He was someone who liked a good drink and a brawl, according to his RHQ documents, meaning that on finding comfort via a bottle, the church could have given him some assistance. (during his service, he was the most decorated soldier in the British Army)
Ciderdrinker…, thank you for your time.
…, Iain. ;)
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Hi Iain
Not to do with his wife, but have you got Ralph Fraser's burial details at the Brompton Cemetery?
See https://portal.royalparks.org.uk/LANSA/TRP/TRPw0005.html
His entry will give you links to his entry on the burial register (click on the 'i) and also a specific location button to his grave at the cemetery (thanks to google mapping services ::)).
Fraser is one of those surnames where you need to try with an S or Z. This index entry is with an S.
Connected family member has left a note on his entry on www.findagrave.com/memorial/221943851/ralph-fraser
Monica :)
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There is a George Tayton rattling around. Wondering if he could connect as a brother to Ann. Possibility that he could have been one of the witnesses at Ann's marriage to Ralph Fraser.
This is his 1841 census entry in St Margaret's Middlesex:
Geo Tayton 50 coach maker jouneyman
Mary Ann Tayton 40 born outside of the county
George Tayton 20
Mary Ann Tayton 17
Ann Tayton 12
Emma Tayton 6
The 1851 census has him born in St Georges, Middlesex c. 1791. Wife Mary Ann was from Gloucestershire.
He looks to have married Mary Ann Walmerley on 21 Mar 1819 at Saint James, Paddington. There is a Tayton witness to the marriage. Can't quite make out the first name. See clip below.
Also, buried at Brompton Cemetery on 7 Oct 1859. You can see his burial entry on the register on the link above. His address showing as 3 Buckingham Row. Also buried there is his Mary Ann who died in 1857.
When using the search screen on the website, just put in Tayton and you will see all 8 entries at the cemetery.
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Re George Tayton born c.1791, his son George Walmesley Tayton, a coach maker like his father, married a Lucy Atkins in 1842.
One of their sons, born 3rd Qrt 1854 in St Pancras, was named Ralph Frasier Tayton...
Monica
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Hi Iain
Not to do with his wife, but have you got Ralph Fraser's burial details at the Brompton Cemetery?
See https://portal.royalparks.org.uk/LANSA/TRP/TRPw0005.html
His entry will give you links to his entry on the burial register (click on the 'i) and also a specific location button to his grave at the cemetery (thanks to google mapping services ::)).
Fraser is one of those surnames where you need to try with an S or Z. This index entry is with an S.
Connected family member has left a note on his entry on www.findagrave.com/memorial/221943851/ralph-fraser
Monica :)
Very interesting Monica…, thank you.
Yes, I have nearly all his details, principally because he was never out of the newspapers. (10 April 1862) And as you say, that site is extremely interesting to use.
Lol…, this site too. Much of what I already have on him is thanks to RootsChat…, including yourself a few years back. ;)
My manuscript is now finished and I must now to ‘go back to school’ to learn Amazon. (‘free’ printing and marketing)
Keeping my fingers crossed for its publication before summer.
Thanks..., Iain.
PS The newspaper cutting is from RHQ Wellington Barracks.
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Wow..., :) Just read your other two posts. Some of it I have, but I'll need to research the remainder.
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That’s interesting… I have George being her father, so a sibling with the same name seems logical.
It’s a pain in the neck not having direct access to Ancestry.
I gave up my subscription about a year ago, as I was spending too much time on Ancestry while neglecting my manuscript. Curiously enough, they still give me access to all my trees and they even allow me to add and modify. But research is not allowed…, and it was about that time I was researching Anne’s family.
Lol…, for Vol2, I need to subscribe again. ;)
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Ralph's parents were Daniel Fraser and Martha? Born on 28 Feb 1783 and baptised 7 March 1783
at St. Margaret's, Westminster?
Monica
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There is a will left by an Ann Tayton of Westminster, 23 January 1806.
Not my strength at all reading these ;D but she bequeathed to a Robert Tayton (Robert and wife Frances buried at Brompton Cemetery), George Tayton and, not sure, a Jane or John Tayton.
Wondered if this could be Ann's mother.
Names could fit with the naming of Ralph and Ann's daughter, Ann Martha Fraser.
You can download and view for free from the TNA if you log in.
Monica
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Have you got these possible siblings for Ralph:
Elizabeth Frazier
b. 26 Mar 1771
bapt. 21 Apr 1771
Daniel Jeremiah Fraser
b. 5 June 1785
bapt. 21 July 1785
Both showing for parents Daniel and Martha, at St Margaret's, Westminster.
Monica
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...she bequeathed to a Robert Tayton (Robert and wife Frances buried at Brompton Cemetery), George Tayton and, not sure, a Jane or John Tayton.
It's Jane.
Note that the three named are called "my three youngest Children".
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Amazing…, thank you Monica, and Horslydown.
I didn’t have his father. By the way, is the 28 Feb 1783 for Daniel or Martha ? Father I suppose.
Looking forward to getting back to genealogy. Lots to do !
Have a nice evening…, Iain. :)
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NO, NO. That birth date must be Martha, otherwise Elizabeth 'Frazier' is older than her father.
Lol..., confused. Could that be a prior marriage ?
Ancestry is amazing... No subscription for about a year. Nonetheless,
it refused Elizabeth as being the daughter of Daniel.
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I didn’t have his father. By the way, is the 28 Feb 1783 for Daniel or Martha ? Father I suppose.
This date is a baptism date for Ralph Fraser, son of Daniel or Martha. Recorded at St Margaret's, Westminster.
Monica
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Just a little more connecting of the dots for Ann Tayton to the Taytons we have been discussing.
We have 3 likely siblings for her from Ann Tayton Snr's will. Robert, George and Jane (thanks, horselydown86).
Jane Tayton I believe went on to marry James Williams, carpenter in 1819 (St George, Hanover Square, Westminster). Witnesses to the marriage were a George Tayton and Mary Ann Tayton. Likely brother George's wife was called Mary Ann.
Jane Tayton and husband James William had a daughter called Mary Ann Emma Williams born in 1823 (Lambeth). Father William's occupation showing as potato dealer, which is what showed for Ralph Fraser in the 1820s? Maybe they worked together!
I think it is Jane's daughter, Mary Ann, who was living with Ralph Fraser in the early censuses. She is down as Fraser in error in the 1851 census but marked as niece.
When Mary Ann Williams married in 1853 (St George, Hanover Square, Westminster) to John Dearlove, her father showed as James Williams, carpenter. Her address is down as West Street, where Ralph Fraser was living. They went on to have a son in 1855 (died in 1864) called Ralph Fraser Dearlove.
Good circustantial confirmation that we are on the right Tayton line I hope.
Monica
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I know you were thinking along the lines of Ann Tayton jnr.'s father being called George but I don't think he was. The George we are seeing acting a witness was her brother I would say. From Ann Tayton's will in 1806, we can note that she was a widow by the time of her death.
I did come across this baptism entry:
Robert Tayton
Birth 11 Aug
Baptism 21 Aug 1785 St. Margaret's, Westminster, London
Father Joseph Tayton
Mother Ann Tayton
The name of Joseph does come up in the children's name for brother George.
Monica
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One more potential brother I would like to just mention is a Thomas Tayton born c.1776.
He married Ann Elizabeth Arnold in 1801 (St. Margaret's, Westminster, London). He shows on the 1841 and 1851 censuses working as a Toll Keeper.
He died in 1856 and is buried at Brompton Cemetery, immediately behind Ralph Fraser (assuming the geomapping online is correct on the site). A number of Taytons look to be buried in the same grave as Thomas, working with the Brompton Cemetery site. This includes a Frances Tayton buried in 1848 at the age of 65. I am wondering if this is Frances Corby who married Robert Tayton in 1813 (St James, Piccadilly /St James, Westminster, London)?
Monica
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It has been bugging me, not finding Robert Tayton on the censuses.
I have now found his entry with family for 1841 in St Margaret', Westminster. Ancestry have his surname as Pawson on the index:
Robert Pawton 55 Cook (?)
Frances Pawton 22
William Pawton 20
Frances Pawton 25
Jane Pawton 20
Address was Palace Street, which is what shows on the Electoral Rolls for Robert Tayton at this time.
Everyone born outside the county except for Robert.
Monica
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Monica…, good evening.
Lol…, how do you do it ? And where do you find all the time ? 32.375 posts is mind-boggling.
Thank you.
In the meantime, I’m a bit of a thicky, and I’ll need some time to get my head around the info. If you don’t mind, I’d like to get back to you during the weekend.
As I mentioned earlier, I’m now working on the Credits and Copyright pages. As a matter of interest, I have been assisted by some of the world’s finest Waterloo experts, and ever since I discovered a scapegoat Courts-Martial in my Brigade, I have since had it on good authority that RHQ and the MOD will reinstate nearly 50 Waterloo Medals.
However, I have for some time been saying to myself that RootsChat and my two genealogy clubs here in Belgium, have participated just as much as the historians. Meaning that I intend to add a Credits page purely reserved for all you wonderful people. Without you and all, my book would be worthless.
I intend writing to Admin this week..., probably tomorrow.
Thank you…, Iain. ;)
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Iain, a real labour of love here for you :) You have worked so hard on it and are the driving force!
I fully understand you are head down at this point. It is important. Concentrate on that.
These new bits of details can wait till you clear the decks a bit ;D
Monica
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For completeness and my curiousity.....
So, I happened to be walking into Brompton Cemetery yesterday by chance ::). It is a beautifully maintained cemetery.
I found Ralph Fraser's grave location. There is a very small weathered stone marking the spot. No inscription as the stone is completely eroded. Sad really, so lost there.
His niece, Mary Ann Williams or Dearlove, daughter of Jane Tayton, arranged the burial there.
The location sited on https://portal.royalparks.org.uk/LANSA/TRP/TRPw0005.html is correct. Except the location of the bench has moved a bit looking at the photo of the location!
See below:
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I mentioned before that I though the grave of Thomas Tayton born c. 1776 and possible brother in law to Ralph Frasear was also located there. It is. Stone is also very worn but you can just make out the name of Thomas Tayton and wife Ann Arnold. From the Brompton Register site, their son Thomas Joseph was also buried in that lair in 1860.
Below are two photos. Firstly is the photo of Ralph Fraser's stone, just in front of Thomas Tayton and family. Next photo is a close up of Thomas Tayton stone.
In the first photo below, with all the graves, the darker stone on the right, next to Thomas and Ralph Fraser, is for who I think is another brother in law to Ralph, Robert Tayton (buried 1871, 85 years old). I thought they were all in the same Tayton grave, but they are separate but next to each other. Just increase size to see what can be read on Robert Tayton's family stone.
From the registers, buried in Robert Tayton's lair are:
1848 - Frances Corby, his wife
1858 - Jane Tayton, his daughter. Aged 41.
1884 - William Tayton, his son. Aged 66.
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In the collection of death notices, I noticed one in particular which mentioned a nephew of Ralph Fraser's called J Tayton, living at 6 Hanover Street, Portsea.
His name was James Tayton born c. 1803 in St Ann's Soho, London. He married a Catherine Flood in Portsea in 1839. On the parish entry for the marriage, his father is given as a John Tayton, a clerk at
Somerset House.
1839 Marriage in Portsea www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6NX6-JZHM
See also www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68W7-Z28M
1861 Census entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWMQ-BRS
One for another day....
Monica
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OMGoodness… Thank you Monica.
I’m sure you are totally unaware of what you’ve actually done…, and without exaggerating, I am certain that HRH The Duke of Kent will get to know. (he’s the Colonel of the Regiment) Let me explain.
Following the publication of my book, (perhaps in May) RHQ has promised to help a retired Scots Guards friend of mine who, as a hobby, cleans-up tombstones of fallen regimental comrades. It is ‘programmed’ that he will preoccupy himself with the tombstone of the infamous Matthew Clay.
This is premeditated because the BBC will surely be interested in the work, as it makes up part of my ambition to recover 49 Guards Brigade Waterloo Medals for the Guards Museum. Of course, filming a clean tombstone will have a trickle-down effect in relation to public relations and recruitment. But now…, there is more than one tombstone. What an amazing discovery ! You are incredibly lucky to be within walking distance of the cemetery.
At Hougoumont, (on Wellington’s forward right flank) Matthew Clay was in ‘my’ Light Company, (Left Flank) and Ralph had been one of the first to be transferred to reinforce the company. In fact, Ralph made up part of the Colour Party…, and during the night prior to the battle, Brigade HQ had decided to transfer the whole battalion to the farm, because they knew that reinforcements would be impossible when squares were needed against Maréchal Ney’s Cavalry. As a consequence, the Colours were abandoned, and the 3rd Company with the Colour Party including Ralph, was one of the first to be send down. Ralph then found himself fighting alongside the young Matthew. And he also provided a shoulder to hold back the second breach of the Northgate…, one of the most important events at Waterloo.
Monica…, you have just added another page to my book, plus more hours of research to get my Fraser Ancestry tree up to scratch. Lol…, and being a 76-year-old-thicky, that will take time.
If you don’t mind, I would like to PM you because RootsChat didn’t reply to my message. They are obviously very busy with so many members.
Lol…, I’ll print out that tombstone and slip it under my pillow tonight. ;D
Will need a few days to get my head around it all…, so no need to reply. I’ll get back to you and this post next week.
Have a nice week end. Kind Regards…, Iain.