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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 13 February 24 15:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 13 February 24 15:06 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone!
(it's nice to be back to RootsChat after a long time)

I need the help of the Experts because I can't find anything about the parents of Jemima Mountford who was sister to my ancestor Sarah Mountford. This is what I have found:

Baptism of Jemima "Mumford"
Birth date: 27 Dec 1828   Christening: 4 Jan 1829 at Wolstanton
Father’s name: Thomas "Mumford",    Mother’s name: Ann Lawton.
Another source gives the christening at Tunstall.

1841 Census shows: Thomas Mountford, wife Ann, eldest son Aaron, and daughters Sarah and Harriet, living at Hamill (Burslem)

1851 Census shows: Ann Mountford (head), son Aaron and daughters Jemima, Sarah and Harriet, living at Union Street (Burslem).

I can't find any marriage between Thomas or Thos Mountford and Ann Lawton, or any birth of Ann Lawton at Biddulph. Can anybody help me, please?
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 13 February 24 15:09 GMT (UK)
I am after anyone who is related to Joseph Mountford as i believe  i may have found my Grt grt grandmother  working for them as a farm servant , her name was Jemima , and seeing as i cant find her anywhere else in 1841 and this matches her age etc  i wonder if she was related to them . As i would like to find out more about her parents .
Little Blue

Quoted from the post: "Joseph Mountford of Brown Edge".
This could be her... I don't know... ???
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 13 February 24 15:26 GMT (UK)
There is a baptism on FindMyPast

4.12.1803 St Lawrence Biddulph Ann Lawton parents Hannah and William

There is also a marriage on Ancestry 14.7.1818 Ann Boulton to a Thomas Mountford at St Michael Horton but that makes it a bit tight for her to be married twice by that age of 15 (he was of Stoke she was of Horton)

How sure are you that her maiden name was Lawton?

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 13 February 24 15:35 GMT (UK)
Also Harriet and Sarah's GRO records both have the MMN as Mountford

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 13 February 24 17:13 GMT (UK)
Also Harriet and Sarah's GRO records both have the MMN as Mountford

Willow x

I am confused, they appear to have been born before registration  :-\.   In 1841 they are age 9 & 6
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 13 February 24 17:18 GMT (UK)
1851 census Sarah born 1840 Harriet born 1838

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 13 February 24 17:29 GMT (UK)
I am obviously looking at a different entry to you for 1851.  The image I am looking at has Jemima 21, Sarah 19 and Harriet 13
H0107/2003 f456 p44 - Union Street, Burslem
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 13 February 24 17:51 GMT (UK)
The entry for Jemima Mumford is a non conformist entry on FindMyPast
Wesleyan Chapel.

Non Conformist entries are not all on line. 
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 13 February 24 17:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow, and hi Rosie!
Thank you both for your help!!!

1. How sure am I that her maiden name was Lawton? Not sure at all.
Since I have only found the baptisms of Jemima and Sarah: "Sarah Mountford, daughter of Thos Mountford and Ann.
Date: 11 Dec 1831. At Newchapel, Staffordshire." I have only the surname given in Jemima's baptism.

2. I think, like Rosie, that this is the family of Sarah Mountford (the one living at Union Street).

I have another clue: Daniel Lawton married Sarah Mountford at Saint Margaret’s Church, Wolstanton. Date: 11 Jul. 1853. Her father’s name was Thomas Mountford. She lived at Knutton Heath (now Cross Heath), and Daniel lived at Knutton. Both were of age.


Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 13 February 24 19:30 GMT (UK)
1861 census for Aaron in household of married Jemima
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWMD-6J8

1st marriage 12 May 1851 Wolstanton
James Rowley of age bach miner Red Street, father Thomas Rowley brickmaker
Jemima Mountford of age spinster Red Street father Thomas Mountford labourer
witnesses Daniel Lawton and Sarah Mountford, James signed, the others by mark.

2nd marriage 17 Nov 1856 St Peter's Stoke on Trent
Elijah Ratcliff 28 bach potter Hanley father George Ratcliff potter
Jessica Rowley 26 widow Hanley father Thomas Mountford collier
witnesses Daniel & Sarah Lawton, all marked

3rd marriage 6 March 1873 Wolstanton
Samuel Nicklin 30 widower farmer Wolstanton father Samuel Nicklin farmer
Jemima Ratcliffe 41 widow Wolstanton father Thomas Mountford labourer
witnesses George Holmes & Esther Riley, all signed except Jemima


Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Wednesday 14 February 24 14:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much osprey!
That was impressive!!! Never thought there would be a third marriage!  :o

Sarah also married twice: to Daniel Lawton 11 Jul. 1853, and to Joseph Price 1864.
Harriet I guess only once to Joseph Haynes 26 Jun 1854 at Burslem.
And Aaron never married.

I would love to see all the details of all of these marriages too!
It was curious to see Daniel Lawton and Sarah Mountford as witness at the first marriage of Jemima (both single) and then again as witnesses at the second one (but then married).  ;)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 14 February 24 14:36 GMT (UK)
Harriet married twice.
First to Joseph Haynes/Haines 1854
Second to Joseph Aves 1869 at Wolstanton (Eaves on census records)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 14 February 24 15:43 GMT (UK)
Dont know how I ended up on the wrong census but there are another Thomas and Ann in Norton Le Moors (he is a miner) who had like a trillion kids! but off FindMyPast there is the following

at the Wesleyan Methodist Church 4.1.29 baptism of Jemima Mumford born 27.12.1828 parents Thomas of Tunstall in the parish of Wolstanton labourer and Ann his wife daughter of Charles and Hannah Lawton

24.5.1821 at St Bartholomew's Norton Aaron Mountford parents Thomas and Ann of Newhays Wood labourer (the other Thomas and Ann had a daughter Maria baptised two days later)

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 14 February 24 20:37 GMT (UK)
11 July 1853 St Margaret's Wolstanton
Daniel Lawton of age bach collier Knutton Heath father Thomas Lawton collier
Sarah Mountford of age spin Knutton Heath father Thomas Mountford collier
witnesses Harriet Mountford & Joseph Cooper, all marked except Joseph

If the second marriage is a parish marrige, it's not one of the churches online at Findmypast.

26 June 1854 Burslem parish church
Joseph Haynes 29 bach blacksmith Burslem father Joseph Haynes saddler
Harriet Mountford 20 spin Burslem father Thomas Mountford farmer
witnesses Edward & Ann Clarke, Edward & joseph signed, Ann & Harriet by mark

19 April 1869 St Margaret's Wolstanton
Joseph Aves 35 bachelor collier Chesterton father John Aves collier
Harriet Haines 34 widow Wolstanton father Thomas Mountford labourer
witnesses Samuel Oakes & Louisa Hough, only Samuel signed


Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 15 February 24 08:49 GMT (UK)
You need to be carful because there are three Thomas's all around the same area at that same time

Thomas and Ann - Thomas is a labourer
Thomas and Ann - Thomas is a collier
Thomas and Harriet - Thomas is a farmer

The Lawton marriage list his occupation as a collier which isn't the family listed with Aaron in 1841/51 so if the Lawton marriage line is the one you are following then you need to look again

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: John Sheldon on Thursday 15 February 24 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone!
(it's nice to be back to RootsChat after a long time)

I need the help of the Experts because I can't find anything about the parents of Jemima Mountford who was sister to my ancestor Sarah Mountford. This is what I have found:

Baptism of Jemima "Mumford"
Birth date: 27 Dec 1828   Christening: 4 Jan 1829 at Wolstanton
Father’s name: Thomas "Mumford",    Mother’s name: Ann Lawton.
Another source gives the christening at Tunstall.

1841 Census shows: Thomas Mountford, wife Ann, eldest son Aaron, and daughters Sarah and Harriet, living at Hamill (Burslem)

1851 Census shows: Ann Mountford (head), son Aaron and daughters Jemima, Sarah and Harriet, living at Union Street (Burslem).

I can't find any marriage between Thomas or Thos Mountford and Ann Lawton, or any birth of Ann Lawton at Biddulph. Can anybody help me, please?
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: John Sheldon on Thursday 15 February 24 15:22 GMT (UK)
I don't have any details of Jemima of the Burslem family but this might help.
Jemima Mountford (baptised 1789 at Norton), married 1820 to Joseph Jones at Norton. Daughter of Joseph and Ann Brindley.
Jemima baptised 1829 at Norton - daughter of (Joseph the son of Joseph above)and Mary Sherratt. 1841 and 1851 with parents and siblings (no Sarah) at Lower Stone House Farm, Brown Edge. Not followed up on Jemima after1851 but parents and other siblings were farming at Endon in 1861 and 1871. Eldest son Hugh took over the farm on the death of his father and by 1891 Hugh, with his own family, were farming at Barlaston.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 15 February 24 15:45 GMT (UK)
Have we ever established a baptism for Sarah Mountford? year of birth on the 1861 census says 1832 at Chell

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 15 February 24 18:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much to all for your help!!!
You have made amazing discoveries!!!  :o

Sarah Mountford (daughter of Thos Mountford and Ann) was baptized 11 Dec 1831 at Newchapel, Staffordshire (a bit further north from Chell).  :)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 16 February 24 14:13 GMT (UK)
Thomas was buried 18.9.1849 at St John Burslem aged 63

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Saturday 17 February 24 12:35 GMT (UK)
Another interesting clue: there is a family tree created on FamilySeach that could be related to Jemima's. Knowing Jemima was, in the 1841 Census, aged 12 and living/working with Joseph Mountford's family, I wanted to know if there was any connection... I found this:

Joseph Mountford Male 1796 – 7 September 1879 G7WC-SLS:

Parents: Joseph Mountford (1759) and Ann Brindley (1763), which had 4 children:
Sarah Mountford (christened 29 May 1785 Norton le Moors),
Thomas Mountford (christened 25 Nov 1787 Norton le Moors),
Jemima Mountford (christened 23 May 1790 Norton le Moors), and
Joseph Mountford (christened 15 March 1796 Norton le Moors).

It would fit nicely: Thomas and Ann naming two of their daughters as Thomas' sisters (Jemima and Sarah), and sending young Jemima to live with his younger brother Joseph and family.  :)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Sunday 18 February 24 20:18 GMT (UK)
Could anyone please check the details of these 3 marriages?
(Maybe in one of them the father of Ann/Anne is Charles Lawton, or one of the witnesses is Joseph Mountford 1796)

Thomas Mountford & Ann Brayford, 16 Feb 1807 at Norton-le-Moors,

Thomas Mountford & Anne Boulton, 14 Jul 1818 at Horton, and

Thomas Mountford & Anne Ammons, 5 Aug 1822 at Hanley.

Thank you in advance!!!  :D
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: osprey on Sunday 18 February 24 21:26 GMT (UK)
Names of fathers & their occupations appear on marriage entries from 1 July 1837, so those marriages are too early to have the detail.

1807 marriage, both of Burslem, witnesses John Keeling & Wm Steel - he may have been the parish clerk as he witnessed several marriages on the register page

1818 marriage Thomas of Stoke, witnesses James Rogers & Thomas Crompton

Can't see 1822 marriage details online.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 18 February 24 23:50 GMT (UK)
Thomas Mountford & Anne Ammons, 5 Aug 1822 at Hanley.
Can't see 1822 marriage details online.

FreeREG has transcribed the 1822 marriage
https://www.freereg.org.uk/


Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Monday 19 February 24 14:55 GMT (UK)
Then I can only think of searching for Charles Lawton and Hannah parents of Ann, as stated on the baptism of Jemima Mountford:

"at the Wesleyan Methodist Church 4.1.29 baptism of Jemima Mumford born 27.12.1828 parents Thomas of Tunstall in the parish of Wolstanton labourer and Ann his wife daughter of Charles and Hannah Lawton" [quoted from Willow].

Ann Mountford (née Lawton?) stated in the 1851 census that she was born at Biddulph.
Her birth year would probably be 1792-1796 (from the 1841 Census), 1805 (from the 1851 Census),
and from the burial of Ann Mountford, 14 Aug 1860 at Wolstanton, age 65. It would be 1795.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Monday 19 February 24 19:59 GMT (UK)
I have found a possible 5th child of Thomas Mountford and Ann:

William Mountford baptized Mar 1827 at Burslem, father's name: Thos Mountford, mother's name: Ann
William Mountford, age 0, birth 1827, death 1827, buried 28 Oct 1827 at Burslem.

Could someone please check if there are any more details? (mother's surname, etc).
Thanks!
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Monday 19 February 24 20:11 GMT (UK)
And maybe a 6th child:  :o

Hannah Mountford baptized Feb 1825 at Burslem, father's name: Thomas Mountford, mother's name: Ann.
Hannah Mountford, age 0, birth 1824, death 1825, buried 22 Jun 1825 at Burslem.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Monday 19 February 24 20:28 GMT (UK)
The burial details of Hannah Mountford on the 22 Jun 1825, give the "Burial person abode as Burslem".

And the burial details of William Mountford on the 28 Oct 1827, give the "Burial person abode as Tunstall".

On the baptism of both of them, the father's occupation is Collier.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 20 February 24 14:19 GMT (UK)
The 1861 Census gives Aaron Mountfort, age 32, coal miner, unmarried, born at Marton  ???
I wonder if it could be a transcript error, and instead be Norton...?

Aaron Mountford baptism 24 May 1821 at Norton-le-Moors,
father's name: Thomas, mother's name: Ann.


What do you think?
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 20 February 24 14:43 GMT (UK)
The burial details of Hannah Mountford on the 22 Jun 1825, give the "Burial person abode as Burslem".

And the burial details of William Mountford on the 28 Oct 1827, give the "Burial person abode as Tunstall".

On the baptism of both of them, the father's occupation is Collier.

This is what I meant about being careful that you are following the right family. Thomas (who was a collier) and Ann baptised lots of children at Norton le Moor

That is what bothered me about Sarah saying her father was a collier on her marriage certificate as they also had a daughter called Sarah born 1829

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 20 February 24 14:45 GMT (UK)
Oooooh just found a Thomas Mountford born 1796 Norton on the 1851 census listed as a Labourer and widow with his brother in law Richard Adams

and the possible Thomas who is a collier born 1791 is still alive in 1851 and living with his daughter Maria and family who married a Ralph Mountford

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 20 February 24 14:59 GMT (UK)
I see what you mean Willow...
I think there were also 2 Jemima's born in 1829 (more or less both), one the daughter of Thomas and the other one daughter of Joseph.

I don't know if this was common then: for two brothers to name their respective daughters (born more or less at the same time) with the name of their sister Jemima...  :o
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 20 February 24 15:07 GMT (UK)
if you look for Thomas Mountford born in Norton on the 1851 there are loads  ;D I think every family named all the kids the same lol

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:52 GMT (UK)
I did that for 1841...  ;D
This was my reasoning: we know Thomas Mountford was alive in 1841 but dead by 1851. We found a death of one Thomas Mountford 18 Sep 1849 at Burslem, aged 63. That would give the birth year 1786 or 1787... Now, how many Thomas Mountford were there in Staffordshire in 1841? UKCensusOnline gives me 70!

Here are the oldest ones: giving age, approximate birth year and occupation:
70   1771   -
60   1781   Independent
60   1781   -
55   1786   Agricultural Labourer
50   1791   Coal Miner
45   1796   Hatter
45   1796   Agricultural Labourer
40   1801   Coal Miner
40   1801   Shoe Maker

One stands out!...  :)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:56 GMT (UK)
"Ages in the 1841 Census:
The census takers were instructed to give the exact ages of children but to round the ages of those older than 15 down to a lower multiple of 5. For example, a 59-year-old person would be listed as 55. Not all census enumerators followed these instructions."

Quoted from FamilySearch

Reflecting about this, maybe the Coal Miner was 54 years old (born about 1787) but had to state 50 on the census...

But, on the other hand, Willow said the Thomas Mountford born in 1791 and who was a collier, was still alive in 1851. So this would rule him out, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 13:15 GMT (UK)
Might have to go back to basics a bit why do you think Jemima is the sister of your Sarah?

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 13:40 GMT (UK)
Right a bit more information but I dont know how this will fit until we can confirm which Thomas was the father of Sarah

13.3.1831 at St Margarets Wolstanton Joseph son of Thomas and Ann Mountford farmer of Knutton Heath

31.7.1814 St Lawrence Biddulph Elizabeth daughter of Charles and Hannah Lawton farmer of Flood

17.6.1821 St Lawrence Biddulph Charles son of Ann Lawton spinster of Horton Hay House

Interestingly there is a marriage of a Charles Lawton bachelor to Hannah Boot widow 7.2.1814 at St Lawrence - maybe a quick dash up the aisle for these two?

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 22 February 24 15:03 GMT (UK)
Might have to go back to basics a bit why do you think Jemima is the sister of your Sarah?
Willow x
I'm asking myself the same question...!?
My reasoning is as follows:
-Daniel Lawton and Sarah Mountford (both my ancestors) married in 1853
-Her father's name was Thomas Mountford.
-Both Daniel and Sarah appear as witnesses in 2 of the 3 marriages of Jemima Mountford.
-Jemima's father's name is also Thomas Mountford
-Jemima appears in the 1851 census with mother Ann, brother Aaron, and sisters Sarah and Harriet.
-The 1841 census includes Thomas Mountford, wife Ann, and Aaron, Sarah and Harriet.
-The 1861 census gives Sarah's place of birth as Chell.
-Baptism of Sarah Mountford in Newchapel gives parents' names: Thomas and Ann.
-Baptism of Jemima Mountford gives also parent's names: Thomas and Ann.

It would help to find the baptism of Aaron and Harriet Mountford,
or a marriage between Thomas Mountford and Ann...
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 22 February 24 15:05 GMT (UK)
Another idea is to check all 9 Thomas Mountford living in 1841, and see how many have daughters named Sarah...  ???
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 15:08 GMT (UK)
Another idea is to check all 9 Thomas Mountford living in 1841, and see how many have daughters named Sarah...  ???

 ;D have fun lol

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 15:11 GMT (UK)
I'll do a bit more digging I suspect Ann Lawton and Thomas Mountford didnt marry which is causing the problem as well. I did wonder if the Charles and Hannah marriage relates to Ann could her surname actually be Boot but as her mother married Charles she went by the name of Lawton which is muddying the waters?

If the Joseph I found is the same family it might be another lead to follow I will look for Aaron and Harriet

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 22 February 24 15:13 GMT (UK)
13.3.1831 at St Margarets Wolstanton Joseph son of Thomas and Ann Mountford farmer of Knutton Heath
Willow x

On the marriage of Daniel Lawton to Sarah Mountford in 1853, it said that she lived at Knutton Heath (now Cross Heath I guess), and Daniel lived at Knutton.

They then went to live in Knutton next door to Daniel Lawton's father (also Thomas) and also next door to his sister Martha. All in High Street, Knutton (see 1861 census).

Congratulations Willow!!!  :) :o
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 15:54 GMT (UK)
That was what jumped out at me as well I havent found any others yet but I will keep on looking

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 22 February 24 16:42 GMT (UK)
Aarons baptism 31.5.1821 at St Barts Norton Le Moors parents Thomas and Ann of Newhays Wood
nothing for Harriet yet

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 22 February 24 20:25 GMT (UK)
I have just learned that Knutton Heath is not Cross Heath:
On a "Map Centre of Early Georgian OS map showing the area of: Burslem, City Of Stoke On Trent" (viewed on archiuk.com), one can see that Knutton Heath is next to Knutton.

Also this:
"There was an iron stone mine in Knutton as early as 1314.
Between 1686 and 1929 there was a forge on Knutton Heath at which flat round iron plates were hammered out to make frying pans, subsequently manufactured in nearby Newcastle.
http://www.places.staffspasttrack.org.uk/.../child.asp...
http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/.../default.asp...
By the early 19th century a number of pits had been opened in the surrounding area to produce iron ore and coal for the blast furnaces.The population rose from 1,918 in 1851 to 4,464 in 1861 due to the establishment of these new ironworks."


[Quoted from https://www.facebook.com/KnuttonCommunityPage/posts/a-briefish-history-of-knutton-village-can-you-think-of-anything-that-should-be-i/804886189582415/]

Maybe this would explain that Thomas Mountford ("a farmer of Knutton Heath" in 1831 when his son Charles was born), became a collier...  ???
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Thursday 22 February 24 21:05 GMT (UK)
A few more clues that I have about Sarah Mountford / Lawton / Price:

1861 Census: Sarah Lawton, wife, 29 (b.1832) from Chell (living at High Street, Knutton)
1871 Census: Sarah Price, wife-mother, 40 (b.1831) from Chesterton (living at 127 Sandford St)
1881 Census: Sarah Price, wife-mother, 50 (b.1831) from Burslem (living at Mile House)
1891 Census: Sarah Price, wife-mother, 60 (b.1831) no place of birth (at Mile House Inn)
1901 Census: Sarah Price, wife, 70 (b.1831) from Blackbull (living at 19 Liverpool Rd, Cross Heath)

And I never found her after that, or knew the year she died...  :'(

Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Friday 23 February 24 13:48 GMT (UK)
Could this be her?:

Burial of Sarah Price, age 88, DEC-1919 at Wolverhampton.
Birth Year (Estimated):   1831
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 13:57 GMT (UK)
This may be Ann's burial

14.8.1860 St Margarets Wolstanton Ann Mountford aged 65

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 14:04 GMT (UK)
Could this be her?:

Burial of Sarah Price, age 88, DEC-1919 at Wolverhampton.
Birth Year (Estimated):   1831

No she was born Sedgley on the 1911 census and was living on the Lea Road, Wolverhampton when she died

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 14:11 GMT (UK)
There is a death registered 1905 Wolstanton of a Sarah Price b 1833 know it is a couple of years off but people dont always get ages right

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Friday 23 February 24 14:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you Willow!
I was just looking at that one too!  ;D
It says age 72...
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 14:30 GMT (UK)
I cant find any burial details on line at the moment thought

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 14:39 GMT (UK)
Going backwards slightly have you seen the 1841 census for Charles Lawton and Hannah?

Living at Cobmore? Wolstanton all born in county

Charles Lawton 75 farmer
Hannah 65
Charles 23 ag lab
Mary 23
William Cole 18 M S
Elizabeth Bennett 13 F S
Harriet Lawton 2 months

if you have ancestry there is a tree on there for Charles Lawton but Hannah's side has wrong information on it

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 15:02 GMT (UK)
All at St Lawrence Biddulph

Burial 3.1.1845 Charles Lawton aged 79 Farmer of Cob Moor Wolston died 30.12.1844 of Paraletic (their spelling not mine) stroke
Burial 18.4.1852 Hannah Lawton aged 77 of Bradley Green widow of Charles Lawton farmer died 15.4.1852 of natural decay

Possibilities for Hannah's first/second husband
16.3.1811 burial of Thomas Boot aged 28 of Knypersley End
24.1.1808 burial of William Boot
11.5.1796 Richard Boulton of Horton

Possible marriages

13.12.1796 William Boot Husbandsman to Hannah Boulton widow
28.9.1794 Richard Boulton of Horton to Hannah Doorbar of Biddulph

29.11.1796 Lionel Boot to Hannah Cope

I suspect the marriage of Hannah is the one to William as I cant find a death for Lionel before 1814 when she remarried and I think Thomas was married to a Mary Cope 31.1.1802

baptism of Hannah Doorbar 5.10.1777 parents John and Ann

also there is the burial 14.6.1808 of a Catharine boot daughter of Hannah Boot widow

Hannah is on the 1851 census transcribed as H Lawton living in the household of her son Jas Lawton

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 23 February 24 16:05 GMT (UK)
And that has cracked it!!

Baptism 1.3.1795 at St Lawrence Ann daughter of Hannah and Richard Bolton

This is Ann Lawton mother of Jemima

She married Thomas in 1818 we found that out already

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Saturday 24 February 24 23:11 GMT (UK)
Many, many Congratulations Willow!!!   ;D
You've finally solved the mystery!!! (and it was a difficult one!)
I still can't believe the great amount of information you've discovered!...
Thank you so much for your invaluable help!!!  :D

(and thanks also to everyone else that helped!)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 February 24 12:16 GMT (UK)
 ;D do love a good mystery lol when I have a moment I’ll see what else I can find out poor Hannah losing two husbands quite early into the marriages

I think Charles father may have been called Joseph so I will have a look at that too

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Sunday 25 February 24 14:04 GMT (UK)
I've made a CHRONOLOGY with all the dates, places and names, plus some more information. It may be of use for anyone (present or future) researching this family:  :)

  1 Jan 1775   Baptism at Biddulph of Catharine Doorbar*, daughter of John Doorbar and Ann
  5 Oct 1777   Baptism at Biddulph of Hannah Doorbar, daughter of John Doorbar** and Ann
   
28 Sep 1794   Marriage: Richard Boulton from Horton and Hannah Doorbar from Biddulph.
  1 Mar 1795   Baptism at St. Lawrence of Ann "Bolton" daughter of Richard "Bolton" and Hannah.
11 May 1796   Burial at St. Lawrence, Biddulph of Richard Boulton, living at Horton.
   
27 Nov 1796   Marriage Banns: Hannah Boulton and William Boot, both from Biddulph.
13 Dec 1796   Marriage at St. Lawrence, Biddulph of William Boot and Hannah Boulton.
  5 Nov 1797   Christening at Biddulph of Mary Boot daughter of William Boot and Hannah.
  4 May 1800   Christening at Horton, Staffordshire of Lionel Boot son of William Boot and Hannah.
25 Nov 1804   Christening at Horton, Staffordshire of Harriet Boot daughter of William Boot and Hannah.
  9 Aug 1807   Christening at Biddulph of Catharine Boot daughter of William Boot and Hannah.
 24 Jan 1808   Burial at Biddulph of William Boot.
   
23 Jan 1814   Marriage Banns: Hannah Boot (widow) and Charles Lawton (bachelor), both from Biddulph.
  7 Feb 1814   Marriage at St. Lawrence, Biddulph of Charles Lawton and Hannah Boot.
                       (Daughter Ann Boulton would be 19 years old)
15 Feb 1818   Christening at Newchapel of Charles Lawton son of Charles Lawton and Hannah.
  25 Jul 1819   Christening at Wolstanton of Henry Lawton son of Charles Lawton and Hannah.
   9 Apr 1820   Christening at Newchapel of James Lawton son of Charles Lawton and Hannah.
   
  14 Jul 1818   Marriage of Thomas Mountford and Ann Boulton, at Horton.
24 May 1821   Baptism at Norton le Moors of Aaron Mountford son of Thomas and Ann.
  1 Feb 1825   Christening at Burslem of Hannah Mountford daughter of Thomas and Ann.
22 Jun 1825    Burial at Burslem of Hannah Mountford (born 1824, age 0).
12 Mar 1827   Christening at Burslem of William Mountford son of Thomas and Ann.
28 Oct 1827    Burial at Burslem of William Mountford (born 1827, age 0).
27 Dec 1828   Birth of Jemima "Mumford" daughter of Thomas "Mumford" and Ann "Lawton".
   4 Jan 1829   Baptism at Tunstall of Jemima Mountford.
 11 Dec 1831   Baptism of Sarah Mountford at Newchapel daughter of Thos Mountford and Ann.
             1834   Birth of Harriet Mountford daughter of Thomas and Ann.
   
1841 Census   Charles Lawton (75) b.1762-1766, Hannah Lawton (65) b.1772-1776, Charles Lawton
                         (23) b.1814-1818, Mary Lawton (daughter-in-law? 23), William Cole (18), Eliza Burnett (13),
                         and Harriett Lawton (0). All living at Cob More (Wolstanton & Burslem)
30 Dec 1844   Death of Charles Lawton (farmer) of "Paraletic stroke". Age 79.
   3 Jan 1845   Burial of Charles Lawton at St. Lawrence, Biddulph. Burial person abode: "Cob moor,
                         Wolston parish"
 15 Apr 1852   Death of Hannah Lawton (widow of Charles Lawton) of "natural decay". Age 77.
 18 Apr 1852   Burial of Hannah Lawton at St. Lawrence, Biddulph. Burial person abode: "Bradley Green"
   
18 Sep 1849   Burial of Thomas Mountford. Age 63. At Burslem.
14 Aug 1860   Burial of Ann Mountford. Age 65. At St. Margaret's, Wolstanton.
   
   *Catharine was the name of Hannah's sister and also her daughter (Catharine Boot).
   **There is a family tree made about John Doorbar on Family Seach (with lots of information!)
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 February 24 14:15 GMT (UK)
I dont know what sites you have access to so I will post what I can.  In relation to the Boultons FreeReg is good for deaths in Biddulph Ancestery not brilliant and FindMyPast hit and miss Ann is the only baptism for Richard and Hannah list on there all though we know she lost another daughter the same year as Richard

Following the Doorbar family a bit baptisms to John and Ann at St Lawrence

Catharine 1.1.1775
Elizabeth 12.1.1783
John 21.2.1780 died 15.12.1850 buried 18.12.1850

Possible baptism for John 17.8.1749 parents Richard and Hannah I cant find the burial but he left a will written 1790 probate 1795 in which he left everything to Ann but if she re-married it all went to John

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 February 24 14:18 GMT (UK)
I havent seen the tree on Familysearch but hopefully it will save you some time the one on Ancestry doesnt run right

marriage 17.7.1771 at Horton of John Doorbar aged 21 farmer of Biddulph to Ann Major aged 19 of Horton

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 February 24 14:38 GMT (UK)
Possible burial for Richard 2.12.1798 resident of Wolstanton baptised St Lawrence 19.11.1729 parents Daniel and Elizabeth. Daniel Durber married Elizabeth Robinson 11.2.1727 I will not bother putting further info for these two on because they are on FreeReg but if there is anything missing you will have to let me know

Richard married Hannah Boot 6.2.1748/49 at St Lawrence

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 February 24 15:06 GMT (UK)
Looking at your timeline Thomas was born c 1786 and his residence on the marriage is given as Stoke Ann was Horton but nothing definite is jumping out as his baptism

Charles Lawton baptised 1765 (date eligible) at St Lawrence parents James and Elizabeth

James Lawton married Elizabeth Cumberbatch 9.9.1756 both of Biddulph possible baptism of James 13.2.1731/1732 parents John and Lydia burial 27.7.1807 aged 76 possible burial of Elizabeth 20.12.1768 baptism 13.4.1732 parents John and Ann

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Monday 26 February 24 20:01 GMT (UK)
On FamilySearch I found a baptism for Thomas Mountford: 25 Nov 1787 at Norton le Moors, father's name: Joseph Mountford, mother's name: Ann.

Another person gives the source of this information as "St Bartholomew's records."
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 27 February 24 10:15 GMT (UK)
Think that one is a good bet and yes St Bartholomews is the church at Norton

This might be Josephs marriage

29.7.1783 at St Peter ad Vincula Stoke on Trent Joseph Mountford of Norton to Ann Brindley of Norton (no idea why they were married in Stoke - maybe Norton wasnt licenced for marriages)

Possible baptisms for Joseph and Ann at St Bartholomews (it gets a bit tricky as there is a couple with the same name baptising children at Stoke that I'm not sure is them so I will stick to the Norton ones)

23.5.1790 Jemima (looks like Thomas named his daughter after her aunt which is a good sign we are on the right track)
15.3.1796 Joseph
29.5.1785 Sarah

Possible burials Joseph 31.8.1818 aged 77 (1742) Ann 5.5.1837 aged 76 (1761)

There is a baptism of a Nancy Brindley 14.3.1762 at Norton parents Thomas and Mary - Nancy is an alternative name of Ann sometimes

The only baptism I can see for a Joseph in Norton is in 1731 so not sure on this one. Burials are a bit of a pain because they are all the National Burial Index on FindMyPast at the moment so don't always give ages and you havent got the parish record to look at either

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 27 February 24 12:50 GMT (UK)
Back to the Lawtons in Biddulph at St Lawrence

John Lawton married Lydia Copland 26.1.1725
Lydia (Lydy) buried 18.6.1759

if John was still alive when Lydia died he was buried 31.12.1784 (might have to check the baptisms to these two to see which other children they had because he would be near 90 when he died and the other two deaths are 1741 & 1743)

Lidea Copland baptised 7.8.1694 parents John and Ellin

Ellin was buried 11.3.1722

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: chr1st1an on Wednesday 28 February 24 00:14 GMT (UK)
I'm still wondering why we didn't find a baptism for Harriet Mountford...  ???

After much searching with no results, I saw on the 1851 Census that the approximate birth year was 1838, and it occurred to me that it could be listed on FreeBMD (since it could be after 1837)  8)  [It also says she was born at Oseworth, Staffordshire].

I found 3 possible births for Harriet Mountford:

SEP 1838   Harriet Mountford at Stoke on Trent,
DEC 1838   Harriet Montford at Newcastle under Lyme, and
DEC 1838   Harriett Mountford at Wolstanton.    :o
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 28 February 24 11:47 GMT (UK)
Useful trick is to register with the GRO site it lists mothers maiden name in the searches

The MMN's are Mountford Billings and Harris I suspect she was born early 1837 or she was never registered

but yes not finding the baptism is annoying and I have no idea where Oseworth is unless its misspelt and its Oswestry

Willow x
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: little blue on Friday 08 March 24 09:47 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for the information.  I've only just noticed your replies. I think they could have married in stoke as it may have been to look a bit posh  ;D I have another relative that came from the potteries who married at Astbury Church in Cheshire. I've not done much on my tree for years as I hit a brick wall , but since then more information has been released census wise .I need to re acquaint myself with my deceased relatives on my pc 🤣

Little blue
Title: Re: Jemima Mountford (1828)... Help needed!
Post by: Moragdon on Saturday 06 April 24 09:46 BST (UK)
An amazing amount of beautifully researched work and puzzling you’ve both done on this Ch1st1an and Willow, a delight to see. Also some aspects are very interesting for me, as I have many of those surnames in my Staffordshire & Cheshire family Tree.
I will see if those mentioned match up with those in my more distant branches. Thank you so much for the ‘List’ compilation too.
Best wishes.