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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: tillyann on Friday 16 February 24 04:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I have been researching my paternal ancestors and have managed to get as far back as my 3x great grandparents. I would really appreciate any assistance in tracing the McCoos back further. I intend visiting Ireland/Northern Ireland next year and would really like to know what area they came from. Were they from Armagh or did they just marry and settle there?
James McCoo b. 1824/25 marries Elizabeth Marlay (sic) in the record/ Marley. They marry 16 January 1851 in the Catholic Parish Church, Drumcree, Armagh. They have James, Elizabeth, Francis, Mary, Ann, Bridget, John and Felix -all born in Armagh. The eldest child James is my ancestor, born Oct 1849 and is baptised a Catholic in Armagh on 18 Oct 1849 where it states in the record margin that he is illegitimate.
His father James dies 25 Jan 1900 in Belfast aged 75.
Elizabeth Marley b. 1830 dies 18 August 1878 at Annagora, Armagh, Northern Ireland aged 50. A Sarah Ann Marley is present at her death.
Son James marries Isabella Reilly in Belfast on 20 Sept 1871 - (my 2xGG) and their daughter Mary A McCoo is my great grandmother. Mother of my grandmother Catherine Jane (Kathleen) Lowe who emigrates to Australia and marries in Melbourne.
Thanks again in advance for any help.
Tilly Ann.
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Here is the marriage - 16th January 1851 - James McCooe and eluzabeth Marlay/ey
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632568#page/106/mode/1up
There is a note re a dispensation below it but I don’t know if it applies to that marriage or the one below. Hopefully, someone can advise.
On the same page, there is a marriage of Joseph McCooe - 8th March and at the top of the adjacent page, Felix McCooe, 11th November 1850.
It might be worth noting these, although there are lots of McCoo/e in Drumcree records.
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Several children baptised on the same day to James and Elizabeth.
13th November 1873
John, Felix, Margaret - Ruth and Francis
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632569#page/45/mode/1up
*amended - Margaret -Ruth rather than Margaret,Ruth.
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Just linking the death of Elizabeth McCoo on 8 August 1878 at Annagora townland (in Drumcree civil parish).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020505/7195733.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/breagh/annagora/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5260723#map=13/54.4241/-6.5018
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A possible connection - 1873 death of Francis Marley, widower, Annagoora. The informant is Sarah Ann Marley.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020683/7257221.pdf
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Adding to the record for others reading-
...and their daughter Mary A McCoo is my great grandmother. Mother of my grandmother Catherine Jane (Kathleen) Lowe...
Mary McCoo marries John Lowe on 26 December 1895 at St Peter's RC Church, Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10541/5839773.pdf
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Thanks for looking into this for me Heywood.
I have also now seen that there was an Anthony McCooe that married within that short timeframe. Anthony Mc Cooe marries Mary McCann 12 May 1850, Felix McCooe marries Mary Ann McCann 11 Nov 1850, Joseph McCoo marries Elizabeth Clement 8 March 1851. I will see if I can link them in some way. Felix is a possibility as a brother but I'm just considering naming patterns there.
You have also uncovered that James and Elizabeth were cousins hence the dispensation for marriage.
Unfortunately the parish records only go back to 1844 so I can't look up their Baptisms.
Regards
Tilly Ann.
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A possible connection - 1873 death of Francis Marley, widower, Annagoora. The informant is Sarah Ann Marley.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020683/7257221.pdf
Sarah Ann Marley is also present at Elizabeth McCoo's death. A possible sibling of either James or Elizabeth?
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Just linking the death of Elizabeth McCoo on 8 August 1878 at Annagora townland (in Drumcree civil parish).
Thank you Kiltaglassan. It does appear that the family have deep connections to the Drumcree area.
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Adding to the record for others reading-
...and their daughter Mary A McCoo is my great grandmother. Mother of my grandmother Catherine Jane (Kathleen) Lowe...
Mary McCoo marries John Lowe on 26 December 1895 at St Peter's RC Church, Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10541/5839773.pdf
Oh, that's brilliant thank you. I have found Mary's cemetery record and so I know she died 27 July 1932 and is buried in Belfast Cemetery but none of us know what happened to John Lowe. I found his Pension Ledger last entry: D & D 15/6/26. Not sure where he died, what he died from or where he is buried unfortunately.
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I found his Pension Ledger last entry: D & D 15/6/26. Not sure where he died, what he died from or where he is buried unfortunately.
Tilly Ann,
Can you please attach a snippet of his Pension Ledger entry?.....and indicate where you found it so others can have a look at it and help you.
KG
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... I have found Mary's cemetery record and so I know she died 27 July 1932 and is buried in Belfast Cemetery but none of us know what happened to John Lowe. I found his Pension Ledger last entry: D & D 15/6/26. Not sure where he died, what he died from or where he is buried unfortunately.
Are you sure this is the right Mary? Based on religion I would have expected Mary to be buried in Milltown Cemetery in Belfast, rather than the City Cemetery. The information on the other occupants in plot H1 54 suggests that this might be a Mary Rainey rather than Mary McCoo.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t01/
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... I have found Mary's cemetery record and so I know she died 27 July 1932 and is buried in Belfast Cemetery but none of us know what happened to John Lowe. I found his Pension Ledger last entry: D & D 15/6/26. Not sure where he died, what he died from or where he is buried unfortunately.
Are you sure this is the right Mary? Based on religion I would have expected Mary to be buried in Milltown Cemetery in Belfast, rather than the City Cemetery. The information on the other occupants in plot H1 54 suggests that this might be a Mary Rainey rather than Mary McCoo.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t01/
Indeed, gaffy!
Unfortunately, this was not the death of your gt grandmother.
Rachel Lowe Birth Death 1908 (MMN Rainey)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01637/1654599.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05481/4535013.pdf
Robert Lowe Birth Death 1896-1897 (MMN Rainey)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02186/1827363.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05877/4666649.pdf
…..and Mary Lowe's widower William John died in 1949 as per GRONI. https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
D/1949/56/1007/41/322 William Lowe 6th March 1949 81 Male Belfast
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The last address for the Lowes I can see up to 19 October 1926, when their daughter Mary married Thomas McArdle, was 24 Marchioness Street in Belfast. This is consistent with John's army pension index card. Later Belfast street directories show a John Lowe at no. 30 in that street, so might just be related... (him or the son John?)
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James McCoo b. 1824/25 marries Elizabeth Marlay (sic) in the record/ Marley. They marry 16 January 1851 in the Catholic Parish Church, Drumcree, Armagh. They have James, Elizabeth, Francis, Mary, Ann, Bridget, John and Felix -all born in Armagh.
The son John McCooe arrived after the introduction of civil birth registration and his 1866 birth record gives their address as 'Curglass', which I think might be Corglass a.k.a. Aghanergill in Drumcree C.P., for Griffith's Valuation shows a James McCooe leasing a house there, the local print date was 1864.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03522/2295874.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/breagh/aghanergill/
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
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I found his Pension Ledger last entry: D & D 15/6/26. Not sure where he died, what he died from or where he is buried unfortunately.
Tilly Ann,
Can you please attach a snippet of his Pension Ledger entry?.....and indicate where you found it so others can have a look at it and help you.
It was on the Western Front Association site and I accessed it through Fold3 through another commercial site probably on Remembrance Day a couple of years ago. I can't access it now though.
https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/pension-records/
https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/669133961
KG
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Are you sure this is the right Mary? Based on religion I would have expected Mary to be buried in Milltown Cemetery in Belfast, rather than the City Cemetery. The information on the other occupants in plot H1 54 suggests that this might be a Mary Rainey rather than Mary McCoo.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t01/
[/quote]
Hi Gaffy,
Mary Lowe nee McCoo (who I am researching) was born 20 Dec 1869 in Belfast. She would be abt 62 when she died which is the age recorded for her on the Cemetery form I have.
I have done quite a bit of Irish research but Northern Ireland is still relatively new to me. I have collected bits and pieces of information but I am sorry to say that some of this I just don't have citations for. If William John Lowe is the potential son of the Mary in the grave then you are right because the Mary I'm looking for had children Isabella, John, Mary and Catherine Jane.
Mary and Catherine emigrated to Australia somewhere around 1929.
I've tried searching for them on GRONI website but not having any luck so far. I also looked at Find A Grave and nothing recorded for Milltown Cemetery but only about 31% of graves have been documented.
Tillyann.
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The last address for the Lowes I can see up to 19 October 1926, when their daughter Mary married Thomas McArdle, was 24 Marchioness Street in Belfast. This is consistent with John's army pension index card. Later Belfast street directories show a John Lowe at no. 30 in that street, so might just be related... (him or the son John?)
This appears right Gaffy. Mary was living at 24 Marchioness St when she receives a Widow's Pension on 11 June 1926 (this info came via the Western Front Association like the other entry I mentioned - free access through Fold3 at some point. Presumably then, Mary's marriage certificate would state John Lowe was deceased?
Tilly.
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...because the Mary I'm looking for had children Isabella, John, Mary and Catherine Jane.
Her children-
Isabella Lowe born 6 January 1897 at 4 Ton Street, Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02142/1813318.pdf
John Lowe born 1899, Mary Elizabeth born 1900, Mary Lowe born 1907, Jane Lowe born 1909, Francis Lowe born 1911.
http://tinyurl.com/3tv33ehd
You may have these census records for the Lowe family, but just adding them for others who might be following this thread-
Lowe family in 1901 census
House 34.1 in Sultan Street (Falls, Antrim).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls/Sultan_Street/952431/
1911 census - Lowe
House 38 in Ton Street (Falls (Belfast), Antrim).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Falls__Belfast_/Ton_Street/182091/
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...because the Mary I'm looking for had children Isabella, John, Mary and Catherine Jane.
Her children-
John Lowe born 1899, Mary Elizabeth born 1900, Mary Lowe born 1907, Jane Lowe born 1909, Francis Lowe born 1911.
http://tinyurl.com/3tv33ehd
Thank you Kiltaglassan.
I didn't have Francis. I've never heard of him. I only knew of 4 children although Mary had 5 according to the 1911 Census -4 living. No idea of who the other one was.
At first I didn't think Francis was theirs, but he has to be as it is the same address on the birth entry as the Census return. I'll have to quiz the only living relative I know (their granddaughter) about this. Interesting.
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James McCoo b. 1824/25 marries Elizabeth Marlay (sic) in the record/ Marley. They marry 16 January 1851 in the Catholic Parish Church, Drumcree, Armagh. They have James, Elizabeth, Francis, Mary, Ann, Bridget, John and Felix -all born in Armagh.
The son John McCooe arrived after the introduction of civil birth registration and his 1866 birth record gives their address as 'Curglass', which I think might be Corglass a.k.a. Aghanergill in Drumcree C.P., for Griffith's Valuation shows a James McCooe leasing a house there, the local print date was 1864.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03522/2295874.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/breagh/aghanergill/
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
Thank you Gaffy, that is brilliant.
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I didn't have Francis but I don't think he can be their child which is a pity because it would solve a mystery.
Why would he not be their child?
Born at 38 Ton Street ....... the address where they're living in the 1911 census. MMN McCoo and his father John Lowe, a labourer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01513/1614452.pdf
I knew from the 1911 Census that Mary had given birth to 5 children but I didn't know who the 5th one was. I have only ever known of 4.
The 1911 census indicates 5 children born, 4 still living.
Mary Elizabeth Lowe died on 29 April 1901 (~4 weeks after census) at 34 Sultan Street.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05730/4617243.pdf
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... Mary was living at 24 Marchioness St when she receives a Widow's Pension on 11 June 1926 ...
John Lowe died at 24 Marchioness Street, Belfast, of chronic bronchitis on 17 May 1926 at a reported age of 53, described as a married ex-soldier, the informant present at death was his daughter Mary of the same address, presumably the one who married Thomas McArdle 5 months later.
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Here is the marriage - 16th January 1851 - James McCooe and eluzabeth Marlay/ey
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632568#page/106/mode/1up
There is a note re a dispensation below it but I don’t know if it applies to that marriage or the one below. Hopefully, someone can advise.
On balance of probabilities, I think that the dispensation in the 3rd and 4th degrees of consanguinity pretty well has to apply to James and Elizabeth. It's not as if it has been squeezed in as an afterthought between two entries, rather it has been deliberately given its own space, so IMHO it logically follows the entry above, rather than pre-empting the entry below.
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John Lowe died at 24 Marchioness Street, Belfast, of chronic bronchitis on 17 May 1926 at a reported age of 53, described as a married ex-soldier, the informant present at death was his daughter Mary of the same address, presumably the one who married Thomas McArdle 5 months later.
I couldn't find a death notice online for him (which might confirm burial details) but I wouldn't rule out Milltown Cemetery. BTW, I noticed that a son of James McCoo junior and Maria Hanlon was buried in public ground at Milltown in 1887, so others like James senior who died in 1900 might be in the cemetery too.
I have limited knowledge of what it's like dealing with Milltown Cemetery - hopefully others reading will have some knowledge and can advise you. According to the information in the following forum link, you can ring them up and they will answer simple queries for free, but anything more than that, like details of who else is in a grave with someone, will cost you.
https://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=83718.0
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Why would he not be their child?
Born at 38 Ton Street ....... the address where they're living in the 1911 census. MMN McCoo and his father John Lowe, a labourer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01513/1614452.pdf
Sorry Kiltaglassan, I had altered the original reply I gave, we must have crossed. Francis is obviously their son. I have spoken to my Aunt (Kathleen Lowe's daughter) and this is all news to her. She is enjoying learning about the family though :)
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That's fantastic Gaffy, thanks. I will definitely follow up with the Milltown Cemetery. I might be in luck :)
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... BTW, I noticed that a son of James McCoo junior and Maria Hanlon was buried in public ground at Milltown in 1887, so others like James senior who died in 1900 might be in the cemetery too.
James junior's previous wife (and Mary McCoo's mother) Isabella Reilly McCoo is also buried there, the relevant record in the Public Ground Register for Milltown (1869 - 1895) gives a date of interment of 11 November 1878, and her residence was 54 Servia Street (Ref: Book 1, page 123, Sexton's No. 8752, Register No. 8831, Latitude = Sc, Longitude = 4)
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Several children baptised on the same day to James and Elizabeth.
13th November 1873
John, Felix, Margaret - Ruth and Francis
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632569#page/45/mode/1up
*amended - Margaret -Ruth rather than Margaret,Ruth.
Back to the children of James McCoo senior and Elizabeth Marley... I think the following is the civil registration of birth for Felix in 1872, again the address given was Corglass:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03252/2192076.pdf
I also think that this might have been their daughter Margaret Ruth's death at 23 Cyrus Street in Belfast in 1884:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06317/4811708.pdf
Described in the record above as the 14 year old daughter of James McCoo a labourer, the informant Ann Rice, described as a sister, fits with this marriage of Ann McCoo of 23 Cyprus Street to a James Rice in St. Peter's, Belfast, in 1882 (one witness was a Mary McCoo):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10980/8014336.pdf
And the exact same address for the marriage of Bridget McCoo to James McAnulty in St. Peter's, Belfast, some months earlier in 1882:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10964/8007911.pdf
I can't yet find a civil registration of birth c. 1870 for Margaret Ruth, perhaps someone else will.
No. 23 Cyprus Street was also mentioned in the marriage record of Mary McCoo (daughter of James senior and Elizabeth Marley) to James B(a/e)nnon in St. Peter's in 1883 - I know this is the correct Mary, because the church marriage record transcript identifies BOTH of Mary's parents:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10922/5990620.pdf
Anyhow, Margaret Ruth McCoo who died in 1884 was also buried in Public Ground at Milltown Cemetery in Belfast. There was also a Felix McCoo buried there on 7 May 1891 at a reported age of 18 and a recorded address of 41 Sultan Street, here is the relevant death registration (a brother John was the informant), I'm wondering if this could be the son Felix born in 1872 to James senior and Elizabeth Marley at Corglass (link above):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06074/4732195.pdf
Which ties in to the McCoos of Sultan Street in 1901:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls/Sultan_Street/952461/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls/Sultan_Street/952442/
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Great research, gaffy.
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Yes gaffy....you've brought a great lot of research together for tillyann.
Well done! :) :)
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James junior's previous wife (and Mary McCoo's mother) Isabella Reilly McCoo is also buried there, the relevant record in the Public Ground Register for Milltown (1869 - 1895) gives a date of interment of 11 November 1878, and her residence was 54 Servia Street (Ref: Book 1, page 123, Sexton's No. 8752, Register No. 8831, Latitude = Sc, Longitude = 4)
My goodness you've been busy Gaffy!
I knew so little about these people. All I can say is that for a small group of us here in Australia this information fills a huge gap in the knowledge of our lineage. I am so pleased that we now know where Isabella is buried and that you made me aware that I had the wrong Mary Lowe. I'd have visited the grave of the wrong person all together without you. Thank you so much :)
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Great research, gaffy.
I am very grateful for your input as well Heywood. Thank you :)
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Yes gaffy....you've brought a great lot of research together for tillyann.
Well done! :) :)
Thank you to you also Kiltaglassan. I am now able to visit places in Northern Ireland (when I visit next year) that I know are connected to my ancestors :)
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Just linking the death of Elizabeth McCoo on 8 August 1878 at Annagora townland (in Drumcree civil parish).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020505/7195733.pdf
Her death also appears in the Drumcree RC parish registers, so I'm guessing she was buried in the graveyard at St. John the Baptist, Drumcree.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632569#page/94/mode/1up (left page near bottom)
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Just linking the death of Elizabeth McCoo on 8 August 1878 at Annagora townland (in Drumcree civil parish).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020505/7195733.pdf
[/quote
Her death also appears in the Drumcree RC parish registers, so I'm guessing she was buried in the graveyard at St. John the Baptist, Drumcree.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632569#page/94/mode/1up (left page near bottom)
Hi Gaffy,
Thanks,
I have been looking into the Church you mention. The old church is in the Ulster Museum so I'll definitely go and have a look when I'm there. So, Portadown seems to be the closest modern town to Annagora and Corglass - is that right?
Best wishes
Tillyann
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Yes, the graveyard is on the Dungannon Road, the new church was built immediately beside it, now facing onto a small roundabout where the Dungannon Road meets up with the Moy Road, Garvaghy Road and Corcrain Road.
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I have been looking into the Church you mention. The old church is in the Ulster Museum so I'll definitely go and have a look when I'm there.
Tillyann,
Here's a visitor map of the Ulster Folk Museum with Drumcree RC Church at number 38.
https://cms.nationalmuseumsni.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/Ulster%20Folk%20Museum%20Map%20-%20Mobile_1.pdf
https://www.ulsterfolkmuseum.org/visit
Ballyoran townland, Garvaghy Road and the new St John the Baptist RC Church.
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/portadown-rural/ballyoran/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5340470#map=14/54.4307/-6.4488
KG
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Thank you KG much appreciated :)