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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: MattB on Tuesday 20 February 24 15:03 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help please on where best to look for Roman Catholic baptisms in Limehouse?
I am specifically looking for a John Sullivan, son of Peter and Catherine Sullivan nee Carey, around 1856.
John married Mary O'Brien (daughter of James O'Brien, a retired policeman) in the Church of Our Lady and St Frederick in 1896, although their son, John Michael, had been born in September 1894 and they had stated they were married on his birth certificate.
I'm trying to find John's baptism (c 1856), and likely death between 1901 and 1919. And Mary Ann's likely death at the end of 1897.
It is possible that John Michael was placed into care at some point, so also seeking likely organisations that would have admitted Catholic children?
Grateful for any help.
Thanks
Matt
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Where did you get his mothers name & maiden name from?
Do you have the 1861 or 1871 census for the family? I can see 1861 & 1871 entries but mother is Mary
Where & when were Peter & Catherine married?
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Thanks for your reply. Family memory was that John Sullivan married Mary Ann O’Brien. This has been confirmed by John Michael’s birth certificate (cross matching with date of birth in 1939 Register), and the marriage of his parents (arrived last week).
Peter Sullivan married Catherine Carew/Carey in Schull, Cork in 1842.
I have their son John in the 1871, 1881, and 1891 censuses, and tentatively in the 1901.
1861 I think the family had gone back to Ireland on a visit.
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Found a Peter & Catherine Sullivan in Limehouse 1851 - both b Cork & eldest son Daniel aged 7 also b Cork
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Have you tried Find my Past for Catholic records?
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I may be entirely wrong about this :-\ My understanding is that RC churches did/do not have to submit their parish records in the same way that C of E churches did/do, and that therefore it is more than possible that the church has retained all their own registers.
I wish I could remember who I was researching when I found this information :-[
ADDED: I appear to be very wrong - FindMyPast have a lot of records :)
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I can see an 1871 entry for a widowed Catherine Sullivan b Glamorgan. Son John 16 & daughter Margaret 11 both b Limehouse
Presumably his marriage cert shows father as Peter - what was Peters occupation?
As there is no birth cert for John & no 1861 entry - how have you determined his mother was Catherine nee Carey?
There is no requirement on a birth cert to say whether or not the parents were married. Do you mean Mary Ann is shown as Sullivan nee O'Brien?
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1901 entry - note John's birthyear - not 1854 ::)
John Sullivan 38 (1863) widower b Shadwell - stevedore/dock labourer
John 6 son b Limehouse
Piece 323/66/40
No details given by you re Mary Ann's age.
Death Dec qtr 1897 Stepney - Mary Ann Sullivan aged 42. That would make her about 8yrs older than John
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1871 546 /109/7
Peter and Catherine Sullivan with several children b Scull plus ‘Jno’ 18 yrs.
There is a Daniel, 25 yrs so may be the one found in 1851.
There are Sullivans and Careys living next door.
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Thanks everyone who replied.
I did write a response earlier and then it disappeared, so here goes again.
I believe that John is the son of Peter Sullivan, a dock labourer, and his wife Catherine Carew/Carey, but I am trying to find John’s birth certificate and also baptism to confirm. I’ve been in touch with one cousin, a descendant of John’s brother, Patrick, born c 1863, who believes this to be true also.
Mary Ann is shown as Sullivan nee O’Brien on John Michael’s birth certificate. In the marriage certificate she is also recorded as being forty and the daughter of James O’Brien, a superannuated police constable. I agree that the 1897 death is probably her.
I know the age is off on the 1901 census but at present, this does seem likely to be them. But making no assumptions.
It’s possible that JM is then with John Caton in 1911 but I haven’t established the link yet, although it states nephew.
I’ll apply speculatively for a couple of certificates but wonder where the RC parish records are. John and Mary Ann married at the church of Our Lady and St Fredrick in 1896 but I think that church was fairly recent then and may not have John’s baptism in the 1850s.
Two of John Michael’s sons are alive and in their nineties. I might have to try and persuade them to do a dna test.
Again thanks for all help so far.
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Can you confirm that the 1896 marriage cert shows John's father as Peter as you say "I believe that John is the son of Peter Sullivan a dock labourer" which suggests uncertainty
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Yes, I have it and it does. I meant that I believe that it is the Peter in the census. Hopefully finding John’s birth will help confirm the mother.
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Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
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Mary Sullivan and William Driscoll.
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Find my Past, Westminster diocese baptisms shows these baptisms about the right time with father, Peter.
1848 Maria Anna Sullivan - church Stepney, Commercial Road, St Mary and St Michael
1851 Joannes Sullivan - the same church
1856 Elizabetha Sullivan - Stepney, John Street, Commercial Road East, Our Blessed Lady of Loretto
There is a birth for Elizabeth with mmn Carey
I can’t see the others with mmn Carey
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I think that this is the death certificate for John in 1910. Frustratingly can't seem to find a newspaper report, and not certain which coroner's district this was - I suspect they don't have records for 1910 anyway but have sent an enquiry to LMA.
Grateful for any help/thoughts on what other records may be work checking in case I'm missing anything.