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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Harlem on Tuesday 19 March 24 13:54 GMT (UK)
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I am a volunteer researcher for the Quilters’ Guild of the British Isles. Those of us with some experience in genealogy use internet resources to see if we can find out anything about the quilters whose quilts are in the Guild’s museum collection.
I am currently trying to find out something about Eliza Parkinson (nee Madder), from Dalkey near Dublin. She is said to have lived between 1787 and 1871, and she was married to Dr. James Richard Parkinson. The quilt has a note which says that it was either made by her or by her Mother, Catherine Madder (nee Reeves). There is quite a lot of information about this family on An*****y public trees and other websites, but I think some of it is confused. Many people, for example, have James Parkinson as a shoemaker. No-one seems to be able to find the Parkinson-Madder marriage. Do any of you have any ideas of where I might look for it?
If anyone has an interest in this family, I would be happy to correspond.
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There are quite a few newspaper articles that mention James Richard PARKINSON - I don't have access to read them all - you can find them on findmypast or British Newspaper Archive (both subscription sites). Some seem to involve estate matters, there is a marriage notice for his son Henry Madder PARKINSON, barrister at law to Herietta FLOOD in 1858. James is described as surgeon of Tudor House, Dalkey. He died in 1894, "late of Balltharan House", Wexford.
Eliza died 26 Dec 1871 at Tudor House, Dalkey, her death notice:
The Belfast Newsletter
28 Dec 1871
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For interest, a description of Tudor House, Dalkey from 1876
Friday, Oct. 6, 1876
Publication: Freeman's Journal
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Eliza's death certificate, says she was 84, so yes, born c1787.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020749/7279425.pdf
James' death certificate:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05947/4690049.pdf
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I notice that James Richard PARKINSON attained Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons (England) in 1834. Does this mean he was resident there at that time? Perhaps he married Eliza in England? I can't see a birth for son Henry Madder PARKINSON in Ireland. :-\
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Thank you, Maddys52.
The Guild's curator dates the quilt to around 1800-1820, so probably too early for Henrietta to have been involved in making it. A*****y trees have a wonderful photo of her, though, in a voluminous dress. So maybe she was interested in clothing, sewing, fabric??
The house description is interesting. Clearly, they had money, so the quilt is not of the 'make do and mend' variety, but likely the product of middle class women having the time to do it.
Thanks for the death certificates, which will go into the Guild's archive. I cannot find their marriage in England. Would it be easy to get a copy of Irish wills? It is a simple (and cheap!) process in England. I confess I haven't tried yet
There seems to be an England connection, though. James and Eliza only had one child that I can find, Henry Madder Parkinson, said to have been born 1829, which would make Eliza in her 40s at the time. Possible but unusual. I cannot confirm his birth, though. He seems to have died in Dorset, England in 1908.
Thanks you for your interest in this.
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I'm sorry I don't know about obtaining an Irish will.
There certainly does seem to be some connection England. Assuming the ages on the death certificates are accurate, there does seem to be quite an age difference between Eliza and James Richard PARKINSON. I wonder if she had been previously married? I'm assuming most people think her maiden name was MADDER as this is her child's middle name - it may not be though. Shame we can't find a record of their marriage - either a certificate or a newspaper announcement. Will have another look.
Modified to add:
Just re-reading your original post, I see that you have a note that the quilt may have been by Eliza's mother Catherine MADDER - does the note actually show this name?
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I see that there is a marriage bond between Henry MADDER and Catherine REEVES in 1785 in the Cork and Ross County.
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Good find, maddys52 :)
Cork and Ross Diocese
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t2k/
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dm/IRE_DIOC_007246533_00120.pdf
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Hi all, and thank you for your interest.
The note on the back of the quilt says that the quilt may have been made by Eliza Parkinson, but was 'probably' made by her mother Mrs. Madder, and Reeves is crossed out, or by her Grandmother, Mrs. Reeves. To my mind, this confirms Eliza as born Eliza Madder, and her Mother was born Reeves. And that means that the marriage you have found is probably right for Eliza's parents. It doesn't really help with her birth, though. The dates are difficult to reconcile. I cannot find Eliza's birth, and Ancestry trees have her as born either 1787 or, some people have, 1805. I have posted an alleged photo of Eliza in the photo dating thread, but if you look at that, you will see that people doubt the dates, as did the Guild's curator.
I am grateful for all ideas!
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I think that the death certificate for Eliza is probably fairly accurate - the Registrar was her husband. So I would think that a birth date of c 1787 is accurate. Especially if a marriage of likely parents is 1785. As you have found, always take Ancestry trees with a grain of salt!
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I can't find a relative burial record, however there is this death notice in 1791:
"In Limerick, Mr. Henry Madder, merchant"
Monday, Sept. 19, 1791
Publication: Star and Evening Advertiser
May not be related at all, hard to tell. :-\
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There are also numerous newspaper advertisements from the Incumbered Estates Commission which mention "JUDGMENTS AGAINST SIR JOHN JUDKIN FITZGERALD VIZ:
... Trinity Term, 1813 - Catherine Madder, £2,000 ..."
eg Wednesday, Jan. 12, 1853
Publication: Cork Examiner
So I'm assuming this Catherine MADDER was owed £2000 in 1813, and people were being invited to come forward and make a claim now that an Estate of John BENNETTS and Freeman CROFTS was being to sold to gererate funds for its creditors? (I may have this wrong, not really an economic or legal mind!)
Again, doesn't help with the creator of the quilt, but at least a possible mention of her, and interesting that it is Catherine who is owed the money rather than a husband, implying she was a widow?
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Thank you, Maddys52.
I rarely look at the name of the registrar! But my husband spotted it too. I think that means we can accept 1787 as Eliza's birthdate, and not the dates in some A*****y trees. It's good to be able to accept something as most probably reliable.
That also means Eliza may well have contributed to the quilt. The Guild dates it to 1790-1810. Girls were taught to sew very young in those days, so I think we can suggest that she helped to make it with help and training, probably, from her mother, perhaps her grandmother and aunts.
Eliza's son seems to have move to Weymouth, so that may account for the quilt being in England. I am much more familiar with English records than Irish, so I can research descendansts i think. My research focus has now switched, though, to Catherine and her mother, because I would like to at least identify some of the women in the family who might have contributed to the quilt. Your find of Catherine receiving a financial settlement suggests they had money and were well connected. I shell press on, and thanks again
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Have found another couple of records that may be related:
There is a Bill book in the Court of Chancery records 31 Oct 1793 which (I think) has Catherine MADDER and Robert REEVES in an action against Richard Ford ROYCE.
Another bill on 7 June 1797 for Cath. MADDER against various names including MAUNSELL and BLACKISTON.
(Someone more knowledgable about these records may be able to explain them better.)
Also a probate for a Catherine MADDER, widow of City of Cork in 1837.
Not sure about the probate record, but the Court of Chancery record does seem related, with the names MADDER and REEVES together.
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I can't find a relative burial record, however there is this death notice in 1791:
"In Limerick, Mr. Henry Madder, merchant"
Monday, Sept. 19, 1791
Publication: Star and Evening Advertiser
May not be related at all, hard to tell. :-\
Have found his probate - to "Catherine, the widow". :D
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Looking for records of a Catherine and Robert REEVES together, I see that there is a probate for a Grace SPAIGHT, widow of Limerick will dated 21 Feb 1764, probate 8 Aug 1765
"dau Catherine - dau Grace Reeves - son Samuel - eldest son Thomas - son [?]almes - Grandson Robert Reeves - Uncle Robert Burton Esq - Robert Reeves husband of gdau Grace - grandchildren Edward and Thomas Reeves"
Grace SPAYGHT married Robert REEVES 29 Nov 1748 at Malew, Isle of Man (transcription on Ancestry).
Robert REEVES baptised 21 Dec 1752 at St Matheus Chapel, Braddan, Isle of Man , parents Robert REEVES and Grace SPAYGHT. A number of other baptisms to this couple, unfortunately I can't see a baptism for Catherine.
I think Robert jnr marries Mary MAUNSELL 19 Sept 1782 in the Diocese of Cork & Ross. Her death notice in 1845 states she was the widow of Robert Reeves, Esq. of Merrion Square, South. A number of mentions of "Messrs. Reeves and Sons, Solicitors, Merrion Square, Dublin".
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I can't find a relative burial record, however there is this death notice in 1791:
"In Limerick, Mr. Henry Madder, merchant"
Monday, Sept. 19, 1791
Publication: Star and Evening Advertiser
May not be related at all, hard to tell. :-\
Have found his probate - to "Catherine, the widow". :D
Also found these tombstone inscriptions at Kilnarath Graveyard, Tipperary:
"Here lieth the body of Henry Madder of Limerick, son of the Revd John Madder, who depd this life September the 5th 1791 aged 37 years."
Also:
"Here lieth the body of Dorothea Madder, wife of the Revd. John Madder who departed this life Xber [sic] 1777 aged 52 years."
A note with the transcriptions:
"The above two headstones are in the Madder family vault which is very dark and in poor condition, there is possibly a third stone deeper within the vault."
https://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/C.%20Vol%205%20Parish%20of%20Kilnarath%20reduced.pdf
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OK, so my thoughts about the REEVES look pretty good (wish I'd seen this earlier ;) ):
"A genealogical and heraldic history of the landed gentry of Ireland" by Bernard Burke
https://archive.org/details/genealogicalhera00burkuoft/page/580/mode/2up?q=%22henry+madder%22
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For interest, Burke also says Rev John MADDER was married to Dorothea, daughter of George GOUGH of Woodstown, co Limerick (on page 645).
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Thank you again, Maddys52. Definitely landed gentry, then. i find that with these researches I can never find the quilt mentioned in any docs, even in wills. But what I do find is the community from which the quilt emerged, perhaps shopkeepers, including drapers, or people with skills like dressmakers and tailors. In this case, i think we have a fairly affluent community where women had time to sew, probably because some one else was doing the cooking and cleaning! So, I will try to identify the women who would have been around the Parkinson/Madder/Reeves family around 1800. Other economic information is important, too, because it tells me the lifestyle.
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Maddys52, I cannot interpret that Burke doc. Who do you think Catherine's parents are?!!!
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I think what is recorded in Burke's is that Robert REEVES (son of Robert REEVES and Mary BODELY) married Grace SPAIGHT (daughter of Thomas SPAIGHT). They had children:
1752 Robert
Joseph
Thomas
Edward Hoare
1754 Grace
Mary
Catherine
Jane
Eliza
For some reason, the children are numbered 1-4 (boys) and then 1-5 (girls). A couple of baptisms that I can add the images here show that Burke's has not put the children in birth order.
Catherine REEVES (? - 1836) married Henry MADDER (1754 - 1791) (son of Rev John MADDER and Dorothea GOUGH (1725 - 1777) ).
Their daughter Eliza MADDER (1787 - 1871) married James Richard PARKINSON.
Robert REEVES and Grace SPAIGHT marriage :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L94F-24D?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV9B-YM78&action=view
1752 Robert REEVES baptism:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-994F-24L?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV9B-TYZB&action=view
1754 Grace REEVES baptism:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L94F-24D?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV9B-YM78&action=view
Modified to add:
Some Ancestry trees say Grace REEVES (nee SPAIGHT) died in 1814, though I haven't been able to find any records of this so far. The probate/will that I found earlier for Grace SPAIGHT (died 1764) would probably be her mother - it mentions her daughter Grace married to Robert REEVES.
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Haven’t followed this thread in detail but seeing the Limerick connection perhaps some of these Madder deaths in a Limerick newspaper may be of interest
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/Obituaries_%20death%20notices_%20etc%20-%20%20M.pdf
Page 15.
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Thank you again. It is high time I started writing my report. We now have a lot of detail, and I need to work out which women are likely to have been around at the time the quilt was made. If I get stuck i will come back with more questions, but meanwhile, if any of you have any other ideas, i would love to hear them.
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It's been very interesting trying to piece the family together. :D
Would love to see the quilt if at all possible?
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Maddys52, yes, understandable! I don't know if they want it public yet. However, if you send me a personal message with an email address, i can send you some photos. I can also send the report, when it is written!!! thank you, Anne
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Thanks Anne, don't want you get into any trouble! Will send you a pm.
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I have emailed you, maddys52. Please let me know if you don't get it.
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Thank you very much to everyone who has helped me to research this. I have now sent my report to the Quilters Guild. They are happy for me to send a copy to anyone who is interested in the quilt. So, if you would like a copy of the report, please send me a personal message and an email address, and I will send you one.
Thanks again.