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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: heilanlassie on Thursday 21 March 24 18:34 GMT (UK)
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I have been trying to tie in a Philip Macrae (sometimes spelt McRae or McCree) into my Mackenzie family.
Philip was a sailor, and married in Plymouth in 1847. On the marriage record, Philip's father was stated to be Christopher McCree, a boatbuilder.
On 30th October 1866 his "lunatic" son, christened Philip George Alexander, but known as Alexander, was registered for Poor Relief in Lochbroom. He was stated to be 14 years old, but according to the birth record that I have, he would have been 16 years old, as he was born in 1850.
Alexander appears on the census returns of 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 living with an Alexandrina/Alexina/Lexy Mackenzie (whose mother was Mary Macrae, and her reputed father was a Kenneth Mackenzie) in Market Street, Ullapool.
On the 1911 census Alexander is living with my great-grandmother, Christina Mackenzie, in Pulteney Street, Ullapool.
Incidentally, although Alexandrina/Alexina/Lexy spent all her life in Market Street, Ullapool - when she died in 1906, she died in Pulteney Street, Ullapool, maybe not in my great-grandmother's house though, as the death was registered by a Thomas Dawson, Red Row, who states that he is a "near relative"
I have just received further information about Philip McCree it seems that on 1st August 1835, he requests that an allotment of 18/- per month should be paid to his sister, Kitty McCree, living in Ullapool.
On the registration application Alexander was stated to be the orphan son of Philip Macrae, native of Annat.
I think Alexander was probably Downs Syndrome, as his mother was in her 40s when he was born.
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What was the name of Philip's wife/Alexander's mother?
And where was Alexander born?
When and where did Philip and his wife die?
There are two deaths of Alexander Macraes in Lochbroom born in 1850 plus or minus 5 years. Have you looked at those?
What other information do the Lochbroom Parochial Board records contain about Alexander? https://www.highlifehighland.com/highland-archive-centre/
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Previous post answers some questions
SS
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=881330.0
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Thank you SS.
It would have been helpful if the new thread had been linked to the other one at the outset.
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What was the name of Philip's wife/Alexander's mother?
And where was Alexander born?
When and where did Philip and his wife die?
There are two deaths of Alexander Macraes in Lochbroom born in 1850 plus or minus 5 years. Have you looked at those?
What other information do the Lochbroom Parochial Board records contain about Alexander? https://www.highlifehighland.com/highland-archive-centre/
Philip's wife was born Mary Ann Williams, she firstly married William Howell on 23 August 1825. He died on 16 May 1847. She then married Philip McCree on 23 September 1847.
Alexander was born on 16 April 1850 in East Stonehouse (an area of Plymouth).
Alexander died on 17 December 1918 in Pulteney Street, Ullapool.
I have no idea when Philip and Mary Ann McCree died, and I have no idea how Alexander ended up in Ullapool.
On the 1861 census the family were living in 41 Church Street, Stepney, London.
The Archive Assistant from the Highland Archive Centre in Inverness has advised me that they do not hold the applications for Poor Relief, they only have the register.
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Thank you SS.
It would have been helpful if the new thread had been linked to the other one at the outset.
Sorry.
I always get things wrong, and end up causing trouble.
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You are not causing any 'trouble', heilanlassie ;D
From reading through, my first thoughts are that Alexander was likely sent to live with family in Ullapool you would think after the deaths of his parents in the 1860s (I know you have still to find their deaths at this time). Specially with the earlier mention of a sister to Philip, Kitty McCree, living in Ullapool in the 1830s.
Mary McCree, mother to Lexy. What do you know about her? When was she born? Did she die after 1855 to let you check her parentage?
Monica
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You are not causing any 'trouble', heilanlassie ;D
From reading through, my first thoughts are that Alexander was likely sent to live with family in Ullapool you would think after the deaths of his parents in the 1860s (I know you have still to find their deaths at this time). Specially with the earlier mention of a sister to Philip, Kitty McCree, living in Ullapool in the 1830s.
Mary McCree, mother to Lexy. What do you know about her? When was she born? Did she die after 1855 to let you check her parentage?
Monica
Thank you Monica.
I first find Mary Macrae (spelt this way) on the 1861 census, as head of the house in Market Street, Ullapool, stating that she is 80 years old, unmarried and a pauper.
Also in the household is Lexy Mackenzie, unmarried, daughter, aged 30, a domestic servant.
Also in the household are two visitors, Janet Mackay, unmarried, aged 30, pauper and Eppy Ross, widowed, aged 80, pauper.
On the 1871 census, Lexy Mackenzie is the head of the house in Market Street, Ullapool, unmarried, aged 40, domestic servant.
Mary Macrae, mother, single, aged 60, pauper.
Also in the house is Alexander Macrae, nephew, aged 16, scholar.
And Roy MacDonald, lodger, unmarried, aged 60, pauper.
Mary Macrae died on 05 January 1879, in Market Street, Ullapool. She was stated to be 91 years old, single, pauper.
The death was registered by her daughter, Alexandrina, who stated that Mary's parents were Farquhar Macrae, deceased, crofter and Ann Macrae, nee Munro.
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I was having a look around to try and follow up on Kitty/Catherine, sister to Philip and living in Ullapool.
There are four marriages showing in Lochbroom in the 1820s and one in 1854 (likely too late). The one that caught my eye is the 1826 one between a Murdoch Stuart and a Catherine McRea. If you have still a subs to Ancestry, there is this family tree for her www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77043979/person/48357988776/facts
The 1841 census:
Murdo Stewart 40 shoemaker
Catharine Stewart 35
Farguhar Stewart 10
John Stewart 8
Alexander Stewart 3
Address: Ullapool
The 1851 census, with a widowed Catherine, everyone showing as born in Lochbroom:
Cathrine Stewart 55 Head, widow of a shoemaker
Alex Stewart 13
John McDond 70 Visitor
William Mkenzie 30 Visitor tailor employing 2 men
Rodk Mkenzie 19 Visitor tailor appr
Address Market St, Ullapool
Catherine died at the age of 60 in Ullapool in 1855. Her parents are the same as Mary MaCrae, Farquhar McRea and Ann Munro.
So, I think it is a possibility that this is the Catherine/Kitty that Philip referred to as his sister in his papers in 1833. His father showed as Christopher when he married Mary Ann. I am wondering if this is an error?
With Alexander MaCree showing as nephew with Mary MaCree in the household in 1871 and then, with cousin with Lexy as head of household in 1881, showing as cousin....I think that is exactly what he was.
I think this is helpful in possibly establishing why Alexander McCree was living with Mary McCree and her daughter Lexy in Ullapool from at least the mid 1860s. There was some discussion on this on your original post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=678701.0
However, this doesn't really explain if there was any direct familial relationship between him and your g grandmother Christina Mackenzie with whom he showed as living with in 1911. Given his disabilities, I wonder if she was receiving assistance to have him boarding with her?
Monica
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I was having a look around to try and follow up on Kitty/Catherine, sister to Philip and living in Ullapool.
There are four marriages showing in Lochbroom in the 1820s and one in 1854 (likely too late). The one that caught my eye is the 1826 one between a Murdoch Stuart and a Catherine McRea. If you have still a subs to Ancestry, there is this family tree for her www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77043979/person/48357988776/facts
The 1841 census:
Murdo Stewart 40 shoemaker
Catharine Stewart 35
Farguhar Stewart 10
John Stewart 8
Alexander Stewart 3
Address: Ullapool
The 1851 census, with a widowed Catherine, everyone showing as born in Lochbroom:
Cathrine Stewart 55 Head, widow of a shoemaker
Alex Stewart 13
John McDond 70 Visitor
William Mkenzie 30 Visitor tailor employing 2 men
Rodk Mkenzie 19 Visitor tailor appr
Address Market St, Ullapool
Catherine died at the age of 60 in Ullapool in 1855. Her parents are the same as Mary MaCrae, Farquhar McRea and Ann Munro.
So, I think it is a possibility that this is the Catherine/Kitty that Philip referred to as his sister in his papers in 1833. His father showed as Christopher when he married Mary Ann. I am wondering if this is an error?
With Alexander MaCree showing as nephew with Mary MaCree in the household in 1871 and then, with cousin with Lexy as head of household in 1881, showing as cousin....I think that is exactly what he was.
I think this is helpful in possibly establishing why Alexander McCree was living with Mary McCree and her daughter Lexy in Ullapool from at least the mid 1860s. There was some discussion on this on your original post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=678701.0
However, this doesn't really explain if there was any direct familial relationship between him and your g grandmother Christina Mackenzie with whom he showed as living with in 1911. Given his disabilities, I wonder if she was receiving assistance to have him boarding with her?
Monica
That's all extremely interesting, and yes, I agree that this is probably the correct information.
I have had a look at the link to the tree you sent me, and have found a lot of information on there, but I am always very wary about copying from other people's trees, I prefer to wait until I can download certificates to prove everything.
I was also thinking about Philip's father being named as Christopher on the marriage certificate and (no disrespect meant here) - presumably Philip had a broad Ross-Shire accent, and as he married in Plymouth, Devon, I wouldn't be too surprised if the registrar couldn't understand what he was saying his father's name was, and misheard Farquhar, and wrote down Christopher. Possible?
I shall carry on researching and really, really hope that at some point I can tie these people to my Mackenzies.
As always Monica, thank you for your help.
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Agree on trees online and the need for care. I only take as fact those trees that have included original documents to view, the rest I just regard them as a guide to work through.
I did look at the death reg in 1855 for Catherine McRea or Stewart. This is the source and confirmation of her parents' names.
Something else may pop up to make any possible connection a little clearer.
Did you ever follow up on the reputed father of Lexy, Kenneth McKenzie, to determine his family line?
Monica
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Just a few side notes for Philip McCree from Ancestry:
1833 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/130630:61093 - Dreadnought Seamen's Hospital Admissions and Discharges, 1826-1930. This confirms Philip's birth place as Lochbroom
1833 - There is an Ancestry London parish marriages & banns entry in September 1833 which could be for him. These look to be banns for a marriage to an Ann Page, widow, at Saint Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney. Not clear whether marriage went ahead although there is the mention of a child in Philip's records, William, born 1841-2.
1862 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/10680477:60391 - London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1921. From summer of 1862, sick with fever and needing medical attendance. Just helps narrow down further possible range of death.
Monica
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Agree on trees online and the need for care. I only take as fact those trees that have included original documents to view, the rest I just regard them as a guide to work through.
I did look at the death reg in 1855 for Catherine McRea or Stewart. This is the source and confirmation of her parents' names.
Something else may pop up to make any possible connection a little clearer.
Did you ever follow up on the reputed father of Lexy, Kenneth McKenzie, to determine his family line?
Monica
No, I haven't followed up on the reputed father, Kenneth McKenzie.
To be honest, I wouldn't know where to start.............I sort of went into panic mode when I saw the name Kenneth, as my 2xgreat grandfather was called Kenneth McKenzie............
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Just a few side notes for Philip McCree from Ancestry:
1833 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/130630:61093 - Dreadnought Seamen's Hospital Admissions and Discharges, 1826-1930. This confirms Philip's birth place as Lochbroom
1833 - There is an Ancestry London parish marriages & banns entry in September 1833 which could be for him. These look to be banns for a marriage to an Ann Page, widow, at Saint Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney. Not clear whether marriage went ahead although there is the mention of a child in Philip's records, William, born 1841-2.
1862 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/10680477:60391 - London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1921. From summer of 1862, sick with fever and needing medical attendance. Just helps narrow down further possible range of death.
Monica
More wows.............
Fascinating to read about Philip being admitted to the Dreadnought Seaman's Hospital, although I might need some help to identify what the illness was.
I discovered a while ago his admission into the workhouse in 1862 with a fever. He was discharged from there on 16 July 1862, so he must have died sometime between then and 30 October 1866, which is the date that his son, Alexander, was registered for Poor Relief in Lochbroom.
Now to research the marriage in 1833 to Ann Page. Is there a link to that entry? In 1843, Philip named Mary Ann Howell as trustee for his son, William, aged 19 months, in Plymouth.
I think our Philip was a bit of a rascal....................
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Just a few side notes for Philip McCree from Ancestry:
1833 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/130630:61093 - Dreadnought Seamen's Hospital Admissions and Discharges, 1826-1930. This confirms Philip's birth place as Lochbroom
1833 - There is an Ancestry London parish marriages & banns entry in September 1833 which could be for him. These look to be banns for a marriage to an Ann Page, widow, at Saint Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney. Not clear whether marriage went ahead although there is the mention of a child in Philip's records, William, born 1841-2.
1862 - www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/10680477:60391 - London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1921. From summer of 1862, sick with fever and needing medical attendance. Just helps narrow down further possible range of death.
Monica
I have found the document showing the banns called for Philip McCree and Ann Page.
Where did you find the mention of the son William, born in 1841/42?
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Info only,
British Royal Navy Allotment Declarations 1795-1852
Philip McCree names a sister Kitty McCree living in Loch Broom, Ullapool, Rothshire.
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British Royal Navy Allotment Declarations 1795-1852
1843 Philip McCree names Mary Ann Howell as a trustee for his son William McCree aged 19 months, New Church, Plymouth. Mary address 56, George Street, Stonehouse,Devon.
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Philip records in 1848 that he married Mary Ann Howell 27th September 1847, Plymouth
SS
SS mentioned the source on the other thread.
Monica
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Re the 1833 marriage banns in Stepney, this is the link (shrunk as it was a very long one!) to Ancestry's database www.rootschat.com/links/01t2p/
Monica
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Fascinating to read about Philip being admitted to the Dreadnought Seaman's Hospital, although I might need some help to identify what the illness was.
I think Philip's ailment on record was Periostitis. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periostitis
Monica
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Fascinating to read about Philip being admitted to the Dreadnought Seaman's Hospital, although I might need some help to identify what the illness was.
I think Philip's ailment on record was Periostitis. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periostitis
Monica
Ouch - sounds really painful