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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: nicdigby on Thursday 21 March 24 22:30 GMT (UK)
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April 1915, Alexander ETHERIDGE b. 1848 Lepe, Hampshire, drowned on board the S.S Guernsey when the ship was shipwrecked just off the Cape la Hague, in France. He was a merchant seaman, regularly sailing the route being Southampton and the Channel Islands/France.
He was 68. I know about this record:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62598/images/i3121735-00074?pId=129936
I cannot find his death record on Anc, FindMyPast or FS. Nothing on Deaths index and no parish records. Nothing on Findagrave. Nothing on CWGC. Is the above record the 'official' notification, or would there be another source?
Can anyone track it down please?
NB: this is a different man to other Alexander Etheridges who I will list here:
1) The man who died 26 May 1915 in France/Flanders, soldier with London Regiment. Age 21. He's on CWGC and Find a Grave. It's not my man.
2) Another man of same name with Royal Garrison Artillery. Not the right man.
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I've checked on the French sites I can think of and can't find your Alexander (Alec).
Do you have any other details? For example parents' names and/or name of spouse, if any?
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I've checked on the French sites I can think of and can't find your Alexander (Alec).
Do you have any other details? For example parents' names and/or name of spouse, if any?
Thaks for checking the French side of things.
His parents (John and Sarah) are enumerated at the family home in Exbury, Hampshire in 1871 ...but without him.
He wasn't married til after 1871. (Ellen Sarah SHELLY)
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Thanks. Reason I was asking is that French death certificates usually give parents' names (with mother's maiden surname) and spouse's (with maiden surname) and that can help with a search and also help ensure that any "find" is probably the right one.
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Thanks. Reason I was asking is that French death certificates usually give parents' names (with mother's maiden surname) and spouse's (with maiden surname) and that can help with a search and also help ensure that any "find" is probably the right one.
Thanks for explaining.
MMN was ORMAN.
Other details in previous post...spouse surname SHELLY, sometimes spelt SHELLEY
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British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials
Alec Etheridge age 68
b 1847 Lepe, Hants
d 9 April 1915
Cape la Hague, Guernsey
FindMyPast have this record, without a subscription you can get the transcription for 50p or the image £1, may only be an index.
see overseas records
https://www.gov.uk/research-family-history
Don't know if this is the record you have from Ancestry.
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Yes, this is the same record I mentioned in my OP, but thank you anyway, your efforts are much appreciated!
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Will look again tomorrow. Will need to try going through records of each town/village in the area as nothing coming up on a more general search.
Do you know whether his body was actually found or just noted as lost at sea?
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Will look again tomorrow. Will need to try going through records of each town/village in the area as nothing coming up on a more general search.
Do you know whether his body was actually found or just noted as lost at sea?
Thank you.
His body was found washed up the next day.
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Deleted
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Have discovered why I can't find anything online:
Toutes les collections existantes pour la Manche jusqu’en 1892 ont été microfilmées et mises en ligne. Les registres qui leur font suite sont consultables uniquement sous format original en salle de lecture. Si vous ne trouvez pas l'acte que vous recherchez, c'est sans doute que le registre a été perdu avant son arrivée aux archives ou détruit lors des bombardements en 1944 . On trouvera dans l'inventaire de la sous-série 2 E, publié en 1943, le détail des registres paroissiaux disparus et provenant de la collection du greffe, qui étaient alors conservés aux Archives de la Manche.
All the existing collections for La Manche up to 1892 have been microfilmed and put online. The subsequent registers can only be consulted in their original format in the reading room. If you cannot find the record you are looking for, it is probably because the register was lost before it arrived at the archives or destroyed during the bombing in 1944. The inventory of sub-series 2 E, published in 1943, gives details of the lost parish registers from the registry's collection, which were then held by the Archives de la Manche.
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Thank you very much for looking into this and explaining what you’ve found out. Much appreciated
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Hello,
The shipwreck happened on the 9 th of april 1915. The sailors of the rescue station of Goury rescued the surviving passengers and sailors ( who were brought back to England on the steamer CHERBOURG).
Goury's registers for this period of time aren't digitized yet .
But you can try to have the death certificate if the mairie still has the communal registers .
Goury was part of Auderville which is now included in La Hague 's territory.
Mairie de La Hague : 8 rue des Tohagues 50440. La Hague
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I found no one called Etheridge or Inconnu ( unknown) in the decenal tables of Auderville between 1913 and 1922.
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Here' a link:
https://www.haguemarine.fr/la-plongee/les-epaves/le-ss-guernsey/
Drowned : Captain Charles Berrows , six crew members
Survived :12 crew members
No mention of anybody else.
Another link says that the bodies of the drowned men were never found (which means in France that there was no death certificate (acte de décès).
https://www.wikimanche.fr/Naufrage_du_Guernsey
https://www.wikimanche.fr/Baie_d%27%C3%89calgrain
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The first link is forbidden for me, for some reason, even if I use a VPN.
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Article about the shipwreck (Column 5, headed Arrondissement de Cherbourg)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k23535553/f3 (https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k23535553/f3)
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A scan of the article into Google translate results in a bit of a scramble, so here's a transcription ) I'll get back to you with a translation if you like):
Arrondissement de CHERBOURG
Le naufrage du vapeur « Guernesey » . -Avant son rapatriement pour Southampton, nous avons pu obtenir auprès de M. Ellison Colin, chef officier rescapé du vapeur « Guernesey » les renseignements suivants relatant les circonstances du naufrage.
Le 9 avril, vers 10 heures, déclare M. Ellison, j’étais couché dans ma cabine lorsqu’un un choc violent me renversa de mon lit. Immédiatement je montai sur le pont et interpellant le capitaine qui veillait : Qu’y a-t-il donc ? Par une autre interrogation le capitaine me répondit : Où sommes-nous ? Nous sommes sur le cap de la Hague lui répondis-je !
Le bateau qui au moment du choc violent que j’avais ressenti venait de toucher sur un rocher commença 15 minutes après à dériver. Voyant cela les hommes de l’équipage et moi mîmes une embarcation à la mer ; il ne fallait pas songer à en mettre d’autres car le navire était très gîté su babord. Quelques hommes de l’équipage, ne pouvant à cause de l’obscurité me rendre compte du nombre, montèrent dans cette embarcation et moi-même, après avoir recommandé aux hommes de se munir de ceintures de sauvetage. A ce moment le « Guernesey » coulait sous mes pieds.
Dans cette embarcation qui allait plutôt à la dérive, nous échouâmes dans une baie de la côte, c’est alors que je comptai que nous étions 12 sur 19 hommes d’équipage. Le capitaine Berrow, un officier et cinq hommes avaient disparu.
Le « Guernesey » avait un chargement de primeurs à destination de Southampton ; nous venions de Guernesey que nous avions quitté à 7 heures du soir et le navire s’est perdu exactement à 10 heures 11 minutes.
Dans ce naufrage, nous dit M. Ellison, sept hommes ont péri, ce sont :
Le capitaine Berrow, Charles ; le deuxième officier Mundey, Charles ; le cuisinier William Veaver ; les chauffeurs Lievis, John et Bisson, John ; le matelot Etheridge, Alexandre et le chauffeur Max, Allen. Ces deux derniers âgés respectivement de 65 et 63 ans, étaient originaires de Southampton. Leur cadavres furent rejetés par la mer dans la journée de samedi, l’un atterrit au port de Goury et le second au lieu-dit Giletain, sur le littoral de St-Germain-des-Vaux.
Le garde maritime à Auderville, M. Kersual, a déclaré à l’Autorité maritime qu’il fut réveillé samedi, vers 1 heure du matin, par les rescapés du « Guernesey » qui venait de sombrer sur les rochers de la Foraine. Aussitôt il s’empressa de les restaurer, de les réchauffer en leur procurant des vêtements secs et fit le nécessaire pour leur rapatriement à Cherbourg, ce qui eu lieu par les soins de M. Cottel, agent maritime, représentant de la Compagnie South-Western-Railways à laquelle appartenait le « Guernesey ».
De son côté, M. Guilloux, syndic des Gens de mer à Omonville, donna l’ordre au canot de sauvetage de sortir, mais au bout de plusieurs heures d’exploration il revint au port sans avoir trouver trace du vapeur sombré, comme il a été dit, par environ 30 mètres de fond.
La violence des courants qui règnent en cet endroit laisse peu d’espoir de retrouver trace de l’épave du vapeur. C’est dans ces parages, si l’on s’en souvient, que périt corps et biens, il y aura 8 juin deux ans, le sous-marin « Vendémiaire » .
Journal de la Manche et de la Basse-Normandie
17 avril 1915
Page 3
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Thanks very much for all your help on this. The French article confirms the English newspapers that his body was found washed up the next day. Poor guy, shipwrecked twice in his life, same stretch of water, same sort of circumstances!
I have enough info on him now, thanks ever so much for all your help everyone with my question. :)
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Quick translation of the newspaper article:
District of CHERBOURG
The shipwreck of the steamer ‘Guernsey’. - Before his repatriation to Southampton, we were able to obtain from Mr. Ellison Colin, chief officer and survivor of the steamer ‘Guernsey’, the following information relating to the circumstances of the shipwreck.
On April 9th, around 10 o’clock, Mr. Ellison declared, 'I was lying in my cabin when a violent shock threw me from my bed. Immediately, I went up on deck and, addressing the captain who was on watch, asked: ‘What’s happening?’ The captain responded with another question: ‘Where are we?’ To which I replied, ‘We are off Cape La Hague!’
The ship, at the moment of the violent shock that I had felt, had just struck a rock and began to drift 15 minutes later. Seeing this, the crewmen and I put a boat into the sea; it was not possible to think of launching others because the ship was listing heavily to port. Some of the crew, unable to make out their number due to the darkness, climbed into this boat, and I myself, after having recommended the men to equip themselves with life belts. At that moment, the ‘Guernsey’ was sinking beneath my feet.
In this boat, which was rather adrift, we ended up in a bay on the coast, and that’s when I counted that we were 12 out of 19 crew members. Captain Berrow, an officer, and five men had disappeared.
The ‘Guernsey’ had a cargo of early fruit and vegetables bound for Southampton; we had left Guernsey at 7 o’clock in the evening, and the ship was lost exactly at 10:11 p.m.
In this shipwreck, Mr. Ellison tells us, seven men perished, they are:
Captain Berrow, Charles; the second officer Mundey, Charles; the cook William Veaver; the stokers Lievis, John and Bisson, John; the sailor Etheridge, Alexander; and the stoker Max, Allen. The latter two, aged respectively 65 and 63 years old, were natives of Southampton. Their bodies were cast up by the sea on Saturday; one landed at the port of Goury and the other at the place known as Giletain, on the coast of St-Germain-des-Vaux.
The coastguard at Auderville, Mr. Kersual, declared to the Maritime Authority that he was awakened on Saturday, around 1 o’clock in the morning, by the survivors of the ‘Guernsey’ which had just sunk on the rocks of La Foraine. He immediately set about restoring them, warming them by providing dry clothes, and made the necessary arrangements for their repatriation to Cherbourg, which took place through the efforts of Mr. Cottel, maritime agent, representative of the South-Western-Railways Company to which the ‘Guernsey’ belonged.
On his part, Mr. Guilloux, Omonville Seamen’s Union, ordered the lifeboat to set out, but after several hours of exploration, it returned to port without having found any trace of the sunken steamer, which, as it was said, sank about 30 metres deep.
The violence of the currents that prevail in that place leaves little hope of finding traces of the wreck of the steamer. It is in these waters, if one remembers, that the submarine ‘Vendémiaire’ perished with all hands, two years ago on June 8th.
Journal de la Manche et de la Basse-Normandie
17 April 1915
Page 3
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Thanks very much, you’ve been really helpful
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Manukarik : great find!
It clearly says that Etheridge ´s body was found near Goury and the other one near St Germain des Vaux , but I found no trace of Etheridge in the tables of Goury.
Have you tried to find the haguemarine site ( it's a diving club , it shows photographs of the SS Guernsey under water )?
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I have enough info on him now, so need to research further. Thanks very much for all your help and input. :)
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Have you tried to find the haguemarine site ( it's a diving club , it shows photographs of the SS Guernsey under water )?
joger are you in France? I can't access the diving club site even if I use a French VPN. I've tried different browsers.
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Yes I am in France.
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Maybe that's why you can access the website and I can't in UK? ???
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Maybe but it's odd, it's only a diving club.
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here
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here
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here
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here
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Works for me! www.haguemarine.fr
Maybe it's your browser?
But then, technically I'm not in UK either ;)
(I'm in Isle of Man)
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I can't send the photographs , the rights are reserved.
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Here's George Marc Allen's death St Germain des Vaux . only the decennal tables, the registers aren't on line yet.
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My apologies .
here's Alexander Etheridge in the death decenal tables in Auderville.
You can ask the mairie for his certificate ( not on line yet)
First name and surname are inverted, he is to be searched with the surname Alexandre.
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Brilliant detective work, joger!
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Works for me! www.haguemarine.fr
Maybe it's your browser?
But then, technically I'm not in UK either ;)
(I'm in Isle of Man)
Briefly worked and now I’m getting Forbidden - ‘Sorry, your request cannot be accepted.’ Have tried 4 different browsers!
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My apologies .
here's Alexander Etheridge in the death decenal tables in Auderville.
You can ask the mairie for his certificate ( not on line yet)
First name and surname are inverted, he is to be searched with the surname Alexandre.
Fabulous, thank you. Can you tell me who created these tables originally, and what the name of the archives are? Also do you have a link to the online version of the photo of his death record please?
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This is where joger found Alexander in the tables décennales (10-year tables) for Auderville.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t2o/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t2o/)
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The decennal tables for births , marriages and death are compulsory since the Revolution .
Alexander Etheridge's death is in the decennal tables of Auderville (1913-1922) department La Manche, 9 april 1915 ( on line) and his death certificate ( acte de décès) is in the deaths register of Auderville 9 april 1915 ( not on line yet) . So you will have to ask for a copy of the acte de décès (Auderville's mairie ), and ask for the death of Etheridge ALEXANDRE ( he is registered as if his surname was Alexandre).
Madame , monsieur ,
Pouvez-vous me faire parvenir la copie de l'acte de décès survenu le 9 avril 1915 , d'ALEXANDRE Etheridge ? Il est en effet enregistré ainsi dans les tables décennales , bien que son identité ait
été Alexandre ETHERIDGE , nom et prénom ont été inversés à l'époque.
En vous remerciant , je vous prie d'agréer madame, monsieur , mes sincères salutations.
Give your address and email, some mairies send the certificates by mail but some don't.
Mairie d'Auderville
68 rue de l'église
50440 LA HAGUE
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The decennal tables for births , marriages and death are compulsory since the Revolution .
Alexander Etheridge's death is in the decennal tables of Auderville (1913-1922) department La Manche, 9 april 1915 ( on line) and his death certificate ( acte de décès) is in the deaths register of Auderville 9 april 1915 ( not on line yet) . So you will have to ask for a copy of the acte de décès (Auderville's mairie ), and ask for the death of Etheridge ALEXANDRE ( he is registered as if his surname was Alexandre).
Madame , monsieur ,
Pouvez-vous me faire parvenir la copie de l'acte de décès survenu le 9 avril 1915 , d'ALEXANDRE Etheridge ? Il est en effet enregistré ainsi dans les tables décennales , bien que son identité ait
été Alexandre ETHERIDGE , nom et prénom ont été inversés à l'époque.
En vous remerciant , je vous prie d'agréer madame, monsieur , mes sincères salutations.
Give your address and email, some mairies send the certificates by mail but some don't.
Mairie d'Auderville
68 rue de l'église
50440 LA HAGUE
Many thanks
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This is where joger found Alexander in the tables décennales (10-year tables) for Auderville.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t2o/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t2o/)
Thank you :)