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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Vixen999 on Wednesday 10 April 24 22:08 BST (UK)
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Hi All
For several years now I had been stuck with my grandads, gran, first found in a 1871 census at Gem Street industrial school aged 3, her surname was spelt Mayes. However, all her records show she comes from Birmingham but we could not find any sign of a Matilda Mayes born in Birmingham around 1867. Interestingly on one of the census's, I believe the 1871 census there is also another Mayes child at the school.
Its been long suspected that Matilda was actually born Masey and today I received the digital image for the birth registration that we suspect is Matilda,
Matilda Mayes was the mother of May Elizabeth Johns born either 1896 or 1898 as the census and birth record don't quite tally. Matilda Mayes was born 1867. Matilda would be my great, great grandmother but when she was just 3yrs old, she ended up in gem Street industrial school for unruly children in birmingham. She is on the 1871 census at gem Street age 3 but was also at Walton Rd Major Lesters Girls Home in Lancashire.
Matilda is thought to come from Birmingham and lived with George Johns in Birmingham where she had a large family of 13 children, of which 5 died. I've never found a marriage record for them. Matilda lived at 23 wilton st lozells birmingham in 1925, living with 2 of her children ernest and william...George had died at this point.
I would like help to now work out who her parents are, what happened to them, did Matilda have any siblings so I can progress this side of the family tree. Any help you can offer, would be so appreciated.
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A possibility - 1871 Census Birmingham, St Luke
There is a Thomas Macey age 26 , grocer, born Wiltshire.
He is with wife Emily who he married in 1870
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A possibility - 1871 Census Birmingham, St Luke
There is a Thomas Macey age 26 , grocer, born Wiltshire.
He is with wife Emily who he married in 1870
Thanks. Not sure on this as I dont know if Thomas or Sabina married. If they were, then this Thomas may not be the person whose Matilda's dad but equally it could be.
I saw this however, tho I think badly transcribed. In the 1871 census there is also a eliza mayes. Theres a 5 yrs difference approx in age. However when I went on the gro, I could not locate an Eliza masey mmn sneath. Also the below entry says snell instead of sneath
Name Sabinæ Snell Masy
Gender Female
Spouse
Thomæ Masy
Child
Eliza Masy
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George was married to Mary Ann Clabbey/Clabey 1881 reg. Birmingham.
they had
George Patrick 1883 mmn Clabbey
Thomas 1885 died 1885 mmn Clabbey
Catherine 1886 died 1886 mmn Clabby
Possible death for Mary Ann Johns age 24 1887 reg. Birmingham.
1891 census Bordesley, Aston Warwickshire
George John 29 born Birmingham
Matilda 26 ditto
George 7 ditto
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Thomas Mayes married Sabina/Sabrina Snell 28 May 1860 reg. Birmingham
His father Robert
Her father James
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George was married to Mary Ann Clabbey/Clabey 1881 reg. Birmingham.
they had
George Patrick 1883 mmn Clabbey
Thomas 1885 died 1885 mmn Clabbey
Catherine 1886 died 1886 mmn Clabby
Possible death for Mary Ann Johns age 24 1887 reg. Birmingham.
Yes I believe George was married to Mary Ann. Matilda would have been 13 in 1881 and was at the Major Lester childrens home. So I think they got together after then. I really want to try and work out who Matilda's parents are and any siblings as this has had me stuck for several years. George and Matilda in 1901
Name George Johns
Age 39
Estimated Birth Year abt 1862
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Spouse Matilda Johns
Birth Place Birmingham
Civil parish Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish St Luke
County/Island Warwickshire
Country England
Registration district Birmingham
Sub-registration district St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel 02
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 2831
Folio 36
Page number 9
Household schedule number 48
Household members
Name Age
George Johns 39
Matilda Johns 35
George Johns 17
Edith Johns 9
Willie J Johns 5
May Johns 3
Ernest Johns 4/12
1891 census Bordesley, Aston Warwickshire
George John 29 born Birmingham
Matilda 26 ditto
George 7 ditto
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Thomas Mayes married Sabina/Sabrina Snell 28 May 1860 reg. Birmingham
His father Robert
Her father James
Oh thats interesting. So is it possible that the birth certificate could be wrong? As I read it as Sneath and on the gro it has sneath. Tho cant find an Eliza Masey/Mayes mmn sneath or is it more likely it may be transcribed incorrectly on the ancestry site?? Sabina is an unusual name I think
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Thomas Mayes married Sabina/Sabrina Snell 28 May 1860 reg. Birmingham
His father Robert
Her father James
Is there anyway of cross checking the address given on the birth cert with the 1861 and 1871 census for sabina
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Also the mayes surname appears with this
Sebina Snell
Gender Female
Marriage Date 28 May 1860
Marriage Place Saint Martin,Birmingham,Warwick,England
Spouse
Thomas Mayes
On the wedding record, it says Thomas Mayes was a fish monger. Sabina on the birth cert says Fish Curer....is this coincidence. Also is it mayes or masey? Sabina is also down as a minor?
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There is a transcription for the bap of Thomas Johns on ancestry. it doesn't give an address.
Born 11 March 1885, bap 5 April 1885
Father Thomas?? Johns (s/b George)
Mother Maria Anna Clabby Johns
Image on FindMyPast it was at the Catholic Church, still no address
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Catherine was bap there as well
Catherina Johns born 24 June 1886, bap 18 July 1886
Father Georgie
Mother Mariae Annae Johns nee Clabby
God parents Anna Fox and Jacobus Ratican/Patican
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GRO Index
Matilda says she had 13 children so far I can find 12 all with mother's maiden name as MAYES
Edith Diana 1891 (Mays) reg. Birmingham
Matilda 1893 reg. Aston died 1893 reg. Birmingham*
Clara 1894 died 1895*
William Thomas 1895
Florence Annie 1897 died 1897*
May Elizabeth 1898
Horace 1899 died 1899*
Ernest 1900
Frederick Valentine 1902
Lily 1904 died 1905*
Albert 1906
Violet 1908
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GRO Index
Matilda says she had 13 children so far I can find 12 all with mother's maiden name as MAYES
Edith Diana 1891 (Mays) reg. Birmingham
Matilda 1893 reg. Aston died 1893 reg. Birmingham
Clara 1894 died 1895
William Thomas 1895
Florence Annie 1897 died 1897
May Elizabeth 1898
Horace 1899 died 1899
Ernest 1900
Frederick Valentine 1902
Lily 1904
Albert 1906
Violet 1908
I have
George Johns
1884–
Edith Diana Johns
1891–1957
Matilda Johns
1893–1893
William Thomas Johns
1896–1948
May Elizabeth Johns
1898–1985 - Ive marriage certificate for May and my great grandfather John William Hadley
Horace Johns
1899–1899
Ernest Johns
1900–1952
Frederick Valentine Johns
1902–1975
Albert Johns
1906–1961
Violet Johns
1908–1939
Then you have 3 who died young
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Try the GRO Index you have to sign in but no funds required unless you order a certificate.
It gives the mother's maiden name.
George is NOT Matilda's son he is Mary Ann nee Clabbey and George Johns son.
See my post at 23.12. Reply # 3
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I found an image of the marriage of George Johns to Mary Ann Clabbey her father was Patrick
His father was Thomas (deceased)
George was living on Fayly ?Street
Mary Ann was living on Aston Street.
Hence first son George Patrick Johns 1883.
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George's first wife Mary Ann died 1887 age 24 so he and Matilda got together sometime after 1887.
He had a 4 year old son to care for. (George Patrick 1883)
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George's first wife Mary Ann died 1887 age 24 so he and Matilda got together sometime after 1887.
He had a 4 year old son to care for. (George Patrick 1883)
Thanks. If you or anyone can help in trying to work out the parents, siblings of thomas and sabina that would be useful as I wish to identify them as I have matilda's children with George etc tho any help is useful. What I really want to do is work out, which records are wrong, was Sabina a sneath or snell, though from what you found earlier its quite possible she was snell. Im going to try and see if there are any newspaper articles. But yes any help at all will be so appreciated as its taken so long to get this far. If I can work out if Thomas is masey or mayes that will help, though Im starting to think perhaps on the birth certificate, his name has been misspelt too?? Wondering what you all think. Thanks for the help
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A possibility - 1871 Census Birmingham, St Luke
There is a Thomas Macey age 26 , grocer, born Wiltshire.
He is with wife Emily who he married in 1870
Thanks. Not sure on this as I dont know if Thomas or Sabina married. If they were, then this Thomas may not be the person whose Matilda's dad but equally it could be.
Update...I found this on the GRO and wondering if this is again a transcription error
MAISEY, ELIZA SNELL
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 128
Eliza was christened in July. Could this be the same Eliza as above?
I saw this however, tho I think badly transcribed. In the 1871 census there is also a eliza mayes. Theres a 5 yrs difference approx in age. However when I went on the gro, I could not locate an Eliza masey mmn sneath. Also the below entry says snell instead of sneath
Name Sabinæ Snell Masy
Gender Female
Spouse
Thomæ Masy
Child
Eliza Masy
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Census: 1861
County: Warwickshire (WAR)
District: St Paul
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Piece: 2151
Enumeration District: 6
Folio: 110
Page: 23
Schedule: 121
House Number: 3
House or Street Name: Hse 41 Crt Livery St
MEZSEY Thomas Head 23 Fish Monger born Norfolk Yarmouth
MEZSEY Louisa Wife 20 born Warwickshire Birmingham
(On Ancestry it is transcribed as MEZEY)
- Note the address is Livery Street – same as on marriage certificate.
- Thomas is a fishmonger – agrees with marriage information, and info on child’s birth.
- Ages would agree with Louisa / Sebrina being under age when she married in 1860.
Thomas MASSEY baptism 3 Jul 1837 Great Yarmouth
Parents Robert and Margaret (shoemaker)
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/64ba8847f493fdfaa756ea0f/thomas-maisey-baptism-norfolk-great-yarmouth-1837-07-03?locale=en
1851 census Thomas MAISEY
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDJ-ZWS
Father Robert is a shoemaker – this agrees with information on Thomas' marriage record.
1841 census for Maisey Family
This transcription is missing some children (page turns)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDJ-Z71
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Robert MAISEY (bachelor) married 7 Jan 1821 in Great Yarmouth
to Margaret PRESTON (Spinster)
Children of Robert and Margaret (Shoemaker) baptised in Great Yarmouth (that I could see)
(spelling of surname is very variable)
• Elizabeth Preston MAISEY 20 Feb 1821
• James MAYES 26 Jun 1822
• Sophia Elizabeth MAYSE 5 Nov 1828 (abode – Gun Row, Chapel St, Yarmouth)
• Edward Preston MAISEY 2 Oct 1833
• John MASSEY 1835?
• Thomas MAISEY 3 July 1837
• Elizabeth Sophia Preston MAISEY birth registered 1840 Great Yarmouth
Some children's baptisms I didn't find.
Missing William 1826?, John 1835?
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NFHS transcriptions
Elizabeth Sophia Hester Maisey bap 18 December 1839 parents Robert and Margaret.
Father - Shoemaker
Her birth date was 10 December 1839
She was buried 11 June 1845 age 5 at St Nicholas Church Great Yarmouth.
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NFHS transcriptions Burials Great Yarmouth
Children
Elizabeth 1821 was buried 4 March 1821 infant - Workhouse
Sophia was buried 7 September 1832 age 4 - Workhouse
Edward was buried 16 December 1835 age 2 - Workhouse
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Bishop's Transcripts.
John (Esther?) Maisey son of Robert and Margaret bap Great Yarmouth 17 May 1835
Father Shoemaker
Should Esther be Preston?
Cannot find William, however 1861 census states born Ipswich Suffolk
He married Mary Ann Mills 24 January 1847 at Gt Yarmouth - father Robert - Shoemaker
ADDED 1841 census all born in County of Norfolk except William who has No by
his name.
AMENDED Robert has born Ireland, not Norfolk, 1851 says born Leath.
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AMENDED Robert has born Ireland, not Norfolk, 1851 says born Leath.
I think Robert was born in Leith (Edinburgh) Scotland. See 1851 census.
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Thomas Maisey’s brother, James Maisey, born 1822 Great Yarmouth, was also living in Birmingham and working as a fish monger.
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Births registered for children on Thomas and Louisa? / Sebrina?
MAISEY, ELIZA Mother - SNELL
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 128
MAZEY, ROBERT Mother - SNELL
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 162
(DEATH --- MAZEY, ROBERT age - 0
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 110)
MASEY, MATILDA Mother - SNEATH
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 131
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Neale1961
so the I in 1841 is really an S the ink is faded.
Isn't there a Leath in County Kerry Ireland.
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Robert Mazey was buried 10 March 1864 age 63 Great Yarmouth -Workhouse
Margaret Maise death recorded 1863 age 70 Great Yarmouth
Son James was in the workhouse 1881. If the OP can get the information from the interviews to establish residency it could answer questions
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I read ....
1841 census has "S" (not very clear)
1851 census says Scotland, Leith
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Age is out but think this is Thomas 1881. Don't think there is a marriage as she dies as Morton. Additional Dau in 1891 called Margaret/Maggie. Thomas age in 1891 b 1832
1881
Birmingham
Piece 2986, Folio 89, Page number 23
Thomas Mayes 36 Head, Herring Curer (Fishmo) Yarmouth, Norfolk,
Eliza Mayes 36 Wife
William H. Morton 18 Step Son
George Morton 16 Step Son
Albert Morton 13 Step Son
Helen Morton 11 Step Daughter
Robert Mayes 6 Son
Ada M. Mayes 4 Daughter
Lucy Mayes 2 Daughter
MAYES, ROBERT MORTON mmn MORTON
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 86
Cas
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That looks good Cas.
I wonder what happened between the birth of daughter Matilda in 1867, and the son Robert (to second wife) in 1875.
I have made no progress in finding Selina / Louisa Maisey / Snell at any point.
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Eliza Moreton looks to be unmarried in the 1871 census, but living 2 doors away were members of the Mays family from Yarmouth. (William age 17, James Massey's son, and James' widow, Eliza)
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Think there may have been another son John, the name Snell does not seem to be that common in area.
MAY, JOHN mmn SNELL
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 109
Death - MAY'S, JOHN 0
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 69
Maybe some of the other children birth/death certs may help trace or give more info?
Cas
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Census: 1861
County: Warwickshire (WAR)
District: St Paul
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Piece: 2151
Enumeration District: 6
Folio: 110
Page: 23
Schedule: 121
House Number: 3
House or Street Name: Hse 41 Crt Livery St
MEZSEY Thomas Head 23 Fish Monger born Norfolk Yarmouth
MEZSEY Louisa Wife 20 born Warwickshire Birmingham
(On Ancestry it is transcribed as MEZEY)
- Note the address is Livery Street – same as on marriage certificate.
- Thomas is a fishmonger – agrees with marriage information, and info on child’s birth.
- Ages would agree with Louisa / Sebrina being under age when she married in 1860.
Thomas MASSEY baptism 3 Jul 1837 Great Yarmouth
Parents Robert and Margaret (shoemaker)
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/64ba8847f493fdfaa756ea0f/thomas-maisey-baptism-norfolk-great-yarmouth-1837-07-03?locale=en
1851 census Thomas MAISEY
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDJ-ZWS
Father Robert is a shoemaker – this agrees with information on Thomas' marriage record.
1841 census for Maisey Family
This transcription is missing some children (page turns)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDJ-Z71
Thank you for this. So if this is this Mayes who married Sabina, he’s already married to Louisa?
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Info for the Gem Street industrial School is not available at the NA. Contact details for minutes, admission registers etc on link. I also think there is a possibility that Eliza age 8 given in 1871 is there.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13774245
May get info on parentage
Cas
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Births registered for children on Thomas and Louisa? / Sebrina?
MAISEY, ELIZA Mother - SNELL
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 128
MAZEY, ROBERT Mother - SNELL
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 162
(DEATH --- MAZEY, ROBERT age - 0
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 110)
MASEY, MATILDA Mother - SNEATH
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 131
This is great thank you. So do you think on the birth certificate sneath is a transcription error and should have been snell? And regarding the spelling of Thomas Mayes? Masey, Mazey or Maizey?
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Vixen999
Please just use the reply button. Quoting large sections of text which have previously been posted and read, makes the whole thread confusing and difficult to follow.
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Neale1961
so the I in 1841 is really an S the ink is faded.
Isn't there a Leath in County Kerry Ireland.
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Robert Mazey was buried 10 March 1864 age 63 Great Yarmouth -Workhouse
Margaret Maise death recorded 1863 age 70 Great Yarmouth
Son James was in the workhouse 1881. If the OP can get the information from the interviews to establish residency it could answer questions
OP?? Sorry if being thick
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AMENDED Robert has born Ireland, not Norfolk, 1851 says born Leath.
I think Robert was born in Leith (Edinburgh) Scotland. See 1851 census.
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Thomas Maisey’s brother, James Maisey, born 1822 Great Yarmouth, was also living in Birmingham and working as a fish monger.
Do you have a census link for James? Thanks
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OP means you
The person who made the (o)riginal (p)ost
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ah okay thanks.
Yes @Neale1961 will hit reply button. Apologies
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Ive order a digital birth record for Eliza Maisey born 1861 to see if we have the same mother - Sabina as matilda.
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Has there been any sightings of Sabina's origins eg where she was born, parents etc?
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Do you know that you don’t have to order the birth certificates.
They are available for immediate download at the cost of 2.50
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link for James Maisey 1861 census in Birmingham
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5905ec68e9379091b1a2ba89/show_print_version?locale=en
His wife’s name is Eliza, (nee Basingthwaite), but has been mis-transcribed here.
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Thanks for the link Neale1961. I did stumble on a Sabina Snell Norfolk born around 1854. I haven’t looked this up yet as only back from work. I think if gro confirms 1854 she would be too young to be Matilda’s mum. She was registered Norfolk the same as the Thomas Mayes stumbled across yesterday
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Okay I now have Eliza Mayes birth record. As you can see it has Thomas Maisey and Sabina Maisey though I am struggling to read the addresses if anyone can interpret.
So on Matilda's birth record, Thomas's surname spelt Masey. On this one and I am pretty certain they are the same people, Masey becomes Maisey. This doesn't really help in terms of what surname should it be??
I am now even more convinced the Eliza Mayes in the 1871 census is Matilda's sister. Sabina is an uncommon name so this surely has to be her??
Also note on Eliza's birth record Snell is used, not Sneath. Really need to try and work out Sabina's origins if anyone can help. And just to say thank you to everyone so far in trying to help work this family out.
I did look on the GRO and couldnt see a mmn for Sabina Snell, born 1854 in Norfolk. Given Eliza was born 1861 and matilda 1867 this has to rule out the Sabina from Norfolk
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Robert Mazey also has the same parents, different address, I cant make out what comes after 17 court?
Again surname spelt differently so is it mayes, maisey, masey etc
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79 Slaney Street,
https://www.birminghamforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6932.0
Cas
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Robert died 9mths old with Bronchitis. Different address - hospital street??? It mentions Eliza Mazey present at the death. is this Robert's sister?
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I wouldn’t worry about the spelling of Maisey. There was not uniform spelling until very modern times. Names were written as they sounded when spoken, so you will get all sorts of variations - Massey, Mays, Mezey, etc. When Robert Maisey married in 1821, he signed his name with that spelling.
From the information you have so far, Sabina was born 1841 in Birmingham, and her father was James, a bricklayer. The birth you have found in 1854 Norfolk is not her.
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Neale, what makes you think Sabina was born 1841 in birmingham? have I missed something? And yeah I have learnt as you say about the name variations but its going to make tracking this family quite hard I think. I thought once I had matilda's birth record things would prove to be more plain sailing but its not. I dont know who I am looking for name wise eg eliza her sister, do I look for Mayes. Maisey etc
Any help tracking Sabina's family would be great. I think everyone here did a good job of locating Thomas's.
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I found this entry. It has the name Louisa and Matilda....I know Louisa was mentioned on a census someone posted up about. May not be related tho
SNELL, LOUISA MATILDA HONGSTON
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in NEWTON ABBOT Volume 10 Page 164
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Neale, what makes you think Sabina was born 1841 in birmingham?
Information from the 1861 census - previously posted.
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Name James Mayes
Baptism Age 0
Birth Date Abt 1822
Baptism Date 26 Jun 1822
Baptism Place Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Father
Robert Mayes
Mother
Margt. Mayes
I found the above, Mayes and Maisey being used interchangably.
I also found marriage bans in which a James Mays is listed as a herring curer. Dont know yet if James had a daughter Eliza but found this
James Mays
Gender Male
Parish as it Appears Birmingham, St Jude
Child
Elizabeth Mays
Still no joy on sabina yet.
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Neale1861 The census with James on, it says Oliver his wife? But as you said he married an Eliza? Interesting on that census he has Eliza and Matilda as names for his children
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Cas, just got John May/s birth cert. Again Thomas and Sabina are listed as his parents. They are using the spelling of May. They are living Back 52 Old Cross Street, the same street they were living when Matilda was born.
Theres a slightly different address on the death cert. Cant make out the first bit of the address. Apparently John died of an accidental burn of - congestion of small intestines?? There was an inquest. No sure what 7 days PM means - post mortem? Is there any way to get a copy of the inquest?
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If nobody else comes up with info
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/coroners-inquests/
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50164/family_history_research/1560/coroner_inquests/3
If you live near Birmingham it would be worth a visit to view records on Gem Street industrial School see reply # 31
Cas
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Thanks Cas. I live hundreds of miles from Birmingham I had a lady who had offered to go to the archives to try and retrieve Matilda's records from when she was in Gem St, Industrial school but sadly hasnt been able to do this to date. Its unlikely that I will be able to get to visit in person in the near future.
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(http://)
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Thank you so much for the newspaper article on what happened to John, :) :)
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If anyone can do a check for me as my mind is boggling....are there two Robert Mayes/Maisey living in Norfolk born around 1801 or is it the records have been amended. One Robert married Margaret Preston, but on someone elses tree they have a margaret ludman. I have found that Robert and Margaret Maisey also come up as Mayes?
I've looked a few times and it maybe that there is a Robert Mayes who also had a son Thomas...one Robert seems to be 1801 roughly and the other around 1803.
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See reply #18 Neale has given you the family. Added: on marriage his father Robert - shoemaker
Also there is this possible death.
Deaths Jun Q 1892
Mays Thomas age 55 Birmingham 6d 148
See reply #26 with his other family, both Robert & Margaret name him as father on marriage. Robert married in 1897, Thomas was a herring curer - deceased, so death is between 1891 - 1897
Cas
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If anyone can do a check for me as my mind is boggling....are there two Robert Mayes/Maisey living in Norfolk born around 1801 or is it the records have been amended. One Robert married Margaret Preston, but on someone elses tree they have a margaret ludman. I have found that Robert and Margaret Maisey also come up as Mayes?
I've looked a few times and it maybe that there is a Robert Mayes who also had a son Thomas...one Robert seems to be 1801 roughly and the other around 1803.
Hi Vixen999, It can be dangerous to copy information from someone's public tree - many times there are errors.
There is only one Robert Maisey (shoemaker) in Norfolk. As explained previously, you will find many ways of spelling that surname (at least 6 that I have seen). Just be prepared for that.
In the same way, you need to be flexible with ages. Seeing such differences like born 1801 - 1803, are quite normal.
Perhaps you could go back and re-read this thread. There was a lot of very detailed information posted across numerous replies, and you may have missed some. It is a good idea to print out the thread, and highlight the information that is relevant.
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Cas, the death record for Thomas Mayes was correct. He’s registered as Mays but I got the death certificate and profession was fish dealer and journeyman which fitted with the records to date. He died at western street, workhouse infirmary.
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Thanks Neale1961. There is a lot of info.
I have found potential parents for Robert Maisey. There were 3 other Maisey children born in Midlothian, Isabella, Rachel and James to parents James Maisie and Elizabeth Sims/syme. Elizabeth’s dad is Lancelot Sims. I have found the records for the 3 children but haven’t found one for Robert but that’s not to say there isn’t a link.
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@Neale1961 Eliza Moreton looks to be unmarried in the 1871 census, but living 2 doors away were members of the Mays family from Yarmouth. (William age 17, James Massey's son, and James' widow, Eliza)
Could you give me your thoughts on the 1871 census. Eliza Morton on all the other census's comes from Yarmouth but on this one, it says London, Middlesex? Is this likely a transcription error?
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I don't have a link to that particular census anymore, but I would certainly look at the original document, and not rely on a transcription.
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I took a look at the original document as well as the transcription and both documents say she was born middlesex. However, Eliza Morton on the rest of the census's found all say birmingham.
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Are you looking at the correct census?
The one I viewed in 1871 has her born Birmingham. She has her first 3 sons with her that are the same as family in 1881. Previous page is as Neale mentioned family of Thomas Mayes. Sis in law Eliza Mayes has born Middlesex, cannot comment as did not trace extended family.
Family is Morton on other records. Look for Albert Moreton age 2 son born Birmingham
1871 - Birmingham - Piece 3111, Folio 35, Page number 36
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https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2940027:7619?tid=171140111&pid=332576825322&queryId=d1aacc03-a119-4a04-8065-02fcf0bbea13&_phsrc=UEf85&_phstart=successSource
This is the 1871 census where on the previous page it has Eliza Mayes and son william. So is this Eliza Morton who got together with Thomas Mayes? Eliza and Thomas didn't marry.
Eliza Bassingthwaite was the widow of James born Norfolk, they had a son William born 1854