RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: martin hooper on Tuesday 28 May 24 11:19 BST (UK)
-
Hello
I'm hoping that fresh eyes might be able to find a way through this brickwall.
Edmund Dugoe and Katheren had several children in Amport Hampshire between 1675 and 1701. I can't find a marriage for Edmund and Katheren, or a baptism for Edmund. The children are Edmund 1675, Kathern 1678, John 1684, Mary 1686, William 1689, Elener 1692, Elizabeth 1696, Hannah 1701. All were baptised in Amport except Mary in Abbots Ann nearby.
There is a Dugoe family in Ludgershall Wiltshire (only about 3 miles away) that I feel sure must be connected with Edmund.
I would appreciate your help!
Thanks
Martin
-
Perhaps some kind soul will find the marriage or his baptism for you.
If not, you may well find that hearth tax returns will shed some light on this family. Some Hampshire ones were published by the Hampshire Record Society, and Wiltshire ones by the Wiltshire Arch. & Natural History Society. Further details on request. They may be online, but I can't readily say where.
-
There's a will of Salathiell Dugoe, Husbandman of Amport, Hampshire, 1637.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D871299
Also a will and inventory of Edward Dugoe of Shipton Bellinger, Hampshire, shepherd, 1641
https://calm.hants.gov.uk/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=1641AD%2f039&pos=1
-
Thanks to Vance.
Briefly, Salathiel's will: He was a husbandman, of Appleshaw, parish of Amport, married to Jane. He was sick. There was uncertainty, when the will was written, whether Jane was with child. He had brothers Edward, of Shipton, Thomas and John, all with children. Margerie Dugoe was a daughter of Edward. Salathiel had a brother-in-law, William Ecton, of Fiefield (sic). One of the witnesses was Mary Ecton.
You can download the will free under present arrangements.
-
Thanks to you both. I now have copies of both wills for investigation.
I need to look into the hearth tax. I've been aware of it for years but never used for research.
Martin
-
I've obtained a copy of the Hampshire Hearth Tax Assessments for 1665 - a book published by Hampshire County Council. Excellent value for £8.80.
There is only one Dugoe household in it - Widow Dugoe in Amport, exempt from paying.
My working assumption is that she is the mother of my Edmund Dugoe who was born in Amport in 1650.
Martin
-
Hello, Martin,
£8.80 is a square deal, I would say. There was another book with hearth tax returns, this one for Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, a large quarto book. I don't recall the bibliographical details, but I could find them if you are interested.
The year 1650 for the birth of Edmund seems new. How did you get that?
-
Hello Watson
Sorry, I should have said that the 1650 birth date is my rough estimate based on his first child Edmund born in 1675 (well, the first I have found), and his burial on 1st July 1715 in Amport.
I am interested in the details of the other Hampshire hearth tax book if it's not too much trouble. I've had no luck in finding Wiltshire hearth tax records yet, other than they are at the National Archives.
Thanks
Martin
-
I'm sorry, Martin, I was thinking of Hearth Tax Returns for the Isle of Wight 1664 to 1674, by P.D.D. Russell, but it is Isle of Wight only. I thought it was Hants. too. I will give some thought to Wiltshire hearth tax.
Does the burial of Edmund in 1715 give his age? By using 1650, you are ruling out the chance that his mother was Jane, the one who had lived and remained as a widow in Amport. Her husband had died long before 1650. His will raises the possibility that she was with child then; if she was, the child could have been Edmund, presumably?
-
Here are some records of a John Dugoe (possibly two individuals), of Collingbourne Kingston, about 12 miles from Amport.
1642 John Dugo of Collingbourne Kingston, husbandman, defendant for debt in Common Pleas
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/2497
1676 John Dugoe, of Collingbourne Kingston, Husbandman, administration and inventory
http://calmview.wiltshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=P3%2fD%2f164&pos=4
-
Does the burial of Edmund in 1715 give his age? By using 1650, you are ruling out the chance that his mother was Jane, the one who had lived and remained as a widow in Amport. Her husband had died long before 1650. His will raises the possibility that she was with child then; if she was, the child could have been Edmund, presumably?
No, there's no age on the burial. But that's an interesting thought. The will we are talking about was 1637 so Edmund could well have been born about then or earlier. But there seems to be no parish records for Amport earlier than 1665 so this may well have to remain as speculation.
Thanks for your help
Martin
-
Here are some records of a John Dugoe (possibly two individuals), of Collingbourne Kingston, about 12 miles from Amport.
Hello Vance
I've seen parish records for Dugoe in Collingbourne Kingston, but so far not found a link back from Edmund. What I'm aiming to do is bring together all of the records I can see for Dugoe in this area of Hampshire and Wiltshire and see if I can link them into families.
Thanks for your ideas.
Martin
-
Martin wrote: "But there seems to be no parish records for Amport earlier than 1665 ..."
Do you know what years the Bishop's Transcripts have survived for Amport? One way you could check that is by looking in National Index of Parish Registers - Hampshire and the Isle of Wight: Volume 8, Part 6, edited by Cliff Webb, S.O.G., 2000. (I don't have easy access to a copy, or I would check it for you).
-
Martin wrote: "But there seems to be no parish records for Amport earlier than 1665 ..."
Do you know what years the Bishop's Transcripts have survived for Amport? One way you could check that is by looking in National Index of Parish Registers - Hampshire and the Isle of Wight: Volume 8, Part 6, edited by Cliff Webb, S.O.G., 2000. (I don't have easy access to a copy, or I would check it for you).
Or simply check the Hampshire Archives online catalogue, which lists BTs from 1782 only.
https://calm.hants.gov.uk/Overview.aspx?s=21m65%2ff8
-
Martin, it's a bit grim if there are no Amport registers before 1665 and no B.T.s at all for the period in question. Did the will of Edward Dugoe of Shipton Bellinger not mention Edmund? I suppose you could investigate whether manorial records are any use to you. There seems to have been a Manor of Amport, but I don't know anything about it.
-
Did the will of Edward Dugoe of Shipton Bellinger not mention Edmund?
That 1641 probate mentions his wife Marjorie and daughter Marjorie. I have found a marriage in 1622 in Collingbourne Kingston Wiltshire (7 miles away) between Edward Dugoe and Margery Guy. That could be them.
Martin
-
And the other will of Salathiel Dugoe (1637) mentions his brother Edward and Edward's daughter Marjorie. It must surely be the same Edward/Marjorie in both wills.
Martin
-
I agree. It's almost certainly the same Edward and Marjorie.
-
I suppose you have probably considered this. In Salathiel's will of 1637 he mentioned his brothers Edward, Thomas, and John. Edward was married in Collingbourne Kingston and lived in Shipton Bellinger. John could be the John Dugoe of Collingbourne Kingston mentioned in 1642. And there's a Thomas Dugo or Dugoe who had children in Ludgershall in the 1620s and 1630s.
There are some earlier probate records of Robert Dugoe of Durrington, Wilts, husbandman, 1611: account, inventory, will.
http://calmview.wiltshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=P2%2fD%2f94&pos=2
-
Hello Vance
Yes that is exactly the way I'm thinking just now. I'm in the process of putting everyone with the Dugoe name into a tree (Family Tree Maker), to see how it might fit together. Thomas Dugoe from Ludgershall is the head of the family I mentioned in my original post. I find that it can take a lot of time just looking and thinking about the people and possible relationships. And yet when you see a possible connection (like the will of Edward - and he is mentioned in the will of Salathiel) it looks blindingly obvious, and you wonder why you never saw it before.
I've avoided going too far away geographically from my original area around Amport which is why I've not looked at the Durrington records. I think I will now on the basis of leaving no stone unturned.
I didn't mention in my original post why I'm interested in this line. Edmund Dugoe is my 7xGGrandfather.
Thanks
Martin
-
I presume you realise Edward/Edmund are often inter-changeable christian names?
Trish :)
-
I presume you realise Edward/Edmund are often inter-changeable christian names?
Trish :)
Hi Trish - yes indeed. The baptisms of Edmund's children - some have Edmund, some have Edward. I'm keeping an open mind to the possibility that any Edward could be my Edmund.
Thanks
Martin
-
This is probably the marriage of Thomas of Ludgershall, in 1619.
Dugoe, Thomas, of Chute, Wilts, keeper, 28, and Dorothy, dau. of
William Biggs, of Ludgershall, Wilts, sp., 21. 30 Oct.
https://archive.org/details/genealogist25selb/page/n353/mode/2up?q=dugoe&view=theater
-
Hello Vance
Yes that's what I thought. I've identified a lot of their children as well. I'm pretty confident this is the Thomas, brother of Salathiel in 1637. Helpfully from the marriage licence we have his age 28 - so born about 1591.
Thanks
Martin
-
Here's Thomas Dugoe family.
-
I think I've done all the research I can for now, so I thought it a good time to summarise my findings. I'm looking for the origins of Edmund Dugoe who died in 1715 in Amport and had eight children from 1675 onwards, seven in Amport.
It's worth keeping in mind that the name Dugoe is uncommon so there won't be many households/families at any one time.
The 1637 will of Salathiel Dugoe in Appleshaw (Amport) names three brothers, Thomas, Edward, and John. One of these four brothers is likely to be the father of Edmund.
Thomas (born 1591) lived with his wife Dorothy in Ludgershall Wiltshire. They had several children one called Edmund born in 1621. This seems to be too early to be my Edmund - he would have had his first child at the age of 54, and died at age 94. Possible but not very likely.
Edward lived in Shipton Bellinger with his wife Margery. They had a daughter Marjorie mentioned in Edward's 1641 will. If they are the parents of Edmund why wasn't he mentioned in the will?
John lived in Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire with his wife Priscilla. In his 1675 will he mentions a daughter Rose. They also had a daughter Jane. Again it seems unlikely that John is the father of Edmund.
Salathiel was married to Jane. They seem to be the most likely parents of Edmund, who would have been born around 1638 or earlier. But the lack of parish registers for Amport earlier than 1665 means that we have no proof. Amport is where Edmund lived all his life. If Edmund was born in 1638 he would have been aged 37 when his first child was born, and 77 when he died.
So for now my working assumption is that Salathiel and Jane are Edmund's parents.
Widow Dugoe of Amport is the only Dugoe household in the 1665 Hampshire hearth tax - and I think it's Jane.
Thanks to everyone for ideas and suggestions. I am much further forward now than at the start.
Martin
-
Hi Martin.
As nothing more can be confirmed I think this is a dead end for you.
You should be very proud to have got back that far as others get stuck in the 1700's or even 1800's.
All the best :)
-
One possibility for further research is manorial records. These are for the manor of Cholderton, in Amport. The 1671 record, with a list of tenants, might yield something.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F236351
This would probably require a visit to the Hampshire archives.
-
I live on the Isle of Wight so a day trip to the records office in Winchester is easy enough.
Thanks again to everyone.
Martin