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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Friday 13 September 24 19:11 BST (UK)
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I’m wondering if an obituary can be found for James Ovens, please, or any other document that might state his exact birthplace and parents/siblings. Several Ancestry trees state his birthplace was Inishmacsaint and/or Fermanagh, Ireland but there are no sources recorded. I am only interested in James, none of his family members, please. The following is information gathered so far. After a brief search, I have not yet found Barbara’s/Emily’s death. (Some trees state her name was Barbara Emily Birney, but again, I’ve not found a tree that includes sources.)
1861 Marysburgh, Prince Edward County, Ontario
James Ovens, age 57, born Ireland. Farmer. Church of England.
Living in the household (unless otherwise noted, born Upper Canada):
Emily, age 57, Ireland. M.A.(?), female, age 27. Adam, age 23. Tho., age 20. M.E., female, age 16.
1871 Marysburgh, Prince Edward County, Ontario
Born Ontario unless otherwise noted. Church of England.
James Ovens, age 65, Ireland, Farmer.
Barbara Ovens, age 65, Ireland. Thomas Ovens, age 28. Mary A Ovens, age 26. Melissa Ovens, age 5. Emily Ovens, age 3.
Adam Ovens, age 33. Jane A, age 26. Ida, age 9. Emma, age 3. Ella, born January.
1881 Marysburgh, Prince Edward County, Ontario
Born Ontario unless otherwise noted. Church of England.
Adam Ovns [sic], age 42, Carpenter. Jane, age 37. James, age 75, Ireland, widowed, Farmer. Emma, age 13. Mary, age 10. Fany, age 8. James, age 6. Ellon, age 3. Margret, age 1.
Schedule of deaths, North Marysburgh, Prince Edward County, Ontario
James Ovens, farmer, died 7 February 1883, age 77 years (born c1806). Born Ireland. Church of England.
I am hoping to find a connection to my ancestor, John Ovens, born c1809, most likely Corcloon/Corclune, Co. Fermanagh, Ireland. Possible parents were William Ovens and Elizabeth Stinson of Inishmacsaint Parish, Ireland. John died in 1885, Toronto, Canada. [I have details about John and his family. I cannot find proof for his exact birthplace and parents. Over the years, I’ve posted numerous topics about John Ovens and his possible siblings: Anne and Alexander.]
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Sorry Lisa, have had no joy so far. :-\
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Thank you very much for looking, Sandra! As mentioned in previous topics, my mum started looking for distant Ovens relatives when I was about 11 years old (when we were visiting Ireland). John’s early years are undocumented (at least I can’t find anything). I share a small amount of DNA with James Ovens’ descendants. Since nothing else has produced results, I’m trying to find out if James could be John’s brother, cousin or other relative. I live in hope of eventually finding proof that William and Elizabeth were John’s parents.
Sandra, thank you for trying! Lisa
Added: Our Ovens ancestors passed down first names. James Ovens gave his children very different first names than my Ovens families. I’m hoping that James and his wife chose names from her side, or they and their descendants just didn’t want to carry on the tradition.
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Have you tried contacting the Prince Edward County Archives?
https://www.pecarchives.org/
RK
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Hi RK. Most of my Canadian ancestors lived in and around Toronto. I did not know about the archives. I will check that now. Thank you so much!
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No luck with James either but a couple of other bits….
About Barbara…
You mentioned a last name Birney found in trees with no sources and I’m hoping this will give you one? Daughter Margaret Emily (M. E. in 1861 census?) apparently married a Charles Anderson in 1863. Her death cert from North Dakota USA in 1915 has her parents as James Ovens and Barbara Birney (image on ancestry).
I noticed that when Mary Ann (M. A. in 1861 census?) marries in 1863 she gives her birthplace as Ireland and appears to give Ireland as her birthplace in subsequent Canadian and US censuses. I don’t know anything about Irish records and their possible availabilty but wonder if trying to trace a Mary Ann back in Ireland might help with James, if you haven’t tried this already?
Anyway, food for thought.
PB
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About Barbara…
You mentioned a last name Birney found in trees with no sources and I’m hoping this will give you one?…
Thank you, PB! You’ve proved me wrong, twice. ;D I actually did see the North Dakota certificate, but it was at the beginning of my search and I didn’t put two and two together before posting this topic. After reading your post, I looked (a bit) at two of the family trees and just saw that one tree owner (“M”) includes the cert in Barbara Emily’s profile. So, she did include her source. Without your help, I don’t think I would have noticed the Birney reference.
I’ve not been especially lucky when searching Irish records but perhaps this time might be different.
Something that just occurred to me…years ago, I was communicating with another Ovens descendant - we couldn’t find our link even though both of our ancestors settled in Ontario around the same time (our ancestors had several occurrences in common). I believe his ancestor was William Ovens; I will check my records to see if William could be related to James.
Also, “M” has been online recently (it’s disappointing when they haven’t been active for months). After finding her tree, I decided to write to her as she does have a well put together tree. We do not share DNA which isn’t too surprising, or, perhaps the tree is not for her ancestors.
Anyway, thank you for noticing Birney and for your help and suggestions! I might find something helpful by contacting the archives, researching in Ireland and contacting M.
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Hey Lisa, I live about 45 minutes from the Prince Edward County Archives, if you need me go have a look in their collections.
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Happy to be able to help. :)
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The Freeholder Records for Ulster which date from the late 1700s to about 1830s show only a few Ovens families and these are all listed on the same page in 1796:
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/freeholders/DetailedSearchResultsImage.aspx?VolumeNo=18&PageNo=127&LineNum=8
Freeholders were men who either owned their land outright or who held it in a lease for the duration of their life, or the lives of other people named in the lease. Freeholders' records list freeholders who were entitled to vote and those who did vote at elections. Those allowed to vote:
1727-1793 - only Protestants with a freehold of at least 40 shillings a year could vote
1793-1829 - Protestants and Catholics with 40 shilling freeholds were allowed to vote
1829 onwards - the rate was increased to 10 pounds for everyone, stripping 40 shilling freeholders of their right to vote increasing the influence of landlords by effectively confining membership to the propertied and affluent classes
It is interesting that I'm not seeing any after 1800 indicating they had moved on or that their holdings were small.
A good site for the Ovens suname in Inishmacsaint:
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?CountyMap=&civilparishid=963&surname=Ovens&county=Fermanagh&civilparish=Inishmacsaint
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Hey Lisa, I live about 45 minutes from the Prince Edward County Archives, if you need me go have a look in their collections.
Thank you very much for your kind offer of help! I think at this moment that I will research a bit more to see what I can find out about James, and about Margret Ovens who married William Limebeer (this is the couple who my Ontario contact and I were trying to match with my John Ovens). If you lived closer to the archives then I would jump at the chance. :)
When hubby retires for the night, I will take a look at your 2:22 posting. Apologies for not looking now, I can’t concentrate unless all is quiet here. ;)
PS We found my John’s possible parents and siblings in one of the Inishmacsaint websites. As mentioned in another posting, a Jennie Stinson was living with John and his family in an Ontario census. I don’t know who she was; I tried researching her a few years ago but didn’t get very far. It’s possibly coincidental that in the website there is a record of William Ovens and Elizabeth Stinson - could this lady be Jennie’s relative - I don’t know. Thank you again! Apologies for rambling.
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The Freeholder Records for Ulster which date from the late 1700s to about 1830s show only a few Ovens families and these are all listed on the same page in 1796:
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/freeholders/DetailedSearchResultsImage.aspx?VolumeNo=18&PageNo=127&LineNum=8
Thank you for providing the link. I don’t believe that I’ve seen it before, or, at least I didn’t retain the material.
Included in the list was
1796 Wm Ovens, abode place - Drumavel(?). Devonish Parish(?)
I looked at another Anc*try tree, this time at “N’s” tree. “N” states James Ovens’ parents were William Ovens and Anne Drinnan.
A source in the tree
Griffith’s Valuation Ireland, 1848-1864. (A number of years after 1796, but…)
William Ovens, Drumanure, Devenish, Fermanagh
Could Drumanure actually be Drumavel? :-\
“N” states William was born in Tulnagoan. I will check a map for their locations.
Upper Inishmacsaint baptisms include
Year and Date Father Mother Child Residence
1803 Sept 11 Ovens, Wm. Stinson, Elizabeth Alexr. Corcloon
1806 Dec 28 Ovens, Wm. Drinnan, Anne James. Tonegmevin
1807 May 03 Ovens, Wm. Stinson, Elizabeth Anne Corcloon
1810 May 27 Ovens, Wm. Davis, Mary Mary (illegit.) (Blank)
1811 Jun 23 Ovens, Wm. Ovens, Elizth. John Corclune
https://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/churches/1803-1814-up-inismacsaintbap.html
My John’s date of birth varies. In 1850, he was born c1814. In other documents, he stated he was born c1809. (1881 census - born c1811.) I don’t believe I know his birth month. Anyway, I will keep researching James Ovens and his possible parents, William Ovens and Anne Drinnan. Of course, I will also try to contact “M”.
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I am still able to view my mum’s DNA results (she passed away a few years ago). She has a match with “G” who has the following in their tree:
Alexander Stinson, born 7 Nov 1816, Drumanure, Dev, Fermanagh, Northern Ireland
Only one child listed: Moses Stinson, born c1854, Ireland.
According to the 1901 census, Moses arrived in Canada in 1872 and settled in Ontario.
In another tree, several children are shown for Alexander Stinson. It will take a bit of digging (for me) to see if it was just a coincidence that Drumanure was mentioned for Ovens and (so far, unrelated) Stinson folks. Perhaps Alexander Stinson was Elizabeth Stinson’s nephew or cousin. :-\
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Moses' marriage record in 1885 names his parents as Alex & Jane Stinson, aged 32, a widower, born Ireland, to Deborah Strong, aged 26, b. Wallace Township, daughter of James & Elizabeth Strong; witnesses are James A. Strong, Palmerston, and Mary A. Stinson, Durham.
It's unclear which Durham is referred to here. There is the town of Durham in Bentinck Township, Grey County, northwest of Palmerston where the couple were married, and there was also a Durham County east of the current city of Toronto.
However, she is likely the Mary Ann Stinson aged 14 in the 1881 Census in Bentinck Township living with her parents, James & Alice, with James born in Ireland and Alice born in Ontario.
In the 1861 Census, there is a James Stinson, aged 25 in Minto Township, Wellington County. He marries Alice Blackstock in Perth, Ontario in 1863. It names his parents as James & Elizabeth (so not Moses' brother), and James, the groom, was born in Co. Fermanagh, Ireland.
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1st marriage for Moses 03 Aug 1876 in Palmerston
To
Elizabeth Jane Strong who appears to be a sister to his second wife
Parents for Moses are Alex Stinson and Jane McBrien
Parents for Elizabeth are James Strong and Eliza Servis(?)
Witnesses Alex ? and Deborah Strong of Palmerston
PB
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Thank you both very, very much. It is starting to look like my John’s parents could have been from Inishmacsaint Parish - it just seems too coincidental that Ovens and Stinson were both in the same area in Ireland and some eventually settled in Ontario.
My John actually lived in New Jersey (and married Jane Wakefield in 1842); he was a school teacher in 1850. By the early 1850s (the date is filed in a binder), he was a merchant in Toronto, Ontario, eventually owning a fancy goods shop. I don’t know the reason for the move - perhaps to follow relatives?
I’ve never found a marriage document for John and Jane. I was just checking online websites - so far it appears that marriage records were not issued or kept by the state for that decade. Decades ago (I started researching when I was in college), I ordered and received my great-grandfather’s birth record (Robert was the son of John and Jane); it had limited details. I don’t believe a church was mentioned. Perhaps if I can find their church and church marriage document, I might find the name of John’s parents.
As mentioned, John’s possible brother was Alexander. I wonder if that was a name handed down from the Stinson side.
As mentioned in previous posts about John Ovens (and there are a number of posts!) :-X , during the late 1960s, my mum and a possible distant Irish relative were certain of the connection between our families. I found out decades later that while we could still be related, the John they believed to be our John was not the correct man. This is the reason I want proof - I can’t assume I found John’s parents.
1st marriage for Moses 03 Aug 1876 in Palmerston
To
Elizabeth Jane Strong who appears to be a sister to his second wife
Parents for Moses are Alex Stinson and Jane McBrien
Parents for Elizabeth are James Strong and Eliza Servis(?)
Witnesses Alex ? and Deborah Strong of Palmerston
PB
I ran across the name McBrien either in one of the trees or on an Irish website. I’ll check it out.
Thank you both immensely. You’ve been incredibly helpful. Lisa
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I am still able to view my mum’s DNA results (she passed away a few years ago). She has a match with “G” who has the following in their tree:
Alexander Stinson, born 7 Nov 1816, Drumanure, Dev, Fermanagh, Northern Ireland
Only one child listed: Moses Stinson, born c1854, Ireland.
According to the 1901 census, Moses arrived in Canada in 1872 and settled in Ontario…
His wife was recorded as Jane McBrien.
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My thought is better you see something twice than not at all so I was wondering if you have seen this on the familysearch website?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1675446
PB
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My thought is better you see something twice than not at all so I was wondering if you have seen this on the familysearch website?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1675446
PB
PB, I’ve been researching the Ovens for so long that even if I’ve seen a website or any document before, I may have forgotten the details, new material could have been added, or I now have better ways of researching. So any suggestions are very helpful. ;) No, I don’t believe I’ve seen New Jersey marriages before. There is an error message, “Something Went Wrong” (I’ve tried a few times) when trying to view the image for a James Ovens. I will continue to check today.
While I didn’t immediately see any results for John Ovens or Wakefield, I haven’t tried all spelling variations.
Thank you VERY much for the suggestion. Hubby just arrived home with groceries, I have to run, but I will be back later today. Really quickly, Ancestry does have New Jersey marriages but it is possible the results do not include Jersey City (I believe that’s where they were living - I need to check my notes).
Last thing, I don’t remember if I mentioned it in this topic (can’t reread it now)…my grandparents passed away before my birth/shortly after. My mum’s Ovens uncle (and the only elderly relative) was like a grandfather to me. I have so many memories of him, his house, our family times spent together. I think that is why I’m so determined to learn more about the Ovens.
Added: while looking at Ancestry marriages, I (again) came across a possibility for John Ovens in connection with a New Jersey church. I will research that this afternoon.
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Added: while looking at Ancestry marriages, I (again) came across a possibility for John Ovens in connection with a New Jersey church. I will research that this afternoon.
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He is noted as a member of the Chesbury Circuit Methodist meeting in New Germantown on June 20, 1840.
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Thank you for your continued help, Eileen! I get so frustrated searching for John Ovens. The interest and help I’ve received in this topic (and the other Ovens topics) keeps me motivated. I feel like there is still something to be found so I don’t want to finally give up.
“That” J. Ovens/John Ovens can be found on Ancestry between 1839 and 1841 in the United Methodist Church records. I haven’t yet found this man in non-church records between 1839 and 1841 in New Jersey. I believe the actual word might be Cokesbury not Chesbury. I know that I’ve searched numerous times for Ovens using the word Asbury (there are two or three church records for Asbury). I don’t believe I’ve searched for Cokesbury/Chesbury. I also don’t believe that I’ve ever searched for the other men listed with John. Doing so might provide clues for their residences or other helpful details. Thank you for finding the record - I now have two more ways to search. :)
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I can't remember if you've seen this from the old Ovens' posts, but it mentions a relative "O'Malley", from either John Ovens or Jane Wakefield's side.
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-windsor-star-jane-wakefield-ovens/155584937/
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Thank you for posting the obit, bbart. We actually have an original obituary from 1928 that is slightly different than the one you found. It also has her photo; she looked very kind.
However, it’s great to see this article, and refresh my memory. I knew John Ovens owned a fancy goods shop but the article is a reminder of when he started the business. I wonder if he came into money; he was a school teacher when they lived in New Jersey.
Mrs. J. L. O’Malley was my great-grandfather’s twin sister (John’s and Jane’s children).
Someone in my mum’s family - I believe it was Jane Wakefield Ovens - supposedly had a “sewing accident” with her finger one day (I’ll not go into details). :-X While the other women in the room were aghast, Jane calmly collected herself and marched across the road to the local doctor. Everything eventually turned out ok.
“She was barely 20 when she married John Ovens…” - so they were possibly married around January 1842 (Jane was born 25 December 1822). I don’t believe I knew the approximate month of their marriage.
Tonight, I started compiling all of the facts that have been discovered about John and those associated with him, placing things in chronological order. Perhaps it will help, perhaps not, but at least I will have everything in one place.
I did find something that could be helpful regarding Jane Wakefield. I was always told that Jane was “from” Tuam, Ireland. Other Wakefield descendants (also with whom I share DNA) state that their Wakefields were from Ballinasloe (which is a bit of a drive from Tuam). Tonight, while looking at Newark, NJ city directories, I found a Nathaniel Wakefield living at the same address as John and Jane in 1851. I don’t believe he was her brother; possibly he was a cousin. This could be a lead to discovering more about her family. :)
Thank you for finding and posting the article, bbart. The obit provides details for my Ovens write-up.
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About your Nathaniel Wakefield:
In the 1850 census in Newark, he is aged 33, born Ireland, a baker by profession. He is living with his wife Mary A., aged 34, also born Ireland. No children listed for the couple. Neighbouring households are a Samuel Webster and an Eli Moore if you are looking for them in the directory.
By 1860, he and Mary A. are both 40, and he is noted as a hatter (change of profession). Still no children, but there is a Helen Howard, aged 22, a dressmaker, living with them.
Looks like Nathaniel & Mary A., arrived aboard the ship "Empire State" into New York on May 18, 1850 so just in time to be caught in the 1850 Census.
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Just found a baptism for a child born to Nathaniel Wakefield and Mary Ann Howard named Robert Francis in Catholic parish records in Ballinasloe, Clonfert on 28 July 1843; sponsors are John Legat and Margaret Howard (original in Latin).
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Also in those directories is a Joseph Wakefield, a hatter, which matches Nathaniel. In the 1850 Census, Joseph is 52, born Ireland, and has wife Isabella, aged 38, along with children William, 6, Thomas, 3, and Francis, aged 1. All but the youngest were born in Ireland, suggesting an immigration date of around 1848. Joseph died in 1856.
The family arrived aboard the Forfarshire on May 12, 1848 into New York out of Liverpool. Isabella may have been an Owens/Ovens.
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Eileen, thank you very much for finding so many details.
We are waiting for a plumber to call. We have a fairly serious leak. I will hopefully return here today. Thank you again!
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Eileen, thank you again for finding everything. I think it would be best for me to start a new topic, about the Wakefield families, once I’ve exhausted Ovens leads.
In summary, though:
- Nathaniel was possibly a baker in 1850, until he secured a job as a hatter. He was recorded in the Newark City Directory (printed [late?] 1850) as a hatter. In the 1851 printing, he and John Ovens and family were living at the same address. I originally envisioned Nathaniel (since he was a recent immigrant) moving in with John and his family. However, there possibly were several units in the building, or another possibility is John and family moved in with Nathaniel and Mary Ann. Who knows, eh? Nathaniel continued to live at that address at least two years after John Ovens settled in Toronto, Canada.
- I will eventually research Helen Howard.
Just found a baptism for a child born to Nathaniel Wakefield and Mary Ann Howard named Robert Francis in Catholic parish records in Ballinasloe, Clonfert on 28 July 1843; sponsors are John Legat and Margaret Howard (original in Latin).
Great find! May I ask, please, did you find the information using FamilySearch? Hmm, possibly Margaret and Helen Howard were related.
William Joseph Wakefield and Isabella Owens were mentioned in the Wakefield Memorial book (found on Ancestry). As mentioned in the book, William Joseph was the possible son of Richard and Judith Wakefield. A few years ago, I found a few DNA matches for descendants of Mrs. Judith Wakefield of Newark.
I will copy and paste the Wakefield details into a separate Word document, as I’m doing with Ovens, and will follow up the leads. Thank you again, Eileen!
[I’ve recorded in the Ovens Word document all city directory entries for John Ovens and Wakefields. A few years ago, a kind RootsChatter also sent me Jersey City entries.]
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The baptism was found in the Catholic parish records available on Ancestry, but it should also be available on FamilySearch. It certainly places them in the right location for your Ovens.
Hope you were able to stop the flood and that there wasn't too much damage.
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In August, we found a water leak (once the ground turned swampy) in our front yard. Our plumber was able to repair the underground pipe the next day. On Thursday, a water company technician noticed the meter was running which meant we had another significant leak. We fortunately were able to get the pipe repaired on Friday (same pipe, adjacent to the original break). We typically use 1,750 (cubic feet?) for two months. Our last water bill showed 13,500 usage; we owe about $850 USD. We are dreading the next water bill as it will also be huge, possibly more expensive. We are hoping to dig up and replace the entire pipe next week. Hopefully, the repair holds until this can be done. But, thank you for your positive thoughts. :)
I don’t think I’ve checked Irish Catholic records for Wakefields. Thank you for finding that! I do now believe Jane Wakefield Ovens was related to the Ballinasloe Wakefields (especially since I have DNA matches with Wakefields from this area). I need to thoroughly understand the Wakefield relationships in the Wakefield book (sooo many names are mentioned in the Irish-American section) and make a list of my DNA matches. Thank you, Eileen, for finding different paths to explore.
Note: like some family trees, there are small mistakes in the book, which I will keep in mind.