RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: BJC2020 on Monday 25 November 24 20:55 GMT (UK)
-
I am researching my great grandfather John Lloyd. I have his service parchment indicating that he was born in Nenagh Parish near the town of Nenagh Tipperary. His parchment is dated 19 December 1854 with his age at that time as 20.
I visited Nenagh and the genealogy centre there and found plenty of Lloyds but not my grandfather. I understand a lot of the records have been lost or destroyed. I did find a John Loyd born of William Loyd and Mary Whelan born 2 July 1834 I think or it could be the date he was baptised I am not sure. It was in parish records of Templemore. I cant verify if this is the same John Lloyd despite trying to cross reference information through DNA etc.
He was Catholic
Any help appreciated.
-
I am researching my great grandfather John Lloyd. I have his service parchment indicating that he was born in Nenagh Parish near the town of Nenagh Tipperary. His parchment is dated 19 December 1954 with his age at that time as 20.
I visited Nenagh and the genealogy centre there and found plenty of Lloyds but not my grandfather. I understand a lot of the records have been lost or destroyed. I did find a John Loyd born of William Loyd and Mary Whelan born 2 July 1834 I think or it could be the date he was baptised I am not sure. It was in parish records of Templemore. I cant verify if this is the same John Lloyd despite trying to cross reference information through DNA etc.
Any help appreciated.
I think you mean 1854, not 1954?
You left out a key point: his religion.
Catholic records are extant for Nenagh, Protestant not.
-
Have a look at Nenagh Military History on Facebook
and they may be able to help you
https://www.facebook.com/groups/988307525310263
P.J.
-
Thanks PJ unfortunately I am no longer a Facebook user following some issues I had years ago.
-
Thanks I have corrected it and included that he was a Catholic
I think you mean 1854, not 1954?
You left out a key point: his religion.
Catholic records are extant for Nenagh, Protestant not.
[/quote]
-
This looks like your John Lloyd (marriage from a published tree and checked record)
Marriage 3rd June 1866 St Nicholas, Liverpool (Church of England)
John Lloyd and Elizabeth Taylor
Father William Lloyd, labourer
1871 3840 /5/8
John Lloyd 36 yrs labourer b Tipperary, Templemore
Elizabeth Lloyd 27 yrs
Mary M Lloyd 3 rs
John W Lloyd 1 yr
Edith Hardwick 7 yrs lodger
Baptism (from Latin) St Joseph’s Liverpool
24th May 1868 born 24th January 1868
Mary Margaret - parents John and Elizabeth Taylor
Baptism (from Latin) Sacred Heart, Liverpool
28th December 1869, born 6th September 1869
John William Lloyd - parents John and Elizabeth Taylor
Other children baptised at Sacred Heart
Arthur Richard, 1873
George Henry b 1875, baptised 1876
It looks as though the family were Catholic and Templemore and father William looks good too.
-
Thanks Heywood that is extremely helpful and it does give credence to his father being William Lloyd. I always associated the LL in Lloyd as being Welsh.
-
Here is the baptism you found - July 2nd 1834.
John Lloyd with parents John and, I think it says Margt Whelan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632697?locale=en#page/144/mode/1up
The residence looks like Church St
-
That's fantastic thank you. Would Michael Hanlon and Catherine Gleeson be witnesses?
-
They would be his Sponsors or Godparents.
In 1891, your John also gives Templemore as his birthplace.
-
William Lloyd and Margaret Whelan married Templemore 7-Feb-1826.
-
Thank you Wexflyer and Heywood very helpful
-
There is a baptism of a William Lloyd in the parish of Templetuohy, which adjoins Templemore, on 24-11-1809. Son of William Lloyd and Bridget Leahy [Lahy in original]
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632752#page/10/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632752#page/10/mode/1up)
Would have been a bit young to be the William who married in Templemore in 1826, but possible.
-
William Lloyd and Bridget Leahy had at least 8 children baptized in the parish of Templetuohy, 1809-1828.
-
Wow a large family indeed. I think all leads are worth following even if improbable. Thank you
-
William Lloyd and Margaret Whelan had at least 5 children baptized in the parish of Templemore.
Mary, 1828
William, 1831
John, 1834
Michael, 1837
Mary, 1839
The address for the first three is Church St.
That the eldest son was named William strongly suggests that William's father was also William (eldest son named for paternal grandfather).
-
Is Templemore a town and was it three Church Street Templemore
-
Sorry yes I gather it's a town. Would the houses still be standing from so long ago?
-
Sorry yes I gather it's a town. Would the houses still be standing from so long ago?
Could be - depends!
-
There are 20 entries for Lloyd in the tythe valuation for the civil parish (not Catholic) of Templemore.
Including a William Lloyd, Esq. with over 22 acres - presumably Irish (not English) acres.
-
There are 4 Lloyd entries in the tythe valuation of the civil parish of Templetuohy.
-
And 4 Lloyd entries in the tythe valuation for the civil parish of Moyne, which is part of the Catholic parish of Templetuohy.
-
Is Templemore a town and was it three Church Street Templemore
I meant the address for the first three children baptized was Church St., not 3 Church St.
-
It is clear from the tythe valuations that there were several Lloyd landholding families in the area (landlords). OPs family may have been a trickle down effect....
-
Google maps link for Church St. Templemore.
There is also a separate Church Ave.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Church+St,+Co.+Tipperary,+Ireland/@52.7971971,-7.8320827,543m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x485ce80f535c8fb9:0x5e0ef337f3d85747!8m2!3d52.7987053!4d-7.8306075!16s%2Fg%2F1tgnlh43?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExOS4yIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Church+St,+Co.+Tipperary,+Ireland/@52.7971971,-7.8320827,543m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x485ce80f535c8fb9:0x5e0ef337f3d85747!8m2!3d52.7987053!4d-7.8306075!16s%2Fg%2F1tgnlh43?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExOS4yIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
-
Thank you for all that work it is very appreciated.
-
You can access the tythe valuations at this link
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp)
-
There is even a Lloydsborough townland in the parish of Templemore!
Lewis' directory of 1837 lists the principal landowners in the locality at the time:
Lloydsborough is the seat of J. Lloyd, Esq.; part of the demesne is in Killea, though the mansion is in the parish of Templemore; it is a handsome residence in a well-planted demesne.
I think we can safely conclude that Lloyd was an established name in the vicinity for some considerable time.
-
One anomaly is that I can't find this Lloyd family in Griffith's Valuation, which was published in 1850 for Tipperary. No sign of them in either Templemore or Nenagh that I can see - yet they should be there, if John signed up there in 1854.
-
Sorry yes I gather it's a town. Would the houses still be standing from so long ago?
One feature of the town that is still there from the time of William and John is what was the military barracks, now the Garda Training College.
-
Link for Lloydsborough townland, just outside Templemore.
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ikerrin/killea/lloydsborough/ (https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ikerrin/killea/lloydsborough/)
-
Link for Lloydsborough townland, just outside Templemore.
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ikerrin/killea/lloydsborough/ (https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ikerrin/killea/lloydsborough/)
OpenStreetMap
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5438472#map=11/52.7526/-7.8346
-
Thanks Wexflyer and Kiltaglassan really appreciate all your work. I am so pleased to be able to fill in the pieces of the puzzle.
Best wishes
Brian
-
There is even a Lloydsborough townland in the parish of Templemore!
Lewis' directory of 1837 lists the principal landowners in the locality at the time:
Lloydsborough is the seat of J. Lloyd, Esq.; part of the demesne is in Killea, though the mansion is in the parish of Templemore; it is a handsome residence in a well-planted demesne.
I think we can safely conclude that Lloyd was an established name in the vicinity for some considerable time.
When I went to Nenagh and paid a considerable sum for the local genealogical centre to do some research for me. They gave me a list of the Lloyds from Killea. Apparently they were very wealthy landowners so not related to my family who ended up living in Toxteth Park in Liverpool in the early days. I went to Killea to view the cemetery and asked a local for directions. She responded by asking me who I was looking for and she prompted to tell me that a number of people had recently been looking for the Lloyd family. She said, "I will tell you what I told them, you'll be getting nothing out of us". On that note I wandered over to the Church and found the cemetery with a number of Lloyds buried there. It would have been over 10 years ago at least so that shows you how long I have been looking.
Thanks again everybody, especially Wexyflyer.
-
hello
Gosh, what an unhelpful lady you spoke to. Was she Caretaker for the cemetery?
Regards
-
hello
Gosh, what an unhelpful lady you spoke to. Was she Caretaker for the cemetery?
Regards
She probably meant that he wasn't going to get a penny of the rint arrears!
-
hello
Gosh, what an unhelpful lady you spoke to. Was she Caretaker for the cemetery?
Regards
Unfortunately the conversation didn't go that far and I suspect she was referring to the wealthy landowners Lloyds. Wexflyer identified a Lloydsborough and no doubt descendants of the family had been doing some prospecting. All I wanted was to find out something of my forebears.
-
There is a record for who I think is him in the Length of Service Pensions, Admission Books on fold3. Is 137 Radcliffe St., Liverpool an associated address? If so, pm me an email address and i will send you what there is.
-
Thanks Heywood that is extremely helpful and it does give credence to his father being William Lloyd. I always associated the LL in Lloyd as being Welsh.
Don't forget that Oliver Cromwell raised an army, and many soldiers were from Wales, to come to this part of Ireland and soldiers who remained were rewarded with land. My Williams forebears from Nenagh harken back to a Welsh soldier in Cromwell's army, apparently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland
and some resources mentioned in the thread below
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888816.msg7622676#msg7622676
-
Thanks Shanreagh that is very interesting. I understand the double L in Lloyd suggests that family name is Welsh.
-
Thanks Shanreagh that is very interesting. I understand the double L in Lloyd suggests that family name is Welsh.
Yes that is my understanding as well.
-
One feature of the town that is still there from the time of William and John is what was the military barracks, now the Garda Training College.
MapGenie 25 Inch - ITM in BaseMap Gallery
https://arcg.is/0fG085
At the end of Back Road (now Talavara).
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tm6/