RootsChat.Com

General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 15:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 15:35 GMT (UK)
Hello, I am looking for military information on a John H Armstrong. He was born in 1893 in Wigan to John Armstrong and Sarah Ann.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 15:52 GMT (UK)
There are 3 John Armstrong with births registered in Wigan in 1893 but no John H Armstrong  :-\. What was Sarah Ann's maiden name
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:00 GMT (UK)
Is this his baptism with no middle name

Baptism: 24 Apr 1893 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire
John Armstrong - [Child] of John Armstrong & Sarah Ann
Born: 1 Apr
Abode: Scholes
Occupation: Collier

Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 16:01 GMT (UK)
Over 60% of WW1 service records were destroyed during the WW2 blitz.  Those that survived are available on the subscription sites such as Ancestry & FindMyPast

There is no service record on Ancestry

The WW1 Medal Roll Index has 13 John H Armstrong entries so you would need to supply details of his regiment & if possible his service number to determine the correct entry

You haven't given his middle name but there is no John H Armstrong birth in Wigan on freebmd between 1892-1894.  One in Liverpool & one in Burnley  www.freebmd.org.uk



Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:03 GMT (UK)
Is this his baptism with no middle name

Baptism: 24 Apr 1893 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire
John Armstrong - [Child] of John Armstrong & Sarah Ann
Born: 1 Apr
Abode: Scholes
Occupation: Collier

Parents marriage  :-\
Marriage Jun qtr 1881   
Armstrong    John       
STRONG    Sarah Ann       
Wigan    8c   89

Johns birth reg with no middle name
ARMSTRONG, JOHN       mmn STRONG
GRO Reference: 1893  June Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 53
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 16:09 GMT (UK)
Where does he fit into your FH?   Do you have him on the 1901/1911/1921 census with a middle name.  What was his middle name?

Is there any possibility you may have the wrong person?
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Rosie99, yes that's is his Baptism records
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: cath151 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:15 GMT (UK)
Did he marry (H)Ellen Gerrald in 1913? Address given Scholes. Wigan.
There is a Joe Armstrong
Pte 1/5 Manchester Regiment 200358
POW record of this man gives Ellen Armstrong as nok.Address 2 Swan Terrace, Wigan.

Cathy

Name John on campaign medal rolls for no 200358
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi CaroleW, his middle name is Hector. sorry but I have no information at all. John Hector Armstrong is my father in-law's maternal grandfther, and there are rumours he was a POW.
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:19 GMT (UK)
Who did he marry, where and when
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 16:20 GMT (UK)
There is no birth for that name - where did you get his birthplace & birthyear from?
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:23 GMT (UK)
hi cath151, yes he married Elen Gerrald 20 Dece 1913
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 16:25 GMT (UK)
A tree on Ancestry shows all the details already found here plus death in 1961

Death entry is just John - not John Hector

The 1913 marriage was at St George in Wigan
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:29 GMT (UK)
This is the info I have.
He is my father in-law's maternal grandfather. We know he was born around 1893, married Ellen Gerrald in 1913. My father in-law was told he was  a POW on WWI, but no idea of regiment. I have a 1901 Census for a Hannah Armstrong 55 in Wigan with a child John of 8 years old, so maybe his mother was Hannah.
No other information
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:31 GMT (UK)
That census you are quoting says that he is Hannah's grandson
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:31 GMT (UK)
Sorry (H)Ellen Gerrard
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:33 GMT (UK)
rosie99, Damn you are right
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:33 GMT (UK)
Marriage: 20 Dec 1913 St George, Wigan, Lancashire
John Armstrong - 20, Collier, Bachelor, 6 School St.
Ellen Gerrard - 18, Card room worker, Spinster, 2 Swan Terrace
    Groom's Father: John Armstrong, (deceased), Collier
    Bride's Father: James Gerrard, Collier
    Witnesses: William Waite; Annie Gerrard
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 26 December 24 16:37 GMT (UK)
The School Street that he gives at marriage ties in with that family in 1911.
1911 has him as nephew of Letitia. 
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 16:38 GMT (UK)
thanks Rosie, I have this information
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 17:18 GMT (UK)
There is a Medal Roll Index card matching the service number found by Cath - 200358 Manchester Regiment - rank = Private

British/Victory & 15 star medals - Theatre of War The Balkans 6.5.1915

The only strange thing is it shows a correspondence address on 7.9.1938 - 17 Station Rd   Easington Colliery County Durham

Does that address make any sense to you?

There is a Fold 3 entry on Ancestry showing he was discharged 13.4.1919
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 17:31 GMT (UK)
If it's the correct entry - the 1939 register entry date of birth does not support a baptism in April 1893

Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 18:18 GMT (UK)
There is something not right with John's fathers name which has been bugging me

1901 - John Armstrong aged 8 & George Armstrong aged 11 are shown as grandsons of widow Hannah Armstrong who also has a daughter Letitia aged 18 & son James aged 25.  In 1891 George is shown as the 2yr old son of John & Anna Armstrong.  John was born Ireland.

GRO online shows grandson George was illegitimate.

John snr was previously married to Letitia Pearse in 1862 - she died in 1874 & he then married Hannah Birch in 1874.  Neither marriage produced a son called John yet John b 1893 gave it as his fathers name when he married Ellen in 1913

See Rosie's reply re 1911 when John is with his aunt Letitia. 

The above plus his birthdate on the 1939 register points to his parents not being John & Sarah Ann nee Strong



Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 18:44 GMT (UK)
George Armstrong married Alice Hall also in 1913 & gave his fathers name as George - deceased
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: antolinsoldado on Thursday 26 December 24 19:08 GMT (UK)
WOW!!!
Thank you for all this information. it looks like I am going to have to have to do loads of research before I get a straight answer.
Again than you to the ones who have helped
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 20:26 GMT (UK)
I think it may be useful to purchase a digital copy of George's birth cert - they only cost £3 would but give his mothers name.

John & Letitia had a daughter Nancy b 1867 & a daughter Anna (Hannah) b 1869 either of whom could have been his mother

Nancy only married in 1896 & Hannah married 1892 which lets her out of the running as mum of John
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: cath151 on Thursday 26 December 24 21:03 GMT (UK)
Pow record gives dob as 13-1-93 wigan.
Cathy
Title: Re: Information on a John H Armstrong
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 26 December 24 22:14 GMT (UK)
Excellent find Cathy.  He must be the illegitimate birth March qtr 1893 Wigan 8c 44.  Birth month wrongly transcribed as June on Ancestry 1939 register - correction notified

Would now recommend downloading the above birth cert as well as George's - could be the same mother on both