So where have you got the information with the marriage date in 1868 please? is it from Family Search?I couldn't find anything in FamilySearch about it.
Ok, so it looks like the NLI register says Staghall, which (I'm as I'm learning right now) is another town/church, near Belturbet.
Which wouldn't make sense, as her birth place was Feugh Bishops and his birthplace (Creeny) are by Milltown.
Unless, of course, her birth place was actually Feugh Maxwell, and at some point along the way, was confused with Feugh Bishops. Feugh Maxwell is closer to Staghall than Milltown.
So did William die in 1879 of phthisis?Yes, there might be a tiny bit of doubt left, but I couldn't find any children after Feb 1880, and I couldn't find any more dog registrations stopped in 1878.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06496/4870050.pdf
The church, St Mary's, at the link above is in Staghall.I think I am more confused new. Looking at Griffith's Valuation on RootsIreland.ie, there are Donohues in Feugh (Bishops), and none in Feugh Maxwell. And Patrick's birth record says Feugh Bishop as well: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634853#page/87/mode/1up
Info on the town land of DrumlaneI've only had significant luck with 1 of the 8 children. No 1901 census, marriage records, or obvious death records I could find.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/drumlane/
ETA Which the children are you missing Irish Genealogy links for?
If they actually lived in Feugh Bishops, they would have gone right by St Patrick's in Milltown, and go another 4.4km to St Mary's in Staghall.
I think this might be an exception to the rule here.
If they actually lived in Feugh Bishops, they would have gone right by St Patrick's in Milltown, and go another 4.4km to St Mary's in Staghall.
There can be more than one church in a parish. While the records will be for all, the records will take the name of the parish church. Is that what is happening here?
I think this might be an exception to the rule here.
There are so many possibilities. This situation may or may not be unusual.
What was William Maguires occupation? It makes a huge difference if he was a farmer versus laborer, versus something else. Specifically, it tells us whether the family was likely to have stayed in one place, or have moved around.
What did the children/adults die of? If TB, then that could wipe out entire families - I have seen many instances.
As one family member emigrated, it is easy to suppose that others did also, and simply disappear from Irish records.
Oh, and lots of women never married.
What was William Maguires occupation? It makes a huge difference if he was a farmer versus laborer, versus something else. Specifically, it tells us whether the family was likely to have stayed in one place, or have moved around.Listed as a farmer on his children civil birth records and the death record I assume was for him. I'm not well versed in the finer implications in the differences, but I assume a laborer would move around while a farmer would stay in one place? Really good question to ask, thank you.
What did the children/adults die of? If TB, then that could wipe out entire families - I have seen many instances. One possible record for William says he did die of TB.I'm 90% sure that was the same William that died of TB in 1879. I found a death certificate for Terence, died age 2 in 1880 of enteritis. But again, really haven't found any other civil records for the children
[William was] Listed as a farmer on his children civil birth records and the death record I assume was for him. I'm not well versed in the finer implications in the differences, but I assume a laborer would move around while a farmer would stay in one place? Really good question to ask, thank you.
I'm 90% sure that was the same William that died of TB in 1879. I found a death certificate for Terence, died age 2 in 1880 of enteritis. But again, really haven't found any other civil
I have not been able to find any other church records for the Maguire side of the family, except on the RootsIreland.ie index. The RootsIreland.ie index had links to the NLI parish registers, but I could never find an actual entry on them.
I asked RootsIreland about it and they said NLI only has the St Mary's Church for the Staghall area, but not the St Patrick's Church in Milltown. I think they since removed the NLI links for St Patrick's church records, but I no longer have an active subscription there to confirm.
What was John Maguires wife's name please?Mary, was listed as Maguire in the baptism records I found
There is also Griffith's Valuation, of 1857, to search, but I have had enough for tonight!Yes, you've certainly given me a lot go through! Thank you!!
1855 record for Patrick Donohoe's holding in Feaugh.So first off, this was helpful, I didn't think to check these records.
You can see the size, condition and rating of his house, barn and byre.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf)
1855 record for Patrick Donohoe's holding in Feaugh.
You can see the size, condition and rating of his house, barn and byre.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf)
Feaugh is in the Loughtree Upper Barony would have been 30km away from Feugh Bishops, in the Loughtee Lower Barony/Drumlane parish.
So unless I'm mistaken, not likely to be a match.
1855 record for Patrick Donohoe's holding in Feaugh.Unfortunately, searching the Valuation office books (https://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/index.jsp), I don't see any maguires or donohoe's in the Drumlane parish
You can see the size, condition and rating of his house, barn and byre.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf)
Patrick Donohoe's holding in the 1834 tythe valuation.Same thing here, parish of Lavey, matches the feaugh of the first record.
Note the areas are Irish, not English acres.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625690/004625690_00526.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625690/004625690_00526.pdf)
Very fair questions to ask, and I certainly don't want to rule out anything prematurely.1855 record for Patrick Donohoe's holding in Feaugh.
You can see the size, condition and rating of his house, barn and byre.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246925_00902.pdf)
Feaugh is in the Loughtree Upper Barony would have been 30km away from Feugh Bishops, in the Loughtee Lower Barony/Drumlane parish.
So unless I'm mistaken, not likely to be a match.
I am not personally familiar with Cavan and its social geography, so this is precisely the sort of double checking you need to do. ;)
In my own family most marriages were with the "Girl next door", or at least from the same or adjacent parishes. That said, though, there were exceptions, some surprising exceptions, that I was only convinced of by DNA matches appearing. Specifically a few marriages at 30 km distance in the 1830s by modest farming families. So 30 km is not out of the question if they were two farming families that would meet at a common market town. Remember that farmers had to frequent a market.
As a check, I would look in detail at spelling variations for the townlands, which you can find on logainm.ie (http://logainm.ie) and townlands.ie (http://townlands.ie)
In a tythe valuation of 1833, the civil parish of Drumlane is returned as part of the parish of Drumgood, so have to search the latter.Good find. Also a widow Maguire in Cruny (Creeny), same townland where William was born. Possibly a grandma or aunt?
Quite a few Maguires, see this search. Note in particular James in Drummullagh.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tln/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tln/)
Also one James Mcguire, in Feaugh (could be same person as above? - I don't know)Also a Pat Donohoe in Feaugh:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tlo/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tlo/)
I have not found census returns or naturalization returns in the US for John. Common name makes things difficult, especially in a big city.
I descend from James (1871). I have found his US/NY census returns from 1905-1950. As well as his 1900 marriage in NYC and his naturalization records. There's a nearly 30 year gap between his birth and 1900 though - I can't find him in any US census, and his US immigration year was listed as between 1889 and 1898 over the years. He applied for a certificate for arrival, but I don't think he ever got one and I haven't had much luck finding a passenger list record either.
My original plan was to get some more information on his siblings and other extended family in his home country might lend some clues to that 30 year gap.
But James does not appear on the list you provided a earlier? Is this not a complete list of the children?Yes, I had originally provided a list of children I would like to find more information on, as I did not much luck on them. I have found a lot of information on James (at least in the US) and I did find Terence's death record indicating he died at an early age.
I've only had significant luck with 1 of the 8 children. No 1901 census, marriage records, or obvious death records I could find.
So have you found 8 children?Yes, that's correct! Sorry about the confusion.
Yes, I must not have found any church records on RootsIreland when I had my subscription there.
Mary Anne Maguire - 1873 birth record, possible (but I think unlikely) death record, but I think it's another townland, really illegible, so I haven't 100% ruled it out
This death, on 2/8/1878?Yes, that was the one. I'm now thinking that's not probably not a match as they were still in Drummullagh at the time (at least until Oct 1880). Also the father was a farmer, and now I know there was a distinction between farmer and laborer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020501/7194092.pdf (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020501/7194092.pdf)
Daughter of a laborer, registered by a Bridget Maguire, present at death. Address Lagan
Lagan is in the civil parish of Drumlane
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/ardue/lagan/ (https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/ardue/lagan/)
Yes, that was the one. I'm now thinking that's not probably not a match as they were still in Drummullagh at the time (at least until Oct 1880). Also the father was a farmer, and now I know there was a distinction between farmer and laborer.
Lagan looks to be about 10-13km away from Drummullagh.
One fly in the ointment in this whole picture of William Maguire being a farmer in Drummullagh is that there is no Maguire or Donohoe there in Griffith's Valuation of 1857.I think that's expected. William was born in Creeny in 1845, and was listed as a resident of Creeny during his April 1868 marriage. I suspect they moved to Drummullagh after their marriage and before their first son was born in 1869.
Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out how to find primary Griffith's valuation records by townland.
Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out how to find primary Griffith's valuation records by townland.
Simple. Go to following site and search by place.
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ (https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/)
Yes helpful tip, I've been searching by townland/place to "audit" who is living where!Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out how to find primary Griffith's valuation records by townland.
Simple. Go to following site and search by place.
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ (https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/)
Also the brilliant options to search on GV is by Griffiths names when you can search at county level right down to townland with a surname or surname plus forename plus County plus townland or whatever you have.
Next to the names search is one called Griffiths Places. This is where magic happens. (I think!) You can often see where /how the girl/boy next door marriages that Wexflyer has referred to could happen - they lived in the same townland, went to the same market towns and worshipped at the same churches.
It shows the inhabitants.
So putting in Drummallagh and Cavan in the search field returns this list of inhabitants
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tlz/
then
Creeny
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tm0/
You can do similar on the National census......
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/
if you look under the Browse button. Ordinary searches will also do this but I sometimes use the browse funcion. Don't forget that Co Cavan has pieces of early Censuses such as 1821, 1841 & 1851. (many other counties have very sparse early census records)
Yes, that would be cool to see, unfortunately, I cannot seem to get the map links to load properly. The website just hangs for me. Tried on a few different computers and browsers too.
....